Understanding the situation in Ukraine

Usually when I title a thread like this one, it's because I've written a detailed breakdown on a certain subject, but this time I'm the one seeking help to understand the situation in Ukraine. I don't really know much about Ukraine or its history, so why is Putin so obsessed with Ukraine? Does he want to make Ukraine a part of Russia or does he just perceive them as a threat, and if so what has Ukraine done to provoke the recent missile strikes?

I find it kind of strange how Biden's intelligence arm warned of these attacks quite some time before they happened. Like most people I didn't really take the warning seriously because they never seem to pan out, plus I don't have a high amount of trust in the Biden admin. Tell too many lies and eventually people will ignore you even when you are telling the truth. Having said that, something about this whole thing still feels a bit contrived to me.

Today when I visited YouTube all of the news was about Ukraine, there wasn't a single video about Covid-19, which surprised me because I haven't seen that in a very long time. It feels like the narrative is being very carefully controlled by the media, perhaps because they want to take our focus off something else. In fact it wouldn't surprise me if even Russia was playing along with some larger agenda, nothing really surprises me any more.

One thing I do know is the left really doesn't like Putin so we need to take everything they say with a grain of salt. But that doesn't mean the right should support everything Putin does or look past his authoritarian traits. Lets be honest, the man is a bit of a dictator, but I never viewed him as a person who would start needless wars or conflicts. Putin worked with Trump to help resolve the situation in Syria and take it back from terrorists.

I'm seeing a lot of blame being thrown around, some say it's Biden's fault for being so weak, but ultimately Putin made the decision, and we need to fully understand why he made that decision and we also need to understand how much the MSM is distorting the truth. Biden may appear old and weak, but lets remember Biden was VP to Obama when they created the mess in Syria and Libya along with Hillary Clinton as secretary of state.

They carried out massive drone strike campaigns across the Middle East and helped spark many unnecessary conflicts. It seems to me many of these establishment politicians are actually war hawks and we would be foolish to soon forget that fact. For the last several weeks it seems to me the MSM has been drooling at the prospect of war in Ukraine. Which is why I must ask what the real agenda is, we need to look beyond the surface level.

a reply to: ChaoticOrder


Biden went on record to state that he wouldn't send any support to Ukraine.

He basically gave Russia the go ahead.

He did so because the revelations from the Durham Report had the power to floor his fraudulent administration.

So Russia went ahead with their plans which was never a secret to begin with.


Suddenly, no more news coverage of the one thing that threatened their grip on power.

The one thing that had the ability to restore sanity to a crazy world.

I think it's multifaceted and will concentrate on one aspect that tends to get overlooked by most commentators in the current discussion. The religious/spiritual reawakening and/or rebranding of Russia. By my formulation it should be clear that I am myself at a loss to understand how much of that is just a cynical use of religion for geopolitical means and how much of it goes deeper.

Ukraine is central to the eastern/Russian orthodox church. The conflict led to a schism.

The following is from a post I made in a different thread on ATS:



Then there is the symbolism of the Main Cathedral of the Russian Armed Forces which opened less than two years ago. A bit too close to potential future religious fundamentalism for my taste - though visually admittedly stunning.
link

And in 2017:
Russian Orthodox Patriarch Warns of End-time Apocalypse

After a November 20 service at Moscow’s Christ the Savior Cathedral, Patriarch Kirill said, “One must be blind not to see the approach of the terrible moments of history about which the apostle and evangelist John the theologian spoke in his Revelation.”

Other Orthodox leaders have been even more bold in their condemnation of the West generally, and of the United States specifically.
Archpriest Vsevolod Chaplain went as far as to infer that Russia’s God-given mission was to stop America. “It is no coincidence that we have often, at the price of our own lives … stopped all global projects that disagreed with our conscience, with our vision of history and, I would say, with God’s own truth,” he told Interfax in 2014. “Such was Napoleon’s project; such was Hitler’s project. We will stop the American project too.”
Once the Russian Orthodox Church defeated American secularism, Chaplain explained, Russia would assume its rightful, leading role in the world.
Russian political analyst, strategist and philosopher Aleksandr Dugin sees Russian President Vladimir Putin as an Eastern Orthodox czar, warring against the forces of the antichrist in an apocalyptic struggle.
Putin is our “katechon,” Dugin told Catholic News Service, referring to “the figure mentioned by St. Paul in his writings concerning the end of time.” The Greek word katechon is used in 2 Thessalonians 2:6-7 to describe a force that holds back the “mystery of iniquity.” In Dugin’s worldview, this “mystery of iniquity” is a secularizing force at work in Western countries, and Putin is the leader preventing the coming of the antichrist.
“We consider this a holy war,” Dugin said.

