US and Russia show down

originally posted by: nugget1
a reply to: noscopebacon

When the Ukraine was part of the USSR it had large stoke piles of chemical weapons and nuclear missiles, they were apparently all destroyed but anyone that knows how the real world works know that at least one nuke was tucked away somewhere and that the knowledge on chemical weapons from use to manufacture still exists in the Ukraine and wouldnt be hard to do a crash program to make VX or something similar with very little trouble.

Russian had nuclear weapons in Ukraine; in 1991 Ukraine declared its independence and Russia removed all of their nuclear weapons. I'll bet they got them all, and removed the technology needed to make and use them at the same time.

it is pretty well known that factories in the us that make cores had 10's of pounds of weapons grade Plutonium and HEU just from the air filters that went unaccounted for for like 5 years.

the only reason they found it was when they went to change the filters the detectors went off the scale and when the oxygen hit the pure plutonium it started a plutonium fire as it is pyrophoric(will start on fire by its self) in oxygen.

The RTG use an isotope of plutonium made into cubes that glow red hot for YEARS and to get plutonium red hot it has to be well over the melting point of most other metals, its from the radiation and decay heat.

So back on track there were multiple bombs worth of metal and turning from machining it that just went missing and that was in the US.

no imagine what happened to the dust and turning in a failed USSR satellite that the US had to come in and help clean it up as it started showing up in the black market.


you only need a baseball sized sphere of plutonium and a bit bigger for uranium for a bomb.

i don't for one second believe that the USSR in its collapse even now is able to account for all the weapons grade material that was 'misplaced'.

Building a nuke isn't that hard the hard part is getting the pure and right isotopes, but if they are already provided i don't see why Ukraine couldnt build a nuke granted it might not be in the megaton range but big enough to wipe out a Russian base or masses of troops.

and that is assuming they only have one.

I just don't believe the USSR in 1992 had the money or ability too confirm all cored and Pu rods were reacclimated back to some place in the USSR.

even when the USSR turned in to the Russian Federation in the 90's had to turn to the US to make sure the science/scientists stayed in Russia and the US buy putting them in to things like RosCosmos and NASA etc.

there are still RTG's out there unaccounted for that granted couldnt make a nuke but could make a very nasty dirty bomb.

of they could use their medical isotopes to make dirty bombs.


I hope and pray that cooler heads prevail in this situation, they almost have to if we don't want to see a new all encompassing war in Europe.

Russia can freeze out the EU by tuning of the LNG lines and drive the price up so high people wont be able to heat their houses and that's why Germany has already said they wont have any part in a NATO invasion.

the thing that worries me is the state of Ukraine rather than Russia we are pumping Ukraine full of potent advanced weaponry and the skills to use them effectively and they are ready to go any day every second. One miscalculation by one side or the other and it goes from pop shots to total war.

the world hasn't seen total war for over 100 years(WW l) where every weapon system is on the table and that like Israel i think the current power structure would rather level Ukraine themself than let Russia have it. Be it from nukes, dirty bombs and chemical weapons.

at that point what do they have to lose?


there is nothing more that i want for this to be a 'dud'. But Russia is talking very matter of factly and that leave very little room for negotiations or whatever to calm everything down.

we have created a military in the Ukraine that is just waiting to pull the trigger that is what i worry about not Russia.


if Russia wanted to flatten the Ukraine the would have already and i think Putin is seeing what his people are saying about all this and if they give him the thumbs up for 'salami' slicing the region it will be again like WWl bloody trench fighting and devastating weapons used in civilian areas.

a reply to: noscopebacon
I'm pretty sure the outcome was already decided long before it began to play out in the media.
People have a really short attention span and were getting awfully bored with the lockdowns- to the point of getting rather vocal, and Canadians actually organized a protest. A distraction was desperately needed, Ukraine was picked ( while crickets on Myanmar, which is just as bad- if not worse- and has an even larger population) and it worked. We're slowly being segwayed into a new, even more scary version of Covid on the horizon.

I served in Uncle Sam's Army as a combat engineer (sapper, pioneer - glorified infantry) in the waning years of the Cold War. My unit, 82nd Engineer Battalion, operated out of Bamberg, Germany in support of armored forces primarily tasked with patrolling the Czech border. Again, this was in the closing years of the Warsaw Pact, which included then communist Czechoslovakia.

