Possibly the best discussion on addiction ever

I recently read an interview with a famous musician who had been sober for over 20 years after kicking a near gram per day heroin habit. He said that in rehab, you'll hear a million 'addiction platitudes' about spirituality, love, and "the journey". He said the majority of the sayings were corny, but a couple of the sayings stuck with him, and actually helped him realize the situation.

“Be stronger than your strongest excuse.”
“If you are facing in the right direction, all you have to do is keep on walking. That's it.”
One of his favorite quotes is quite funny, but he said it's accurate: "A drunk will steal you wallet, then apologize. An addict will steal your wallet, then help you look for it."


The interviewer spoke of this YT video as being the best ever addiction discussion. It features two scientists from Stanford School of Medicine.
Dr. Anna Lembke, MD, is the Director of the Stanford Addiction Medicine Dual Diagnosis Clinic at Stanford University School of Medicine.
Andrew Huberman is a professor in the Department of Neurobiology at the Stanford University School of Medicine.

It's a long video, but worth watching. Addiction is still a very misunderstood subject, and these people shed some light.



A trillion dollar "industry":
What the U.S. spends on drug addiction

Why it's best not to tempt fate to begin with if at all possible. Harder with prescription drugs, but more possible with the recreational substances. Once you get started, stopping is near impossible.

originally posted by: ketsuko
Why it's best not to tempt fate to begin with if at all possible. Harder with prescription drugs, but more possible with the recreational substances. Once you get started, stopping is near impossible.

I had a hard core alcoholic friend who finally quit after being legally drunk on a daily basis for probably 30 years. Everything was a reason to "pour one". If he was sad, he drank as a 'pick-me-up'. If he was happy, he drank to celebrate. One time he was celebrating the launch of the space shuttle he saw on the news.

ETA: He had good nicknames for booze.
Danger juice
Who-hit-John
Sanity restorer
Tennessee truth tonic

originally posted by: ColeYounger

originally posted by: ketsuko
Why it's best not to tempt fate to begin with if at all possible. Harder with prescription drugs, but more possible with the recreational substances. Once you get started, stopping is near impossible.

I had a hard core alcoholic friend who finally quit after being legally drunk on a daily basis for probably 30 years. Everything was a reason to "pour one". If he was sad, he drank as a 'pick-me-up'. If he was happy, he drank to celebrate. One time he was celebrating the launch of the space shuttle he saw on the news.

ETA: He had good nicknames for booze.
Danger juice
Who-hit-John
Sanity restorer
Tennessee truth tonic

Funny names...LOL.

After 30 years, how was your friend able to quit? Was there a method or AA route, etc.?
Asking for a friend....named Jack!

a reply to: ronjer

He started by cutting down drastically, then would skip a day or two. He worked up to going longer periods, and I think he did a whole month (the 'sober October' thing) That was about 4-5 years ago. He never did AA or anything like that.
He can't stand the "preachy reformed alcoholics".

He will still have a drink sometimes. He has booze at his house, but he just does a shot now and then. He did have two on Christmas. He'll never do more than two. 90% of the time, just one shot. Since he only has a "bracer" now and then, it's always the really good stuff.

I was at house about a week ago. He asked if I wanted a shot of "Holy Water". I had one, he didn't!

When investigating the drug problem in the US you're forced to face the fact that it's allowed to continue. If just a fraction of the money were spent to control the flow of drugs into the country drug use would become a barely significant problem.

It's a proven fact that the vast majority of drugs in the US are imported directly and indirectly from China.
7 out of 10 shipping containers at US ports come from China, with only 3-10% of them actually being inspected. China provides Mexican cartels with supplies to manufacture Fentanyl and Meth.

Drug addiction in the US is by design, and like war it creates wealth for the higher echelons.

a reply to: ColeYounger

Human life is all about addiction. The constitutional right to the pursuit of happiness is a precursor to addiction. Nobody would really accept an equal measure of unhappiness with any amount of happiness they may acquire. If one would not like to call their pursuit of happiness addiction, then it will definitely be found to be obsession.

All drugs that are abused for pleasure possess profound medicinal qualities. One problem with their misuse is that they have become “sacraments” of underground subcultures. A subculture of people defined by emotional problems. The medicines then have to be acquired and distributed within this sub group of people. Scarcity, cost and adulteration of the medicines then become the rule. Not to mention criminalization and forced association with those whose emotional problems are at the most extreme and who have become let’s say, grossly evil.

