Phantom Braking on Electric Vehicles

www.nytimes.com...

The federal government’s main auto-safety regulator has opened a preliminary investigation into sudden braking by Tesla cars equipped with an advanced driver-assistance system that the company calls Autopilot.

The complaints claim that the vehicle “unexpectedly applies its brakes while driving at highway speeds,”

I wrote a post a couple of years ago and I can't find it.
I had asked a question about self driving cars and what happens when they hit a patch of ice or such or other unusual circumstances. I have a neighbor that lives on a curve and cars have gone straight into her front yard a few times. How would self driving vehicles prevent that? The black ice can be invisible.

The answer is THEY CAN'T!!!

I read a couple of articles about this Phantom braking and it is about the scariest thing you can imagine. They are investigating it, but
in some instances the car sees shadows or something that it perceives as a road blockage and WhammmooOOO, you are going to stop.
It doesn't matter that you are doing 75 on the highway with cars up your rear. I can think of a thousand scenarios that would cause a weird shadow. We have lots of birds of prey here, sometimes they just swoop down on the road. Sometimes there is a low flying plane, sometimes there are things by the side of the road that cast a weird shadow etc.

They are going to jack up gas and try to get everyone to get these EV and once again WE are the test subjects!!

a reply to: JAGStorm
After these shenanigans I will NEVER buy an ev.
F this sham and the ahole politicians that have delivered it.

a reply to: JAGStorm

This doesn't affect just self driving cars.

My mothers new Camry has "braking assist" and regularly sees a shadow and slams on her brakes on the same spot going up a hill near our house.

My fairly new car (Honda) also has "braking assist" and sometimes slams on the brakes at random times.

I've had it happen a couple of times on my car (not electric). Not sure what the issue with Teslas, but with the radar based adaptive cruise control and emergency braking systems, anything that blocks the radar could trigger a braking event. Specifically, I've had phantom braking on bridges/slight inclines. The road inclines just enough that it disrupts the radar and can cause the car to "tap the brakes".

It scares the sh!t out of you when it happens. I've had it happen maybe 5 times in 70,000 miles of ownership of the car.

I don't support self driving. People shouldn't be using those systems unless the roads are near perfect. I love my adaptive cruise control on road trips. However, I don't trust self driving where the car is steering.

If you don't want to drive, take a cab or uber imho.

a reply to: Edumakated

I don't support self driving. People shouldn't be using those systems unless the roads are near perfect. I love my adaptive cruise control on road trips. However, I don't trust self driving where the car is steering.

If you don't want to drive, take a cab or uber imho.

🚗🚓🚕🛺🚙🚌🚐🚎⚡🔥🚚🚒🚒💥💥💥

When an automatic function removes control of my vehicle from me, the manufacturer of the vehicle should accept responsibility, not me. Like that's going to happen.

a reply to: JIMC5499

The issue is that you aren't supposed to really give up control of the car. however, some people think these systems means they can stop paying attention, watch movies, sleep, etc. The tech is no where near that level yet and won't be for decades. Computers are in no way smart enough to process all the information we do and make decisions like we do as humans when driving imho.

When I use adaptive cruise control, I set the max speed and the car will hold say 80 mph. However, it can slow down and speed up on it's own if a car is in front of me and maintain a set distance. So if traffic slows to 50 mph, the car will slow on its own and then speed up as necessary.

Even using this system, I am constantly watching and driving like I would normally. These systems are not good enough to pick up road construction and all the other stuff that can happen while driving. Maybe it is because I ride motorcycles, but I am constantly looking for ways stuff can go wrong when driving. Blind spots. Observing other drivers and their behavior.

These self-driving systems cannot predict human behavior. For example, if I am driving and the lane next to me stops up but my lane is clear. I immediately turn off the ACC and cover my brakes. Why? Because I know from experience if you have a lane that is stopped / slowed, but another lane isn't.... some impatient driver is likely to try to jump out that lane and may not see you coming, you have to be extra vigilent.

a reply to: JAGStorm

I've owned a Tesla for about 3 years.