Even though my unit was mechanized (M-113 APC), we were dismounted for actual patrolling along the border. Or, at least, this was the case in the one instance where we deployed that far forward in support of 2/2Cav.

It was the execution of this duty that provided the opportunity to observe, at distance, Soviet infantry operating with Czech counterparts on the border's opposing side. My experiences along this dismal, fortified stretch were... eye-opening... and played a major role in shattering/reshaping my pitifully naive worldview.

The preceding blather, I'm afraid, served (with apologies) as mere context framing for the following statement:
The absolute LAST adversary America, or any other country, wants to face on a battlefield is RUSSIA.

No, I am not a Russian shill, not pro-Putin or anti-Ukraine. I am completely devoid of emotional weight concerning the ongoing situation. Intellectually, I'm generally opposed to war as should be anyone with a functional brain and trace of empathy. But, otherwise, I'm as apathetic as one can be regarding the organized slaughter of competing humans without crossing fully into psycho-sociopathic territory.

My statement, or warning as it were, is based on direct observational experience, extensive training with Russia as likely opponent and extensive knowledge of military history, specifically Russia's entries therein. It's these sources, not personal bias, that serve as impetus, nothing more. But, anyone well-studied in wars involving the Russian people will agree that this knowledge, in and of itself, would easily support my contention. No direct experience necessary...

The Russian people, as a generalized whole, have an innate, unparalleled resilience that enables functional survival in the most unimaginable extremes found on Earth. Be the threat natural - lethally hostile temperatures, impassable terrain, deadly crags, ect., - or man-made - war, famine, pestilence, addiction, ect., - these people simply... PERSIST. And in so doing they will often reshape some facets of the actual threat itself, warping it to either detriment or advantage for reasons that I find inscrutable.

EXAMPLE 1
Here, we Americans are losing a war on opioid addiction, and losing horribly. Which, should come as no surprise given the deck is too often stacked by the very bastards supposedly waging our side of the battle. Most infamously, specific focus has justifiably centered on doctor-perscribed or street-sourced narcotic painkillers. Naturally, the illegal market in the US for painkillers is vast and omnipresent but fraught with risks of every sort.

In Russia, however, opioid painkillers are readily accessible sans prescription, typically sold off the shelf in blister packs like one would expect of cough drops or allergy pills elsewhere. So, it would be more than reasonable to assume that Russia has its own issues with opioid abuse. It would be reasonable, yes, but not entirely accurate.

Not being content with mere dependency on an easily obtained narcotic, Russians decided to up the stakes, or more accurately, go all in on the addiction gamble. Legally purchased pain pills are processed together with various industrial-grade chemicals to create a drug as unique to Mother Russia as ushanka-hats, barynya dancing and matryoshka dolls - a caustic chemical party favor fondly referred to as krokodil

Preferred method of intake is injection (of course, because Russia) and the acidic contents are equivalent to battery acid replete with all the gruesome side-effects one would expect from flooding the circulatory system with industrial pollutants. I recommend the morbidly curious browse the Google image results of keyword krokodil - at your own risk, of course.

EXAMPLE 2
The next reference more exemplifies the overall tenacity and sheer superhuman degree of resilience in the face of unspeakable horrors. The erudite need only three words to immediately grasp the full unholy depths of suffering and unthinkable lengths of desperation that the Russian population has endured: Siege of Leningrad. No better illustration can be offered to galvanize my claim than the following small fragment of the hellish whole. At the height of the seige, beset on all sides by carnage, disease and, above all else, famine, mothers would swap offspring to avoid the unpleasantries of eating one's own child.

Suffer no delusion, the cultural will that enables such survival of the unimaginable by means unthinkable is still very much an ingrained and accessible trait of the modern Russian people. All challengers be thus warned...

a reply to: noscopebacon
I don't think they're trying to take the Ukraine, not this time round.
They intend to take the eastern sliver, the new equivalent of the Sudetenland, and not back off from it.
When it is obvious that they can ignore the sanctions and nobody is going to launch a nuclear counter-attack, Biden will look defeated.
He needs to do something really brutal, like un-following Putin's Twitter account.

The US will sacrifice whatever European vassal state economies necessary and it will fight to the last Ukranian

a reply to: khnum

Of course, Putin is blameless, I suppose?

a reply to: Oldcarpy2

Nice attempt to bait, at the nation state level there isn't good guys and bad guys there are just varying degrees of bad guys fighting for the food on the table but as this covid thing has demonstrated despite differences they all sit at the same table.Putin has some legitimate greviances but his solution doesn't exactly gel with international law.

a reply to: ChayOphan

i was a PJ for 3 years

no longer in


i have been to Russia and im sorry i have to disagree with you.

