I spend more than 14 hours in bed and still didn't want to get up!

Hi all.

Just so you know, I'm only self-studying from home atm and obviously live alone, no pets either.

So last night I felt tired and went to bed at 10.30 , which is unusually early for me , but I had slept very short the night before.
I slept about 2 hours and woke up (naturally) to play roblox with my son who lives in another country and is on the way to school then.
This usually lasts about 30 minutes.
After I read a bit to help fall back asleep , and half-woke up a few times but felt no desire to get up till 12.30ish.
Actually , I still didn't want to get up at 12.30 but for other reasons I needed to get up.

I've off course tried alarms in the past , but they just cause me to lay awake half the night and wake up in time, but so barely have slept.
If it were up to me I'd go to sleep now and never wake up. Fact. So yes, I'm probably depressed, but refuse big-pharma drugs.

Just a rant, anyone else similar ? kinda topic .
I do wake up often feeling spacey out of it, which I'm sure gets worse with irregular sleeping hours.

Maybe the broken sleep pattern to play Roblox doesn't help but I certainly wouldn't put a stop to that, it's a great thing to do.

Have you tried the common things like exercise, meditation, diet change? All these start to make a big difference quickly on day 3 to 5 usually.

The times I wanted to sleep for a long time I was certainly depressed or at least demotivated with life.

Good luck.

a reply to: ancientlight

I do wake up often feeling spacey out of it, which I'm sure gets worse with irregular sleeping hours.

Let's forget the depression topic for a second... you probably wake up in the middle of REM sleep.

Discovering the magic of 90 minute sleep cycles helped me a lot. Turns out one does not need x amount of hours, it's different for everyone but what is the same for everyone is the sleep cycles. One takes 90 minutes.

I get along with 4.5h sleep a day for years and I am not tired throughout the day. It does not matter when I lay down as long as I have 3 sleep cycles a day that I wake up at the end to, everything is good.

Try it, try figuring out how long you need to get to sleep and make it so your alarm bell rings at the end of 90 minute blocks. Like if you go to bed 23:00 and you know it takes you 5 minutes, then simply add 4.5h on top of it. If it takes you 30 minutes to fall to sleep average, then you should account for it.

Most will need 4 or more cycles, according to the "8 hour sleep" talk.

a reply to: ancientlight

Been there, done that.

Best advice to start with, make a list of things "to do".

Start the list and keep going as long as you can until you are SO TIRED you HAVE to sleep.

If you go to bed around late afternoon, you will reset your body clock and wake up at a normal/early hour.

If that doesn't work, see a doctor.

Also, "incubation" is one of the greatest ways to sort out personal problems like stress and anxiety because you are allowing a perfectly natural state in which to asses your life and all it's woes.

If you are interested in "incubation", I recommend a book by the author Peter Kingsley called "In The Dark Place Of Wisdom".

It helped me understand that process of self healing and taught me a bit about history and philisophy too.

Good luck, and keep us informed.

Caffeine intake?

Cut that all off 7 hours before bedtime, you'll be thankful

Having got Sleep Apnoea for the last 20 years and have seen a few sleep specialists they all say the same thing.
Get out of the habit of thinking you need 8 hours sleep as this is what everybody keeps saying "Ooo, you need 8 hour, it's the norm". NO IT AINT. the number of hours sleep you need is for you personally. It might be 8 hours, it might be 4 hours. But with work or commitments that dictate that you only have certain times when you can sleep and if your body does not drop into that pattern you'll go from not sleeping at certain times or sleeping all the time.
In Japan they recognise this and allow staff to have "power naps" in the mid day.
What I have been told (only if you can) when you are tired go to sleep, no matter what time of the day or night. When you wake do what you want but, even in the middle of the night, don't try and go back to sleep because if you're not tired your body will fight you and that leads to stress that makes the matter worse.
I know this is very hard because, whether it's the TV or other people, they are geared to daytime wake, night time sleep.

If you consume histamine foods before going to sleep, it interupts your sleep. Histamine is an awake chemistry. Eat Histamine foods or foods that stop the breakdown of histamine no sooner than four hours before going to sleep and it should help...although in your case you may not get up to play that game as easily. But You're son will like it because he will win more often since you will be half asleep.

