Why did Russia change strategy on Ukraine?

Was full scale always the plan or why the change from unconventional and proxy warfare like what we saw in 2014. I've also been reading that all what we've been seeing is more of a special forces operation is there in truth to that and if so what is the goal for such special forces?

a reply to: misterE12

On twatter - probably disinformation propaganda, but people are saying the Russians thought it was work ups/drills and had no idea that it was an actual invasion.

Again, probably disinfo, but who knows.

a reply to: Macenroe82

Do you think on social media we are seeing more pro Russia propaganda or more pro Ukraine?

a reply to: misterE12

Putin is basically repeating the same game plan he used on Georgia in 2008 of recognizing breakaway provinces, sending in troops, "cleansing" them of pro-western inhabitants, and making them Russian-friendly. What's different this time IMHO is that Zelensky was elected with a 73% majority to move Ukraine irretrievably into the orbit of the West. Putin's plan cannot work as long as Zelensky and a west-leaning government is in place. They have to decapitate the government. That's why they have to take Kyiv. They also have to take Odessa, as a minimum, to cut off Ukraine from any hope of resupply by sea. They might not have to take Ukraine all the way to the western border right away, but if they don't take it eventually then Ukraine can be resupplied from there.

The military actions that took place two days ago seem to me to be standard military actions, actually similar to what US forces did in Iraq. Begin with cruise and ballistic missile attacks on high-value fixed military targets like command and control centers, arms depots, military airports, troop barracks, radar installations, etc. That allows you to establish control of the airspace. Then follow up with special forces delivered by helicopter to locations you want to hold, ahead of the main invasion force. This is apparently what happened at Hostomel Airport near Kyiv on the first night. Rocket attack on the airport, special forces in at first light. Russia took control of the airport initially, but then lost it again to Ukranian forces. From what I hear, the main invasion forces have not made as much progress as quickly as they planned, so they didn't get there in time to support the special forces.

a reply to: 1947boomer

It's also helpful to note that Zelensky was backed by John Mccain, the war mongering malcontent.

It's also helpful to note that he directly emboldened Nazi, far right insurrectionists and then, himself, became a dictator, arresting his opponents and suppressing his people.

When Putin says he's going after Nazi's, he's actually not lying, Russians HATE Nazi's.

This is nowhere near as one sided as we're led to believe. I truly do think Putin thought he was doing something right. Though he's gone about it in the most ham-fisted way possible.

We should be looking at Israel anyway. That's where this all ends.

a reply to: 1947boomer
What are your thoughts on what would happen if this all goes Russia's way and what would happen if it does not. You brought up a lot of interesting things I feel dumb for not even thinking of the gulf War similarities with the missile strikes.

a reply to: misterE12
If it all goes Russia's way (and it probably will, militarily) they will achieve their political objectives of occupying the breakaway provinces, decapitating the current government, and demilitarizing Ukraine (i.e., destroying most of its formal military capability). Then their problems will begin. They will first have to maintain an occupying force. There's a standard ratio of one soldier per 40 civilians that's required to fully control a population. For Ukraine's 41 million population, that would require about 1 million troops and Russia only has about 20% or so of that number that could be spent on this venture. Clearly, Russia can't control all of Ukraine. That means they will be subject to a resistance, indefinitely, supplied by NATO and others. Russia will install a puppet government to sign treaties and endorse policies favorable to Russia, such as ceding Crimea to Russia. As economic and diplomatic sanctions proceed, Russia will become weaker in its ability to maintain its stranglehold on Ukraine; unable to pay soldiers, to repair high tech equipment, etc. The war will become more unpopular in Russia than it already is. Eventually, Russian troops will have to leave and the puppet government will fall. Again. A lot of people will have been killed in the process.

IMHO

There are nuclear disarmament agreements... when the USSR let go to become a union of not socialists; there were and are still armaments from that previous government.

Getting those armaments out of those other "statehoods" of whom they are not in control of their immigrations? Is imperative to not have them go missing or sold as those nuclear weapons are still theirs.

So of course diplomacy and getting those out of those other places in the "union" to a centralized location for the safety of all is important imagine a chain reaction effect if one were to detonate most of those statehoods in that union would be a nightmare.

Clinging to those things as a statehood even if it were in the US the centralized government wouldn't allow say the state of Maine to say oh hell no you can't have our warhead(s).

It would be the same situation... and such a thing MIGHT occur in the future when the US has to stick with those disarmament numbers as per the agreement. Arguing "states" rights? When it comes to those? States are not an individual without the federal. The idea of making corporations "people" is no different than when a "state" would want to do the same thing and neuter the entire federal government from power...

It's best to think of Moscow as one thinks of Washington D.C.

Putin thinks that he can invade any country he wants without consequences, which is why the West should give him consequences. Otherwise, he will just keep on pushing the boundaries.

originally posted by: Macenroe82
a reply to: misterE12

On twatter - probably disinformation propaganda, but people are saying the Russians thought it was work ups/drills and had no idea that it was an actual invasion.

Again, probably disinfo, but who knows.

If you got captured you would say the same....

a reply to: misterE12

Maybe Because their Intel is Better than the U.S. and it's Alleged Allies > ?

" Russian Strikes Targeting US-Run Bio-Labs in Ukraine? "


" Meanwhile, Russia for years has raised concerns over the prospect the US is developing biological weapons along its border, with Secretary of the Security Council of the Russian Federation Nikolai Patrushev claiming last year there were clear signs dangerous pathogens at the labs could be used for military, or political purposes. "


www.infowars.com...