I have experienced the phantom braking occasionally. It typically happens at the same curve on the highway that I drive most days. The sensors seem to detect one of the lane dividers a few hundred yards ahead of the car and interpret it as a vehicle or some other object. It slows the car down (lets up on the accelerator) but doesn't actually apply the brakes. All you have to do is step on the accelerator to override the autopilot, or kick it out of autopilot. It isn't really a safety issue but it is annoying.

Teslas handle reduced traction on the roadway (ice, snow, water) quite well. They don't rely on the cameras, sonar, or radar to deal with it, so visual appearance makes no difference. Teslas, like almost all modern cars continuously monitor the rotation of all wheels and can detect when one or more are losing traction. They also have accelerometers on the car so they can tell whether the car is traveling in the direction the wheels are pointing. If it's not, they apply power or braking to the correct wheels to recover the car from spinning or sliding. The system reacts much faster than human reflexes and has successfully prevented many loss of control accidents in places with black ice, such as Canada in the winter time.

I also own a 2015 GMC pickup with "autopilot-like" features such as lane departure warning, obstacle ahead warning, etc. using all the same kind of sensors that Tesla uses. It also has occasional false alarms. This problem is not unique to electric vehicles.

a reply to: The2Billies

Can't you turn that crap off?

originally posted by: JAGStorm
They are going to jack up gas and try to get everyone to get these EV and once again WE are the test subjects!!

What does an EV have to do with autonomous driving? You can have one without using the other and autonomous driving isn't confined strictly to EV's.

originally posted by: chris_stibrany
a reply to: The2Billies

Can't you turn that crap off?

No

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: JAGStorm
They are going to jack up gas and try to get everyone to get these EV and once again WE are the test subjects!!

What does an EV have to do with autonomous driving? You can have one without using the other and autonomous driving isn't confined strictly to EV's.

You are right it is not exclusive to it but all roads lead to the same place, electric self driving vehicles.

originally posted by: JAGStorm
You are right it is not exclusive to it but all roads lead to the same place, electric self driving vehicles.

Not for the foreseeable future but I suspect that by the second half of this century they will be the majority.

a reply to: JAGStorm

the car sees shadows or something that it perceives as a road blockage and WhammmooOOO, you are going to stop.
It doesn't matter that you are doing 75 on the highway with cars up your rear

Remember the good old days when the guy with the High Beams behind you riding your tail and blinding you. People use to put up mirror panels to blind him back.

Now they'll replace those those mirrors with Black Panels instead and make them STOP!

originally posted by: The2Billies
No

Yeah, you can. The Honda CMBS can be either shut off completely after start or have its sensitivity lowered.

Lol
How will all the power for these electric go carts be generated?

Disgusting

a reply to: Bigburgh

Remember the good old days when the guy with the High Beams behind you riding your tail and blinding you. People use to put up mirror panels to blind him back.

There will be a whole generation that has no clue what that is!
It was like a superpower,

Blind me with your hi beams, I’ll just laser it back in your eyes! Buhahahahah

Electric? A bunch of cars do it now.
From the chevy trucks that thought it was a good idea to steer for you using your brakes, to the stupid Subaru outbacks that try and get you in a 12 car pileup by slamming on the brakes on the open road, I'm done with the retardation caused by over complicated computer systems.
Keep the gd computers out of cars. There's a point when tech is ridiculous and not needed. We've reached that point 10 years ago.
I can't stand what they are doing to cars.

You can have your automated driving, it's called a train or bus.
China disposable battery joe can suck one.
Mr.Remote shutoff, control freak, limit your travel, shower pervert traitor guy.

Op, amen, you always have some solid rants!

a reply to: Edumakated
My understanding of the OP was that these vehicles were doing this automatically even while under the driver's control. I don't trust machinery enough to just sit back and enjoy the ride.

a reply to: Bigburgh

I've always set my rear view mirror so that I have to move my head slightly to use it. That way I'm not surprised by those a$$holes. It also helps with the occasional State Trooper looking for an easy DUI arrest.