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

One thing I do know is the left really doesn't like Putin so we need to take everything they say with a grain of salt. But that doesn't mean the right should support everything Putin does or look past his authoritarian traits.

Who on the right is cheering Putin on?


Speaking for myself, I do not support what Putin is doing. I've called him a dictator on a thread I made yesterday.

However it is important to note that Putin hasn't changed.


The situation in the West has changed with our weak, compromised leadership left a power vacuum which in turn emboldened Putin to act with impunity.

Therefore Biden is directly responsible for this mess.


As you know:

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

Perhaps you shouldn't be encouraging the false narrative that conservatives are in support of Putin.

a reply to: 19Bones79

Who on the right is cheering Putin on?

This is not about politics .
This is about history , both past and recent .
If you like , you can add me to the "right " but I am not cheering Putin on .
Just I know , and accept knowing , history .

Here and there I see voices that claim that the whole Ukraine crisis is basically a scripted globalist event including Putin acting his assigned part. I wouldn't exclude that either. What better event to strip populations in east and west of freedoms and push through otherwise unpopular measures?

a reply to: 19Bones79

The situation in the West has changed with our weak, compromised leadership left a power vacuum which in turn emboldened Putin to act with impunity.

Therefore Biden is directly responsible for this mess.

Like I said, I don't necessarily think this is a great conclusion, because as I pointed out Biden is no stranger to war. Quite frankly I think Biden is starting to lose the plot and that makes him even more dangerous. Plus I'm sure Biden gets offended by being constantly called weak, he prefers to be seen as a head honcho type of guy, and he could lash out to prove he isn't weak. Putin surely knows that the west is aligned with Ukraine against him, which is another reason I find these missile strikes strange, especially if there was no good justification for the strikes. Could be Putin just testing the waters to see how the world reacts or something deeper is going on here.

a reply to: Gothmog

This is about history , both past and recent .

Its not just history, its control.

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

Biden is no stranger to war

If by war you refer to Iraq, Afghanistan or Syria I put it to you that it wasn't a war but rather a venture for Western companies to turn a profit on the back of human misery.


An actual war, with an opponent capable of hitting back hard is something Biden chooses to not get involved with.

Quite frankly I think that Biden is starting to lose the plot

The plot is to collapse the United States, and he is hitting his targets every day.

Putin surely knows that the west is aligned with Ukraine against him

The West abandoned Ukraine in its hour of need faster than Biden abandoned American citizens in Afghanistan while accepting unvetted 'refugees' which pose an actual threat to the United States.

which is another reason I find these missile strikes strange,

Because you skim over it when I write that Biden's 'leadership' left a power vacuum in the West which emboldened Russia.

Could be Putin just testing the waters to see how the world reacts or something deeper is going on here.

Putin is showing his pal Xi just how weak the west has become. He took the first risk and it has proven to be a good one for him because now the real big dog will waltz in and take whatever territories they want.

When China starts to move Biden has shown that he will not act.

And if he is stupid enough to engage China(exactly what they want) Putin won't stop until he reaches Finland.

Do you think a Biden administration is capable of handling Russia and China on two separate fronts?

a reply to: 19Bones79

The narrative still doesn't make sense in my mind because I don't see Putin approving air strikes just for the hell of it. If fits their narrative of evil Russia far too nicely and the media is loving it. Like I said, something about this whole thing feels very contrived and controlled.

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

Shrugs…

Medvedev Doctrine

The 2008 war was the first time since the fall of the Soviet Union that the Russian military had been used against an independent state, demonstrating Russia's willingness to use military force to attain its political objectives.[289] The failure of the Western security organisations to react swiftly to Russia's attempt to violently revise the borders of an OSCE country revealed its deficiencies. The division between Western European and Eastern European nations also became apparent over the relationship with Russia. Ukraine and other ex-Soviet countries received a clear message from the Russian leadership that the possible accession to NATO would cause a foreign incursion and the break-up of the country. Effective takeover of Abkhazia was also one of Russia's geopolitical goals.[290] The construction of the EU-sponsored Nabucco pipeline linking Europe with Central Asian reserves through Transcaucasia was averted.[291]

The war in Georgia showed Russia's assertiveness in revising international relations and undermining the hegemony of the United States. Shortly after the war, Russian president Medvedev unveiled a five-point Russian foreign policy. The Medvedev Doctrine stated that "protecting the lives and dignity of our citizens, wherever they may be, is an unquestionable priority for our country". The presence of Russian citizens in foreign countries would form a doctrinal foundation for invasion. Medvedev's statement on the existence of territories with Russian "privileged interests" attached to them underlined Russia's particular stake in the post-Soviet states and the fact that Russia would feel endangered by subversion of local Russia-friendly administrations.[292]

en.m.wikipedia.org...

