God, the ultimate feudalist?

I have given up on being religious for a while now, I wouldn't call myself agnostic because I'm sure God still exists.

The problem is that if God exists then I see a lot of his own elements as representative of the ultimate feudalist or dictator. In the Bible, it describes that in God's coming kingdom, most of the time would be dedicated to worshiping the greatness of Jesus and his father, like the Juche ideology in North Korea where the Kim's are worshiped similarly to demi-Gods. There are no secrets in Heaven and no talking against or in opposing doctrine too, so the concept of free speech and privacy will also be abolished. I believe God also is so jealous that he wants to abolish all leadership and ruling humans "below" him and wants to concentrate all power onto himself and maybe a few of his angels or top friends. No more things like video games or secular media because they are sin.

God can also abolish things and concepts arbitrarily because his people wouldn't "need" it anymore, like sexual intercourse or sexuality feelings in general, because such concepts or relationships are inherently corrupt or sinful, besides "God has something better", does he? But it has been so ingrained into our biology, he allowed us to do it on earth. But God sounds like he can literally do anything and justify it as "right" no matter how nonsensical it sounds to us here. Sounds no different than certain elite humans ruling us today.

Oh, but God is merciful and he does forgive you, but as long as you continue to do his ways only. If you choose not to, you are technically free to do as you will but mind you will be condemned to eternal torment and damnation if you choose not to do God's way. This is pretty much similar to the rule that every dictator or mob boss criminal in history lives by.

What I have to conclude from all of this is that God resembles the ultimate feudalist or dictator and Heaven the ultimate thearchy fuedalist state. What I find interesting is that most of those who are condemning the NWO and global governments in general are devoutly Christian. And I am also not saying that I like Satan, just because I question God does not mean I am for Satan. I think Satan is just as big a control-freak. I hear people talking about roads and houses built from gold and precious metals, that we all see each other as only a brotherly or sisterly love, sounds more like what we'd call communist today. If you think of this, does what I described above sound like a good existence, especially for eternity?

a reply to: Bubblebuttgod

Somebody "believes" but has clearly not been protecting their spiritual windows and doors. Deception has set root. The bible lays out the progression in fairly clear terms. And sin when it is finished leads to death. That is spiritual death in this lifetime, then the second death which is eternal separation from God in the most unpleasant place.

I might pop in and write more later. Exhausted at the moment.

a reply to: Bubblebuttgod

When you look at it that way, definetly a bully, still quite a ok dude.
Though he must be delighted the Vatican gave him "carte blanche" for bulling, I think he run out of ideas and motivation seeing we were actually much better at it doing it to ourselfs.

This world, universe and everything made is to glorify God, the creator and not mankind.

You will find it impossible to understand God or how he thinks.

Humble yourself before God for you are a very small part of creation. He picked you before the world was made.

Praise God, worship God and love him with all your heart and welcome the Holy Spirit.

a reply to: Bubblebuttgod

a reply to: Bubblebuttgod

You are so way off it’s not even funny, earth is still part of the kingdom of Heaven. You will be immortal, no one is married, and there is no jealously or sin, we will be perfect and can really see what it is like to be with a girl, and many more surprises. It’s one big party, and what if God said worship me by loving each other, and loving my Son and my family who sacrificed all for all of you to be with us, one family, sharing all, until there is no more pain and suffering, but rejoicing and worshiping God out of such great love, indeed we will be blessed if that’s what we do the majority of time, loving each other and God, as what is His will in Heaven, be on earth thus says the Lord.

a reply to: Bubblebuttgod

As a believer I believe God created male and female , their roles and also sex. Marriage and the confines of marriage are what He requests from christians and for obvious reasons. Relationship with God will be better, so I believe with faith

As for worship, it’s mutual, worship is love and God loves us. It’s hard to love a being we can’t really have a relationship with so worship is important. What does He request as an existential commitment to worshiping Him, to love others.

As for eternal torment and your fear of failing, that’s just poor theology, I don’t want to get into a 10000 word essay and you don’t really care
So here if you want


Funniest thing, when I read my bible, God makes us equal
Within Him, part of Him, almost equals as I understand but can’t really explain

a reply to: Bubblebuttgod

I have given up on being religious for a while now, I wouldn't call myself agnostic because I'm sure God still exists.

Reminds me of Buddha when a hindu begged him to tell him if his God exists?

The Buddha answered No.