They are in just as much as or worse of a situation with drugs and poverty, surviving is not thriving.


the American military has just been pussified with SJW's and other wiedos starting to refresh the ranks, i mean all you have to do is look at the new recruiting ads for all the branches


Russians are just born to expect nothing and anything else is great. In america we expect the world and cant hardly get along with out internet

Russia is one of the most corrupt nation, they are run much like up by the upper .001% like oil oligarchs and people in the Duma are usually there for a very long time.


again all that being said the US military has some of the best equipment and resources and training, when i was training for Para it took YEARS before i got my patch because all we did was train and train, granted i did fight but i was still training.

I was had the occasion to be put with other branches like the Navy and Army as a medic and forward observer. dont get me wrong but our 'tip of the spear' could and has crushed Russian forces or proxy forces.

Russia would think nothing of using their regular troops and mechanized units as shields(more than they already are) or even use them in a false flag to whip up the Russian civilian base, like the FSB blowing up that apartment complex and blaming it on Chechnya .

Putin doesnt have to invade at this point they have made their point and got their gas pipeline going and now the world KNOWS Vlad will invade if pushed to hard.

i don't take anything he says as baseless threats, in fact he has been proven time and time again to carry out political assassinations and crushing opposition(Chechenia and ex Russian FSB/KGB defectors)

at this point with the wests interference in Russian business and us threating their only warm water port in the regon is enough for most nations to go to war.

he is just waiting for Old Joe to trip over his own feet and make it look like Russia HAS to defend its self from a US ground invasion or even just the wests need to mess with other peoples governments as a threat to Russia.

The US as much as i hate to say it is the bad guy in this situation, we are arming so called rebels with advanced weaponry and usurping governments and moving in even more us controlled weapons like THAAD batteries


if something pops off there we might for the first time after pearl harbor see attacks inside the US or our bases in other countries

a reply to: noscopebacon

Your second sentence announces your opposition to my claims, yet every word thereafter is nothing but supportive. Possibly I'm misreading intent? Wouldn't be the first time...

At any rate, I'm in full agreement with your assessment of modern American military training and readiness. And, believe me, this reality brings me no pleasure to acknowledge. I experienced the early stages of this intentionally induced shame spiral during the last year of my service. In fact, watching what I felt was a purposeful coring of the Army's soul was largely responsible for my ETS. I initially joined the Army to be part of something for which I could be proud. I wasn't about to remain if my future service would instead cause me shame.

It's fairly obvious now that most, if not all, of the chaos and strife defining our "new normal" is by careful design. With little difficulty, one can now look backward through history and clearly see pieces clicking together in seamless forward progression right up to the present. A glance ahead is equally informative with little effort. A comprehensive objective view of the entire picture, while more difficult, isn't impossible though it certainly gives little reason for hope.

a reply to: ChayOphan

i agree in general

but for different reasons.


i think Putin is a very smart man, remember he was upper crust KGB.

He knows he can freeze the EU out or break their backs finically with the fact they control natural gas for the most part.

all the rest of it Americans are built well but alot of people get their minds twisted by various agendas that makes them soft, Russia doesnt allow that kind of stuff and i am by no means against gay guys or lesbians but all the rest is mental illness flat out.

problem. reaction. solution. really applies here there are pieces being moved around the world and we are in the final steps of that plan.

as mush as people don't like David Icke here is a clip from 2015!! and he nailed it on the head




hopefully the fact old joe can hardly speak will save the world via his incompetence

originally posted by: nugget1
a reply to: noscopebacon

When the Ukraine was part of the USSR it had large stoke piles of chemical weapons and nuclear missiles, they were apparently all destroyed but anyone that knows how the real world works know that at least one nuke was tucked away somewhere and that the knowledge on chemical weapons from use to manufacture still exists in the Ukraine and wouldnt be hard to do a crash program to make VX or something similar with very little trouble.

Russian had nuclear weapons in Ukraine; in 1991 Ukraine declared its independence and Russia removed all of their nuclear weapons. I'll bet they got them all, and removed the technology needed to make and use them at the same time.

i believe it was bill that made that deal.