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

Today when I visited YouTube all of the news was about Ukraine, there wasn't a single video about Covid-19, which surprised me because I haven't seen that in a very long time. It feels like the narrative is being very carefully controlled by the media, perhaps because they want to take our focus off something else.

Do you not feel that what is happening now far outweighs any other story including the pandemic ? , the current situation is far more serious which is why everybody is paying attention to it , if ever there was a chance of a Nuclear exchange we are fast approaching it.

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

How many countries from the West do you suppose will flex against Russia after Putin has shown that use of missiles are not an issue AND he has stated that any military interference will result in the deployment of Russias nuclear arsenal?



They are going with what they perceive as heavy sanctions (laughable) when China will simply step in and supply Russia.

When China starts to annex new territories the West won't do anything about it because if they do China will stop supplying them with everything they have come to depend on from China.

China will then convert the western factories in their country to their wartime effort.

The West will have no choice but to create wartime economies withun their own countries which will take a lot of time.

It will also allow the West to usher in their globalist totalitarian state which is exactly what they wanted since the launch of covid onto the world.

You will not allowed to have a dissenting opinion in the west as you will be branded a terrorist.




Still not seeing the writing on the wall?

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

If you've got time over the weekend have a look at the following link;

Off-Guardian

On the top banner they have a Ukraine link to all of the articles they have written or third party published. It is extensive.

I have no doubt you're smart enough to realise the truth behind this story is not the one currently being peddled, I'm not saying you need 3D glasses to see it, but there are more than a few vines to cut out of the way.

originally posted by: Gothmog
a reply to: 19Bones79

Who on the right is cheering Putin on?

This is not about politics .
This is about history , both past and recent .

History without politics?

In which reality?

a reply to: Gothmog

The reality is, is that the world is a ugly place no matter how much paint we put on the face. Power moves, leveraging are a part of everyones daily lives, life is a competition sport. Installed "democracy" is merely a brand name, it just means influenced by a western power.

In my opinion there isn't much difference in taking over an area and buying influence with other's money. There is less immediatary death, but in the long run the people that are supposed to be helped generally don't benefit beyond the economic insentives. They may get some new public infrastructure, but mostly just a select few benifit. They label it democracy or diplomacy, but the select few make mutually beneficial deals usually at the expense of the public they are supposed to represent.

That's is not to say that Putin's actions are not wrong, just applying some relativity. Until everyone acknowledges what we are as a species we will never overcome our short comings. The situation I present exists in everyones lives every day. Anytime grouping amongst people occurs a select few reak the most benefit. Amongst family groups, friends, companies, states, countries position leveraging occurs.

People are creatures of advantage. Society breeds compromise, compromise breeds the compromised.

originally posted by: 19Bones79

originally posted by: Gothmog
a reply to: 19Bones79

Who on the right is cheering Putin on?

This is not about politics .
This is about history , both past and recent .

History without politics?

In which reality?

Go back and read my post again .
Try a little of this thing called comprehension .

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

If you look at a map of the military shelling, where explosions were reported in the Ukraine it lines up pretty close with the location of US bio weapon research labs in the Ukraine.

The machinations going on are positively Machiavellian.

a reply to: ChaoticOrder

I'm glad you made this post , I was going to ask the same question .

Why exactly is Putin invading Ukraine what is his end goal here ?

I read through this whole post there is no clear answer , and all the MSM says is he is a Bully I'm pretty sure the situation is a little more complicated than Putin being a bully .

sorry messed up the quote

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

originally posted by: 19Bones79
a reply to: ChaoticOrder


maybe that's exactly what Putin is thinking

I don't agree with armed conflict at all , there should always be a political dialogue before going into armed conflict.
It seems its been a long time coming and as you said Biden gave Russia the chance to do some of their own "humanitarian efforts" in foreign nations.