An atheist hearing the news went to the Buddha and thanked him for sharing the truth.

The Buddha looked at him and said God exists.

Thing is, books written by man percieve god tainted by their own conciousness. You need to read scripture understanding those limitations. Not judge God by the limitations of man.

a reply to: DeathSlayer
Fair enough, no matter what I don't have a choice and it's futile anyway.

a reply to: Randomname2

Indeed, and not that I'm throwing away the "good side" of it and rejecting God completely, but I am asking questions. Also, the most popular verse that is used to discredit the idea of still having marriage(=sexuality) in Heaven is Matthew 22:30 where Jesus responds to a question asked by the Sadducees. And of course, since there is no marriage in Heaven and sex outside of marriage is sinful, heterosexual relationships between men and women and sex wouldn't be there either right? I am struggling mightily against this too because I am single and have been for all but one year in my whole life and it doesn't make me feel any less anxious that the end of days is supposed to be around the corner soon.

And I assumed the belief that Heaven was a place up in the sky and not on earth (I was raised Roman Catholic so I still have some bias here), but either way I think my "eternal autocrat" analogy still stands. I don't understand how I am that "far out of base" or whatever you said because I do think most believers see God as the only sole king of both this universe and Heaven if I'm not mistaken. He could at least delegate to people the ability to create their own cities and communities, that would be like the game SimCity but in real life.

a reply to: Bubblebuttgod

I think the only difference in Feudalism and any other system of governance is that Feudalism proudly declares that it's a hierarchy?

I think what God has in mind for his kingdom is something like: your position in the hierarchy corresponds with your level of responsibility to the hierarchy. Heavy is the head that wears the crown.

Jesus Christ will rule with a fist of iron during the millennial kingdom reign. I read in the AV1611 an OT verse describing what happens while living int he Millennial Kingdom, if a man just thinks of leaving his house to go and thieve, he and his whole house would be instantly taken down into the earth and destroyed never to be seen again until the great white throne judgement.

Now that is ruling with a Rod of Iron

There is also a recurring theme in a lot of the religious traditions not exclusively to Christianity, that assumes the spiritual and abstract is inherently clean and good and material things and pursuing them are inherently corrupted or sinful, at best a "necessary evil" that will be done away with in the future kingdom. You can make the claim that this is really a Hellenist idea that seeped it's way into the teaching of Christianity but I personally doubt this case is that simple. The concept of the market and capitalism itself is driven by the pursuit of material things. Not exclusively, but that's the main engine of the machine. I find it interesting that people would say the idea of Capitalism is intrinsically a Christian belief.

originally posted by: Bubblebuttgod
a reply to: Randomname2

Indeed, and not that I'm throwing away the "good side" of it and rejecting God completely, but I am asking questions. ...

The question in the thread title, as elaborated on in the OP, is a bit rhetorical though. Seems more like you want(ed) to make a case for it than a genuine question you want(ed) to find the answer to because you don't (didn't) know the answer, and are openminded to a different answer than the one you already gave in the OP.

That being said, the form of government ("kingdom") planned and prophecied by Jehovah God (in the Bible) is called a theocracy, not a feudal government or feudalism. It may have some similarities with the hierarchal structure of feudalism but there are also some differences.

You also used the word "dictator". By “dictatorship” one usually understands today the form of government that assumes absolute authority and rules by force and coercion. Millions of people today live under such a dictatorship, and usually these systems of government find good support from the churches. But how many of those living under a dictatorship are pleased with such a government and content with it? How many suffer unjustly under a dictatorship? How many long for deliverance from it? Most of the people living under such a form of government have not desired this way of life. It was imposed on them. But they have no other choice than to accept it.

God’s kingdom, however, is not a dictatorship. The dictator rules by compulsion; Jehovah God appeals to the free and good will of honest persons. God does not force anyone to serve him. “Choose for yourselves today whom you will serve.” (Josh. 24:15) That has always been Jehovah’s principle, and it is the same today. No one is forced to accept the theocratic organization operating in God’s family today. It is a matter of free choice. Jehovah wins his subjects by showing them love. And he expects his subjects to love him unreservedly. (Matt. 22:37, 38) God’s rule is based upon love, from top to bottom. This cannot be found in any dictatorship. God’s rule is further based upon perfect justice, wisdom and power. This cannot be found either, in any dictatorial rule. Since Jehovah is the Creator of all things, he has an absolute and indisputable right to the perfect obedience and devotion of all his creatures. No dictatorship can claim such rights.