But I don’t consider the medicines themselves to be evil. It is extreme need which corrupts.
That need is not really caused by poverty, although it is the poor and underprivileged who seek out the substances that afford them relief from their suffering. Prohibition will never have any effectiveness towards eliminating addiction.

People with complex injuries to their emotional bodies is the collateral damage of the civilization we have known. It is natural to seek homeostasis when there is an imbalance in the human system (or in any biological system).

The most obvious way of healing the emotional illness is through prevention - that a new society has to be created where the young are the most valuable product that a human society can create.

I do believe that in the mean time it would be possible to use some of these medicines, which through misuse and cultural misappropriation have caused addiction, to actually heal the injuries to the emotional body. If not completely heal, then generate the healing process whereby other therapies can be applied.

The three most promising medicines in this respect that I see used under a therapeutic construct would be some form of opiate, mescaline and psilocybin.

But much better to reconstruct society instead.

a reply to: ColeYounger

I like this one.

Your mind is like a bad neighborhood, you don't want to go in there alone.

Sober 32 years here, I think. I don't really keep count but my cousin who I used to party with does and he has a year more than me.

originally posted by: nugget1
When investigating the drug problem in the US you're forced to face the fact that it's allowed to continue. If just a fraction of the money were spent to control the flow of drugs into the country drug use would become a barely significant problem.

It's a proven fact that the vast majority of drugs in the US are imported directly and indirectly from China.
7 out of 10 shipping containers at US ports come from China, with only 3-10% of them actually being inspected. China provides Mexican cartels with supplies to manufacture Fentanyl and Meth.

Drug addiction in the US is by design, and like war it creates wealth for the higher echelons.

Sadly America has a President that follows the higher echelons quite well for his son.

I partied my ass off growing up. I've done all kinds of stuff. I started cigarettes when I was 9, and was smoking so much I was allowed to smoke by the time I turned 12 because whoever was in charge of me knew I would not stop no matter how much I was punished. Hardest thing by far I ever stopped was smoking cigarettes. NOTHING is as hard to kick as cigarettes. This is from someone who has had a couple spine surgeries and other major surgeries where I have spent extended periods of time on high doses of morphine, oxy, valium, xanax all from doctors. I have also done a bunch of recreational drugs in my life.

I tried hypnosis, patch, plastic smoker thing, pills, and many other gimmicks to quit cigarettes. I tried to quit and failed at least 50 times. Sometimes lasting months.

Here is what solved my addiction problem. I got extremely pissed off one day about it. I started ranting and bitching about how these ************* are able to legally sell something that makes you physically crave it. I realized I always had something to blame and my scapegoats let me justify smoking, especially because so many people do it and I can get them wherever I want. But I was adding up that money, thinking about how many people it kills, realizing my life would be shortened if I never got a handle on it, and it all made me so pissed off and irate that I rage quit. Thats the only way I can put it. I got so mad that I couldn't stand it anymore. Instead of brushing it off, I let it consume me. These ****** had power over me that I didn't want them to have, that really made me mad. I had to take the power back. My temper fed my desire to quit, and it was the easiest thing I could have done.

Years went by, people smoking around me when I had a few drinks eventually got me to pick them up after all the rage wore off. Then I got really pissed off about that. I started screaming at a smoker friend one night during a heroic journey while he was smoking like a ****. I said to him, "you know what pisses me off the most about cigarettes? Its that I can be perfectly happy with no desire to smoke they smell like crap, but then some ******* like you comes and starts smoking, and it makes me want to smoke, because I remember enjoying smoking". After that epiphany, I let people smoke around me all the time. I let them smoke in my shop and just turn on the exhaust fan. I embraced my weakness, recognized it, and let it piss me off. Now I am at ZERO cigarettes, and have been for a long time. None here or there, I'm done.

Realizing how little control I had is what made me realize I had to take the power back. I have now gotten multiple people to quit their addictions. Biggest thing now is staying vigilant in regards to my own desires and feelings, cravings, whatever it is. If you dont remember the fact you were hooked on something and let your guard down it will sneak up on you. It is always there waiting in the shadows for you to screw up so it can jump on you. You have to remember that.

