Decolonizing/Inclusion v Cultural Appropriation

So this morning, one of my blogs had this posted in their weekly meme and internet high strangeness humor post. The obvious joke is the idea of the headline.

1. The use of Latinx which so many Latinos reject, but apparently these ladies embrace (of course they do, they're vegan).

2. The idea that a culture which relies so heavily on meat in its comfort foods from abuela would suddenly uproot that culinary tradition to embrace veganism.

The general comment was "Good Luck".

But I was struck with a thought. The headline talks about "decolonizing" veganism. The idea is that it's something seen as mainly white and thus needs to be spread to other peoples and cultures that don't currently widely embrace it. Isn't this just a form of the cultural appropriation so much decried when whites embrace or try to embrace aspects of a culture not white?

So then I thought more and it occurred to me there are two terms for cultural appropriation by BIPOC peoples and other minority groups. On the one hand, you have "inclusive" which is where we supposedly make a thing more friendly to others by getting rid of certain aspects of it or erasing them. In the main, we're excluding stuff and thus excluding others as part of that thing, but that's really the point, isn't it, not including, but excluding. But it is still minority groups aimed at aspects of the dominant culture they label as white.

Then you have this new thing - decolonizing. That's the milder form. Basically, that's when the minority groups like an aspect of the dominant culture and want to appropriate it, but they can't call it cultural appropriation, so they call it decolonizing. They could call it making this or that more "inclusive", but they have no desire, as of yet, to exclude anyone or anything. They need to still create a critical mass of their own who embrace that thing to form a power base from which to carp and nag the rest to make whatever it is "inclusive".

Thoughts?

a reply to: ketsuko

Thoughts?

Confused.

Over complicating and making something out of a whole bunch of nothing.

It made my head hurt.

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: ketsuko

Thoughts?

Confused.

Over complicating and making something out of a whole bunch of nothing.

It made my head hurt.

It's what the racial crowd does best.

In a normal, sane world, this is what happens when you have people of different cultures living in close proximity. They assimilate and end up incorporating aspects of each others ways of doing things until you eventually have very little difference and one main culture.

These days, we have diversity and CRT and racial grievance, so they have to come up with fancy labels for every aspect of this process.

a reply to: ketsuko

Thoughts of mine are pretty Point Blank here:

This is the dying gasps of the Retard Generation, i.e the hacktivists realizing no one's #ing listening to them, not even their self-annointed poster-children "wards".

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: ketsuko

Thoughts?

Confused.

Over complicating and making something out of a whole bunch of nothing.

It made my head hurt.

I totally understand what OP was all about. I know what hurt you. It was that a white person dared to point out the ludicrousness of it all. The good news is that you don't need to participate in this thread if you don't want to. I don't think we should erase it just because you didn't understand the message*.


*[I know that you understood quite well, but you had to post something that steamrolls all over it without looking deliberate].

a reply to: Nyiah

Lord I hope so. I am so tired of reading fancy terms for everything when it's just a group of ladies wanting to spread veganism.

a reply to: ketsuko

It probably wouldn't hurt any of us to eat more vegetables, but I actually feel sick if I don't eat enough meat.

I don't see vegan food as something exclusively White. Vegans come in every color. Many traditional African meals are already vegan. The same with Asians, Latinos and other ethnicities. The vegan movement itself may be of White origins, but not most vegan meals.

I will never eat any of that processed fake meat they've been trying to get us to buy.

a reply to: ketsuko

Integration is to be encouraged....it helps society grow and develop.

Afro-Caribbean and Indian people have integrated into UK society and many aspects of their culture's have influenced British society and have become as 'British' as can be.
That's how it should be.
It prevents societies from becoming stale and stagnating.
When a society devotes all its energy on preserving the status quo it is on the verge of collapse....they need to continually grow, develop, adopt and evolve.

It is a natural process and occurs with time.

All these current fads are false and contrived and seek to force change.....which is as undesirable as resisting change.

I don't know if I've explained that well....or if its even relevant.

a reply to: tamusan

Yes, and there are plenty of ethnic cuisines that are far more vegetable heavy than Western and Latino cuisines tend to be. Part of it is that those countries tend to be poorer in their backgrounds. Some Asian cultures, for example, tend to have insect proteins because the peasants were that protein poor, not because bugs were their foods of choice, but naturally those cultures also feature lots of vegetables in their dishes.

a reply to: Hecate666

Ha ha ha.

What absolute utter bollocks.

Oh an this isn't a thread mainly to knock on veganism.

It's more about the bizarre realization that decolonizing a thing is the same as cultural appropriation. The only difference is which way the cultural sharing is flowing. The idea behind the terms always being that white people are greedy and don't want to share so they are either stealing from BIPOC cultures or hoarding what they have from BIPOC cultures who must take it by force.

a reply to: tamusan

I am with you, doc just talked to me about cutting back on red meat, I countered with ill up my veggie amounts but the meat stays and ill start exercising more. Honestly it feels like brain fog if I go to long without eating some red meat, having a nice medium rare always perks up the brain pan.

===========================================

On topic, it astounds me how many people still dont realize that ancient cultures traded much further abroad than we used to think.
So calling anything cultural appropriation is mind blowing to me.

a reply to: ketsuko

I've eaten insects by choice and out of curiosity. I found the recipes used to make what I've tried to be pretty good tasting. Insects have a nutty mushroom flavor to me. There was one kind of larvae that I thought tasted almost like bacon.

a reply to: Irishhaf

From the dawn of man human history has been all about one culture learning and 'borrowing' form other cultures.

If that wasn't the case we'd still be swinging through trees.

a reply to: Irishhaf

I've had that talk with my own physician. Since my IBS started, I've been like "Meat is just about the only thing I can eat now". To me, growing old is overrated anyway. I already have way too many aches and pains at 50. I'd hate to see what 80 would bring me. Reaching a very old age is mostly a benefit for the medical and pharmaceutical industries in my opinion.

a reply to: tamusan

I'm not opposed to trying insects in a recipe they are intended to be in, but I am very much opposed to the idea that we all need to be forced on to diets of bugs and fake meat in order to "save the planet", especially because I know the people who will still all fly around in their private jets will be doing no such thing.

a reply to: tamusan

Yep. My thoughts are that if it gives me a few extra years, but it makes all my remaining years largely joyless ... what is the point again?

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: Irishhaf

From the dawn of man human history has been all about one culture learning and 'borrowing' form other cultures.

If that wasn't the case we'd still be swinging through trees.

Tell that to the CRT folks like the ones making up fancy new terms like Latinx and now womynx.

a reply to: ketsuko

Like I said, it makes my head hurt trying to understand the reasoning behind it.

I hate to use the word 'progressive' because progress is to be desired....but I really don't get most of these new concepts and 'progressive' ways of thinking and ideas.
They are regressive and setting society back not helping to drive it forward in a positive and genuinely progressive manner. (Again, not sure if that made any sort of sense to anyone other than me).

a reply to: Freeborn

Oh it makes all kinds of sense.

In a way, it's like the drive to collectivize is fighting against the drive to be an individual, so we see them progressively subdividing into smaller and smaller drives and over-analyzing it all. Eventually, the smallest drive is the individual, and no one can adequately speak for the lived experience of anyone else.

Of course, none of them have gotten that far yet. They also want to security of the herd.