The love a Christian has for God and His kingdom under Christ is expressed in the obedience he shows to God’s commandments: “For this is what the love of God means, that we observe his commandments.” (1 John 5:3) Their obedience toward God is not forced, but is a voluntary and joyful one. It is not a burden under which they sigh and suffer. Said the King of God’s kingdom: “My yoke is kindly and my load is light.” (Matt. 11:30) There is happiness in doing the will of God, as was expressed by the psalmist in the words: “Happy is the man in fear of Jehovah, in whose commandments he has taken very much delight.”—Ps. 112:1.

So there is a tremendous difference between a dictatorship and Jehovah’s kingdom. Countless people would escape from the dictatorial rulerships if they could do so. On the other hand, we see that tens of thousands of honest persons flee every year to God’s kingdom, because here they have the promise of everlasting life and happiness. They are taken up into the unity of God’s family. “Look! How good and how pleasant it is for brothers to dwell together in unity!”—Ps. 133:1.

As to some of God's commandments (“My yoke is kindly and my load is light.” And why they are described as such):

a reply to: whereislogic

Sorry to tell ya but Jehovah Witnesses AWAKE crowd will be burning in hell while Israel reigns for a 1,000 years before the judgement comes.

Then after the Judgement the Jews get a new Jerusalem and a new earth to rule on forever as promised.

God will lay aside the JW's before he will lay aside ISRAEL.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

A little hard to believe if you put it like that. “So under the present circumstances, I say to you, do not meddle with these men, but let them alone. For if this scheme or this work is from men, it will be overthrown; but if it is from God, you will not be able to overthrow them. Otherwise, you may even be found fighters against God himself.” (Acts 5:38,39)

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ARE SOULS SUFFERING IN AN UNDERWORLD?

12. Under inspiration, Solomon said what about the condition of the dead?

12 “All those . . . who have come to know the truth” can answer that question. (2 John 1) We surely agree with Solomon’s words: “A live dog is better off than a dead lion. For the living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all . . . All that your hand finds to do, do with your very power, for there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in Sheol [mankind’s common grave], the place to which you are going.”​—Eccl. 9:4, 5, 10.

13. How were the Jews affected by Hellenic culture and religion?

13 The Jews were in a position to know the truth about the dead. When Greece was divided among the generals of Alexander the Great, however, efforts were made to unite Judah with Syria by such means as Greek religion and Hellenic culture. As a result, the Jews accepted the false teachings that the human soul is immortal and that there is an underworld place of torment. The Greeks did not originate the idea of an underworld full of suffering souls, for the Babylonians thought of “the nether world . . . as a place full of horrors, . . . presided over by gods and demons of great strength and fierceness.” (The Religion of Babylonia and Assyria) Yes, the Babylonians believed in the immortality of the soul.

14. What did Job and Abraham know about death and resurrection?

14 Although the righteous man Job did not have the Scriptures, he knew the truth about death. He also realized that Jehovah is a loving God who would have a yearning to resurrect him. (Job 14:13-15) Abraham too believed in the resurrection. (Read Hebrews 11:17-19.) Since it is impossible to resurrect someone who cannot die, those God-fearing men did not believe in the immortality of the human soul. God’s spirit undoubtedly helped Job and Abraham to understand the state of the dead and to exercise faith in the resurrection. These truths are also part of our heritage.

...

Source: Do You Appreciate Our Spiritual Heritage?

“Look out,” wrote the apostle Paul to Christians living in the latter half of the first century C.E. What was he warning against? “Perhaps there may be someone who will carry you off as his prey through the philosophy and empty deception according to the tradition of men.”​—Colossians 2:8.

Despite Paul’s warning, from the middle of the second century C.E., some Christians began using concepts borrowed from ancient philosophers in order to explain their beliefs. Why? They wanted to be accepted by the educated people of the Roman Empire and thus make more converts.

However, the adoption of one myth led to the creation of others and produced what is now commonly believed to be Christian doctrine. To expose these myths, compare what the following reference works say with what the Bible actually teaches.

Myth 1: The Soul Is Immortal (One Myth Leads to Another)

What is the origin of the myth?

“The early Christian philosophers adopted the Greek concept of the soul’s immortality and thought of the soul as being created by God and infused into the body at conception.”​—The New Encyclopædia Britannica (1988), Volume 11, page 25.

What does the Bible say?