Just something to think about.

If you are going out for the night, eat pizza before you go out and it will stimulate some adrenaline and you can stay longer. many people do that, choose foods subconsciously to allow themselves to do what they want to do. Tyramines are powerful medicines, if used properly they benefit us but if you cannot break them down properly they become troublesome. You can get migranes from tyromines...histamine is one of the classes oftyramine chemistries. The metabolic enzyme HNMT breaks down histamines in the brain and nervous system, while DAO enzymes break them down in the gut so they can't be absorbed. People have deficiencies in the enzymes genetically sometimes, this can lead to all sorts of anxiety or depression symptoms or even hyperactivity or no energy. Histamines must be balanced to remain normal. Those enzymes that break down histamines also somewhat break down other monoamines.

Everyone must eat different to remain calm and rational, some people need to consume more histamines, some can't consume much at all. Also some foods either destroy the DAO enzyme and other foods cause muscle histamines to be released into the bloodstream, those muscle histamines are supposed to be released when you need them to make energy, not stimulated by food chemistries if you aren't doing anything. Not all problems associated with excess histamines cause asthma problems in people, Histamines if consumed in excess or if foods blocking the breakdown of histamines are consumed can cause a dumbing down effect. Histamines can destroy the ability of acetylcholine to work properly to keep you rational and thinking right in certain parts of the brain if the levels are too high for too long.

originally posted by: ThatDamnDuckAgain
a reply to: ancientlight

I do wake up often feeling spacey out of it, which I'm sure gets worse with irregular sleeping hours.

Let's forget the depression topic for a second... you probably wake up in the middle of REM sleep.

Discovering the magic of 90 minute sleep cycles helped me a lot. Turns out one does not need x amount of hours, it's different for everyone but what is the same for everyone is the sleep cycles. One takes 90 minutes.

I get along with 4.5h sleep a day for years and I am not tired throughout the day. It does not matter when I lay down as long as I have 3 sleep cycles a day that I wake up at the end to, everything is good.

Try it, try figuring out how long you need to get to sleep and make it so your alarm bell rings at the end of 90 minute blocks. Like if you go to bed 23:00 and you know it takes you 5 minutes, then simply add 4.5h on top of it. If it takes you 30 minutes to fall to sleep average, then you should account for it.

Most will need 4 or more cycles, according to the "8 hour sleep" talk.

Thanks for sharing this. I have the exact same problem as the op. I've tried everything, all my life. All the usual stuff has not worked whatsoever. I fall asleep easy, but sleep very lightly til around 5am then go into a ridiculously deep sleep til about 10/11, but that cuts into normal life like work. I go through phases where I do short bursts of sleep like you mention and I actually feel better for it otherwise sleep ends up feeling like it's taking over my life. I guess the trick is to find the right cycle to make it sustainable.

a reply to: rickymouse
I went to get anti histamines for allergy last summer and being cheap I grabbed the double strength as it wasn't much more than the regular strength. The pharmacist asked if it was for allergy or sleeping. I hadn't noticed that the same chemical was used for sleep but that makes sense of the histamine thing.

a reply to: ancientlight
Maybe you need some motivation. Get out more.
Pets do help a lot. Get one! Go for a walk and remember to feed them. Go fishing or camping or take on a project whatever it may be. Also whiskey or wine does wonders. Don't watch mainstream news. It interferes.

Don't know you . Maybe I'm a bit blunt.

a reply to: ancientlight

Go to the Gym and break a sweat everyday get your Heart rate elevated , Sit in the Sauna if they have one .

Just 30 minutes on a Piece of Cardio Equipment or weights if you prefer .

Maybe you are upset about your son.

originally posted by: marceldp1
a reply to: ancientlight
Maybe you need some motivation. Get out more.
Pets do help a lot. Get one! Go for a walk and remember to feed them. Go fishing or camping or take on a project whatever it may be. Also whiskey or wine does wonders. Don't watch mainstream news. It interferes.

Don't know you . Maybe I'm a bit blunt.

None of that work for me. I live on a farm and have masses of chores to do so lots of fresh air, I take the dog out for exercise, I do silversmithing in my little spare time, don't even have a tv and alcohol makes me stay up all night.