I have been to NA, AA, its all a cult. It follows the same rules as a cult. Stupidest thing I ever saw. I'm glad it works for some people, but their unbendable rules, the higher power, all the BS that goes with it is a laughable joke. YOU are the only one with the power to do anything about addiction. The more you rely on others, the closer you are to failing, cause when it gets tough you are going to be alone, and that's the only time that really matters what you believe. When you are all by yourself on hard times, do you still have the strength to keep your demons at bay? That's what you need to figure out. All the rest is gimmicks that will disappoint.

Took me decades to figure out this is the actual real truth, and that rehabs and treatment programs are largely over complicating the process, and profiting off of you. After going through these mental hurdles, I have much better control over all aspect of my life, and more discipline. I still rather wish I never touched any of it.

a reply to: HilterDayon

Socialism ain't the answer.

originally posted by: ColeYounger
a reply to: ronjer

He started by cutting down drastically, then would skip a day or two. He worked up to going longer periods, and I think he did a whole month (the 'sober October' thing) That was about 4-5 years ago. He never did AA or anything like that.
He can't stand the "preachy reformed alcoholics".

He will still have a drink sometimes. He has booze at his house, but he just does a shot now and then. He did have two on Christmas. He'll never do more than two. 90% of the time, just one shot. Since he only has a "bracer" now and then, it's always the really good stuff.

I was at house about a week ago. He asked if I wanted a shot of "Holy Water". I had one, he didn't!

Not to make light of your friend or story, but it is extremely doubtful that he was actually an alcoholic. He sounds more like someone who simply chose to drink - until he chose not to.

I'm speaking from experience, was an addict/alcoholic for about 15 years, and have been sober for over 30.

The biggest indicator that he wasn't an alcoholic is, he still drinks, but one socially and/or occasionally. No, an alcoholic cannot do that.

I won't say it is impossible or there aren't extreme outliers, but an actual alcoholic generally can't simply stop the way you are describing.

My father was an alcoholic. I hardly remember him any other way. During my childhood he had to go the the pub every day after work, he only drank strong beers back then and by the time he got home he couldn't even get his key in the door lock anymore...
when I was in my teens he stopped working and started drinking at home. Whiskey and Brandy, a bottle a day.

Then, when I was 29, he stopped drinking, just like that. Just decided one moment to the next and did it without much words or help from anyone... actually did things with his life again!

Two years later he got a cancer diagnoses, the worst one. He picked up a bottle, started drinking and literally drank himself to death within weeks.

originally posted by: [post=26337536]tanstaafl[/post

I won't say it is impossible or there aren't extreme outliers, but an actual alcoholic generally can't simply stop the way you are describing.

It IS possible.

a reply to: ColeYounger

“Be stronger than your strongest excuse.”

That is something I would tattoo on my arm to remind myself every day.
Love this one !

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: HilterDayon

Socialism ain't the answer.

To value the emotional welfare of children above all other material values does not equate to socialism.

Sorry...something in the back of my mind made me delete this post.

God Bless if you are fighting your demon. Hang in there...

originally posted by: HilterDayon

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: HilterDayon

Socialism ain't the answer.

To value the emotional welfare of children above all other material values does not equate to socialism.

Those who advocate for the unmaking of society to replace it with something better are generally advocating for a form of socialism or communism.

a reply to: tanstaafl

You're probably right. He may not have been an alcoholic in the "clinical" sense, but he drank his entire life and then stopped. He might be one in a million. who knows?
He told me that he still really enjoys a shot now and then, but he doesn't crave it like he used to. He also said if he has two, it's like a switch gets flipped, and he will not do a third one. He has absolutley no desire to.

a reply to: ColeYounger
Addiction is the act of self medication to treat the effects of making bad choices, or having endured a rancid upbringing involving abuse...

Still have to overcome those issues after cleaning up.

Cognitive behavioral therapy is better than drugs. It would be the go to treatment if not stigmatized. But then picking someone to help us living in this skin is most likely why that is.

Just speaking as someone with a little personal experience without viewing video.

🙏❤

originally posted by: KindraLabelle2
It IS possible.

Go back and re-read the OP. Your story did not contradict what I said.

I said it generally isn't possible for an alcoholic to stop drinking like an alcoholic, then just switch to drinking an occasional social drink, without losing control.