“The soul that sinneth, it shall die.”​—Ezekiel 18:4, King James Version.

End of (false) story really. But let's continue, “for there will be a period of time when they will not put up with the wholesome* [Or “healthful; beneficial.”] teaching, but according to their own desires, they will surround themselves with teachers to have their ears tickled.* [Or “to tell them what they want to hear.”] They will turn away from listening to the truth and give attention to false stories.” (2 Timothy 4:3,4)

Regarding the creation of the first human soul, the Bible says: “Jehovah God proceeded to form the man out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man came to be a living soul [Hebrew, neʹphesh].”​—Genesis 2:7.

The Hebrew word neʹphesh, translated “soul,” means ‘a creature that breathes.’ When God created the first man, Adam, He did not infuse into him an immortal soul but the life force that is maintained by breathing. Therefore, “soul” in the Biblical sense refers to the entire living being. If separated from the life force originally given by God, the soul dies.​—Genesis 3:19; Ezekiel 18:20.

The doctrine of the immortality of the soul raised questions: Where do souls go after death? What happens to the souls of the wicked? When nominal Christians adopted the myth of the immortal soul, this led them to accept another myth​—the teaching of hellfire.

Compare these Bible verses: Ecclesiastes 3:19; Matthew 10:28; Acts 3:23

FACT:
At death a person ceases to exist

Myth 2: The Wicked Suffer in Hell

What is the origin of the myth?

“Of all classical Greek philosophers, the one who has had the greatest influence on traditional views of Hell is Plato.”​—Histoire des enfers (The History of Hell), by Georges Minois, page 50.

“From the middle of the 2nd century AD Christians who had some training in Greek philosophy began to feel the need to express their faith in its terms . . . The philosophy that suited them best was Platonism [the teachings of Plato].”​—The New Encyclopædia Britannica (1988), Volume 25, page 890.

“The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, ‘eternal fire.’ The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God.”​—Catechism of the Catholic Church, 1994 edition, page 270.

What does the Bible say?

“For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing, . . . for there is no work or thought or knowledge or wisdom in Sheol, to which you are going.”​—Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10, Revised Standard Version.

The Hebrew word Sheol, which referred to the “abode of the dead,” is translated “hell” in some versions of the Bible. What does this passage reveal about the condition of the dead? Do they suffer in Sheol in order to atone for their errors? No, for they “know nothing.” That is why the patriarch Job, when suffering terribly because of a severe illness, begged God: “Protect me in hell [Hebrew, Sheol].” (Job 14:13; Douay-Rheims Version) What meaning would his request have had if Sheol was a place of eternal torment? Hell, in the Biblical sense, is simply the common grave of mankind, where all activity has ceased.

Is not this definition of hell more logical and in harmony with Scripture? What crime, however horrible, could cause a God of love to torture a person endlessly? (1 John 4:8) But if hellfire is a myth, what about heaven?

Compare these Bible verses: Psalm 146:3, 4; Acts 2:25-27; Romans 6:7, 23

FACT:
God does not punish people in hell

For those who are under the impression that the God of the Bible is some kind of dictator or tyrant, in part because of this teaching of hellfire... (as explained in my previous comment: not a Bible teaching)

As mentioned in my previous comment, in ancient Babylonian and Assyrian beliefs the “nether world . . . is pictured as a place full of horrors, and is presided over by gods and demons of great strength and fierceness.” (The Religion of Babylonia and Assyria, Boston, 1898, Morris Jastrow, Jr., p. 581) Early evidence of the fiery aspect of Christendom’s hell is found in the religion of ancient Egypt. (The Book of the Dead, New Hyde Park, N.Y., 1960, with introduction by E. A. Wallis Budge, pp. 144, 149, 151, 153, 161) Buddhism, which dates back to the 6th century B.C.E., in time came to feature both hot and cold hells. (The Encyclopedia Americana, 1977, Vol. 14, p. 68) Depictions of hell portrayed in Catholic churches in Italy have been traced to Etruscan roots.—La civiltà etrusca (Milan, 1979), Werner Keller, p. 389.

But the real roots of this God-dishonoring doctrine go much deeper. The fiendish concepts associated with a hell of torment slander God and originate with the chief slanderer of God (the Devil, which name means “Slanderer”), the one whom Jesus Christ called “the father of the lie.”—John 8:44.

a reply to: whereislogic

Try believing what the KJV1611 Bible says.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

“The soul that sinneth, it shall die.”​—Ezekiel 18:4, King James Version.