Think you're implying the op might just be lethargic. Might not be the case.

True a reply to: igloo

originally posted by: visitedbythem
Maybe you are upset about your son.

Yes, that's definitely a huge reason.
When my son was visiting and waking me up early each morning, I had no problems getting up and had all the reasons to get up to be with my son

originally posted by: igloo

originally posted by: marceldp1
a reply to: ancientlight
Maybe you need some motivation. Get out more.
Pets do help a lot. Get one! Go for a walk and remember to feed them. Go fishing or camping or take on a project whatever it may be. Also whiskey or wine does wonders. Don't watch mainstream news. It interferes.

Don't know you . Maybe I'm a bit blunt.

None of that work for me. I live on a farm and have masses of chores to do so lots of fresh air, I take the dog out for exercise, I do silversmithing in my little spare time, don't even have a tv and alcohol makes me stay up all night.

Think you're implying the op might just be lethargic. Might not be the case.

I get out most days, and go for walks. I used to run till I was 38 weeks pregnant actually (!) , but that slowed down over the years. Last time I went for a walk I was half running, and will continue to do that

Thanks for the replies everyone . I've read them and will take note
Less caffeine probably doesn't hurt either

a reply to: ancientlight

Depression is a great time to catch-up on sleep !

There is no 'normal'.
There is only 'average'.

Just be you, and go with the flow.

Accept that adult life isn't the dream we had as children, and that it is swinging bags of hammers at us everyday.

Spend some quiet moments pondering the battle inside, that expresses itself as depression.

You don't have to make yourself sleep.
Sleep when sleep comes.
Nothing wrong with resting in bed, and studying the insides of your eyelids for a couple of hours.
So why spend it worrying about when we have to get-up, oh and that won't be enough sleep, and will be tired all day, and..., and...

i have had an on going battle with sleep since i was a child. I am now 50 years old and it is no better. Tried so many supplements, techniques, no caffiene, .. nothing helps.I usually am lucky if i get 4 hours a night. I am tired in the mornings but once i get going i am fine all day. I never nap. Do not drink anything wiith caffiene in it. Just not tired. I just am a person that can live on a few hours of sleep. It may be hereditary. A bunch of my family members havethe same problem. a reply to: ancientlight

a reply to: igloo
Glad it may help you, sleep is life quality.

The hardest thing for me was to know how long it takes to get into sleep. I suffer from insomnia sometimes though, I think if I did not know the 90 minute cycles I would not be able to function during the day. I am also a night person, so I am most productive after 10pm and peak at 1-2am.

For that, I have found a trick. I have a analog alarm bell and it has a button that resets the time to 12/60 when I press it, but not the alarm time. So I just select 1:30am, 3am, 4:30am and hit reset each night before I go to sleep and feel tired. This way, I do not have to calculate the time. Like I go to bed 02:00 and not find sleep until 02:30, I would have to mess with the alarm time. That way I just hit the reset button, I "hacked" the alarm bell into a timer bell.

The sleep cycles allow me to use that productive time (I am single mother) more flexible. I can do concentrate work when my child is in bed, undisturbed. It's also more silent at night.

So for people like you probably and me, this is good information to know, share it further I got the info from someone that would do weeks like this with no more sleep than 180 minutes at a time and see the things he achieved.

Last year during the 24h race I slept 2x90 minutes and 1x90 minute with interruption and was still fitter than those that had 3-5 hours of sleep shifts. Some slept 7 hours were complete wasted on Sunday.

It's a different question how healthy this is and what processes your body does not do, if you do not have like 3-4 90min cycles in a row. And by the way, we wake up up to 30 times at night and do not even register it. It is said to be an old reflex to check out if everything is fine (animals, fire still going..) and if there is nothing that grabs your attention, you do not even remember that you woke up.

What always helps me going to sleep is this, I copied this method so it is a known one: Imagine an object you know very well. For me it's a certain engine. Then you zoom in, like to surface granular level. Get aware of all details. Zoom out slowly and try to add the details that you brain has to provide now in "real-time". The little spot, becomes a ridge, that of a screw head... zoom out...and at one point, your imagination is so strong and your mind so occupied delivering the details that you disconnect and fall to sleep.

Just dropping a few sleep hints here for others to read too