Double post

Because The government of Russia gets money into its coffers directly from oil sales. In the United States most oil companies aremom-and-pop operations that own fewer than five wells. In Russia, all the money goes in to the government general fund. Low oil prices have been killing the Russian government. Its their primary export.

Nothing that Trump or Biden could do was going to forestall the invasion of Ukraine. Putin has been ramping up to this for years. In the past, him rattling sabers would get oil above $85-$100 a barrel. But the world got used to it; so now he had to invade to get the price over 105 a barrel. Russia is practically bankrupt, and Putin has been forced into this by economics.

He has been working on this since 2016, and working to limit fracking in the US. The cost to produce a barrel of Russian oil is $40. With fracking, the US cost is $36. If we were to actually export oil, we could sell it cheaper than the Russians can produce it themselves. And we have the volume to meet the world needs. So he has had groups like the Russia time he has been working on this since 2016, and working to limit fracking in the US. The cost to produce a barrel of Russian oil is $40. With fracking, the US cost is $36. If we were to actually export oil, we could sell it cheaper than the Russians can produce it themselves. And we have the volume to meet the world needs.

So he has had groups like the natural resources Defense council sue to stop fracking every place they can in the United States. Russian engineers still haven’t figured out how to frack, so they Have to “scare“ the price up.

originally posted by: Crowfoot
There are nuclear disarmament agreements... when the USSR let go to become a union of not socialists; there were and are still armaments from that previous government.

Getting those armaments out of those other "statehoods" of whom they are not in control of their immigrations? Is imperative to not have them go missing or sold as those nuclear weapons are still theirs.

So of course diplomacy and getting those out of those other places in the "union" to a centralized location for the safety of all is important imagine a chain reaction effect if one were to detonate most of those statehoods in that union would be a nightmare.

Clinging to those things as a statehood even if it were in the US the centralized government wouldn't allow say the state of Maine to say oh hell no you can't have our warhead(s).

It would be the same situation... and such a thing MIGHT occur in the future when the US has to stick with those disarmament numbers as per the agreement. Arguing "states" rights? When it comes to those? States are not an individual without the federal. The idea of making corporations "people" is no different than when a "state" would want to do the same thing and neuter the entire federal government from power...

It's best to think of Moscow as one thinks of Washington D.C.

I quoted the entire post , just to say this is exactly how it is .
Except the West and the UN ceded some of the Russian nuclear weapons to the Ukraine after Russia asked for ALL back .
And , the Ukrainians kept the Russian nuclear research and development facilities intact .

a reply to: misterE12 Putin himself lamented in his late night announcement Russia was entering Donbas , he wished he made the decision earlier, so all the time Biden was speculating that Putin had made up his mind , Biden was not reading the situation accurately.



What changed was 18-20 February, Monday/Tuesday Zelensky attended the Munich Security Conference where he threatened if the west did not protect Ukraine, then Ukraine would use nuclear weapons.
For Putin , this was the final straw.



Earlier in 2016, the G7 nations agreed to fund building a plant at Chernobyl to reprocess spent nuclear fuel rods on site.

G7 nations put up $51 million into the project and the EU contributed 730 million Euros. THE reprocessing facility chemically separated Plutonium from Uranium. In effect Ukraine amassed a large stockpile of Plutonium without much oversight.

When Zelensky threatened at Munich to acquire nuclear weapons, it was a clear threat to Russia.



In the largest parachute assault since WW2 Russia parachuted troops and IFV/ APC vehicles in the Chernobyl area

Like Mike Tyson once said "Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth."

a reply to: tovenar


Russia is not even affected by US sanctions. China still trades with Russia. it has massive cash reserves of $600.9 billion, compared with

US national debt(26 Feb 2022), of 30.151 billion (ie 30 trillion)

Currently US sanctions are destroying commerce in Europe, not Russia.










0



Russia's massive cash reserves

originally posted by: darkbake
Putin thinks that he can invade any country he wants without consequences, which is why the West should give him consequences. Otherwise, he will just keep on pushing the boundaries.

Of course he can. USA can't stop him.



When Biden phones Putin doesn't even answer the phone now

Putin is merely another puppet 'leader', same as the rest are. None actually lead the countries, they follow the real leaders commands, that's all for show, for us to believe as our 'leaders'. Useful puppets, named as 'leader', and that's about it.

Actual leaders of nations don't exist anymore. It's long ago, since that ever happened.

a reply to: Gothmog

The same conflict exists in "museum" antiquity from all over the world. Things considered priceless to humanities "past" UNESCO sites are the rebuilding and restructuring of those places so perhaps it's best to see those museums as vaults to house them until that sort of thing occurs?

News reported that the Baghdad museum was being thefted when it went under conflict but it was more likely to try to keep those safe; as only churches mosques temples etc are considered non strike zones in conflict... the Vatican vaults are just such a thing for the restoration of those areas bombed and lost during the first and second "wars".

Succession and succeeding "thrones" and marriages of royalty lineage and the wealth of that status in the "land" is all it is that has kept those conflicts going like a peacock raising its feathers where there is no snake when looked at.

Disneyland is a commonwealth and visited by people all over the world... a "kingdom" that inspires and builds instead of fights and destroys.

The response meant the UN and US were and are going to stay out of it as they are Russia's pows of the cold war and if they want them out of the Ukraine then that's what they are doing.

Back to the pineapple under the sea kids; nothing to see here.