So, no, we do not have an immortal soul that continues living after the death of the physical body and that can be tortured forever in hellfire, or 'burn in hell', as you put it according to the earlier discussed beliefs that contradict the clear statements in the KJ or any other Bible. Those statements concerning the condition of the dead quoted before from another translation (Eccl. 9:5,10) also relay the same message as in the KJ:

5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.

10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest. [note how they switch their translation of the Hebrew she’ohlʹ, to “the grave”, whereas elsewhere they translate the same Hebrew word as “hell”. In this case it's a little more convenient in regards to their theology concerning hell to render it as “the grave”. This shows that they know what they're doing and that they know what the word is really referring to as used in the Bible, mankind’s common grave.]

Regarding dying, Psalm 146:4 (KJ) says: “His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.”

It doesn't appear that you believe "what the KJV1611 Bible says", or any other Bible translation for that matter who say the same things (not necessarily with the exact same words and medieval English style, which doesn't change the teaching).

The word “hell” is found in many Bible translations. In the same verses other translations read “the grave,” “the world of the dead,” and so forth. Other Bibles simply transliterate the original-language words that are sometimes rendered “hell”; that is, they express them with the letters of our alphabet but leave the words untranslated. What are those words? The Hebrew she’ohlʹ and its Greek equivalent haiʹdes, which refer, not to an individual burial place, but to the common grave of dead mankind; also the Greek geʹen·na, which is used as a symbol of eternal destruction. However, both in Christendom and in many non-Christian religions it is taught that hell is a place inhabited by demons and where the wicked, after death, are punished (and some believe that this is with torment).

Why is there confusion as to what the Bible says about hell?

“Much confusion and misunderstanding has been caused through the early translators of the Bible persistently rendering the Hebrew Sheol and the Greek Hades and Gehenna by the word hell. The simple transliteration of these words by the translators of the revised editions of the Bible has not sufficed to appreciably clear up this confusion and misconception.”—The Encyclopedia Americana (1942), Vol. XIV, p. 81.

Translators have allowed their personal beliefs to color their work instead of being consistent in their rendering of the original-language words. For example: (1) The King James Version rendered she’ohlʹ as “hell,” “the grave,” and “the pit”; haiʹdes is therein rendered both “hell” and “grave”; geʹen·na is also translated “hell.” (2) Today’s English Version transliterates haiʹdes as “Hades” and also renders it as “hell” and “the world of the dead.” But besides rendering “hell” from haiʹdes it uses that same translation for geʹen·na. (3) The Jerusalem Bible transliterates haiʹdes six times, but in other passages it translates it as “hell” and as “the underworld.” It also translates geʹen·na as “hell,” as it does haiʹdes in two instances. Thus the exact meanings of the original-language words have been obscured.

a reply to: whereislogic

Sorry my Saviour is an Everlasting Saviour and I am in him and like him. I will live with him forever in my separate perfect body which is promised every believer. You deny this biblical fact to your own hurt.

You are wrong, your soul lives forever but in only one of two places. You know the verse if you study in the KJV1611 you will see this truth. But because you believe the word of God to be error filed and incomplete, you make yourself the authority, thereby making yourself equal to God as a god, by which to change God's words. Your AWAKE/WATCHTOWER Bible Translation is the NEW WORLD TRANSLATION. Which has around 67,000 word and section deletions, 87,000 changes in wording, and APPROVED of by the ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH. I never trust Roman Catholic church to approve any Bible and neither should you.

So which place will you go after death, Heaven with God forever in perfect bodies? Or in HELL in your same disease ridden sinful body burning in a endless flame with no comfort, and worms eating you but never finish eating you. When I have been in heaven 10,000 years bright shining as the sun you will have no less days to curse Jesus Name as when you first begun.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: whereislogic

...
You are wrong, your soul lives forever but in only one of two places. You know the verse if you study in the KJV1611 you will see this truth. ...

originally posted by: whereislogic
a reply to: ChesterJohn

“The soul that sinneth, it shall die.”​—Ezekiel 18:4, King James Version.

You say the exact opposite as this truth from the KJV. It doesn't get much clearer than that. Why would I believe someone who says they are taking their beliefs and teachings from the "KJV1611", then says the exact opposite of what the KJV says about the subject?

“for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,” (Acts 3:23; KJV)

“For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.” (Romans 6:23; KJV)