Consciousness, My Adventures With The Universe

a reply to: Itisnowagain

yeah we kind of know what you were going to say anyways...
I guess "now" is a fleeting moment and we missed it.

a reply to: Peeple

I would say the tree had agency the chair is dead. Maybe.

Maybe...
How far back in the material evolution do you attribute agency? Could minerals be governed by an agency?

Because imagine how tiny you are with your tiny consciousness on this tiny planet in the face of the almost infinite from our perspective enormous universe.

I think it would be fun if we all experiment with how we can send a consciousness-Voyager out to the universe. A Ping to see what Pongs back.

Imagine how big you would be if you were the global consciousness. You would not need send a consciousness-voyager anywhere because out there would be in you (just another thought away). The 144000 petals of the chakra that Buddha attained, the 144,000 mentioned in revelation, all point to that unpartitioned conciousness So you can understand why it remains a secret to people full of ego. People full of ego would chase but can never attain global conciosness.

originally posted by: Terpene
a reply to: Itisnowagain
I guess "now" is a fleeting moment and we missed it.

Post a reply when it is no longer now.
Lol.

I highly recommend all the podcasts on this site:
urbangurucafe.com...

Terence Stamp reads from the book 'Perfect Brilliant Stillness' by David Carse (75th podcast on site).......is incredible.

I also found the entire book on youtube.
"Perfect Brilliant Stillness AUDIOBOOK FULL David Carse | Ramesh Balsekar | Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj"

a reply to: glend

Global is still less than a grain of sand. That was the point you know? To imagine the magnitude of a universe with consciousness. Earth, the solar system, hell even the Milky Way is tiny if you look at sthg apparently infinite.

a reply to: Itisnowagain

Try to post an answer now, lol indeed. Because the now has always past before you make it to the next letter.

a reply to: Peeple

So is everything you see, hear, feel and smell. I think our thoughts are the only thing that we could consider now.

I was joking, i hope that wasn't lost on you both....

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: Itisnowagain

Try to post an answer now, lol indeed. Because the now has always past before you make it to the next letter.

No one is posting an answer......
Now is appearing as what is appearing.

originally posted by: Terpene
a reply to: Peeple

So is everything you see, hear, feel and smell. I think our thoughts are the only thing that we could consider now.

Is the seer and seen ever separate?

There is no seer......there is no seen....just misconception.

Seeing is/appearance is.

The father and son are one......there is no other.

originally posted by: Terpene
a reply to: Peeple

I would say the tree had agency the chair is dead. Maybe.

Maybe...
How far back in the material evolution do you attribute agency? Could minerals be governed by an agency?

That's the question, right? Doesn't any single particle, or the forces, or the Higgs Field etc also kind of have agency? Or are they tools of something beyond that uses them to further its agency?

a reply to: Peeple
Is there someone in the body or mind that has agency?

a reply to: Peeple

That's the question, right?

Yes it seems so...

... any single particle, or the forces, or the Higgs Field etc also kind of have agency? Or are they tools of something beyond...

The two options are not mutually exclusive. If any of the answers was positive I would attribute agency to the chair though.
My question would then become where does this agency get lost?

Another question mark is, does free will imply that you are partly maybe fully in charge of your agency?
If there is a single overarching agency that uses everything like a tool, then free will is out of the window.

If we go with the premis that there is/was one agency that started all, and it's interest is to understand itself, at some point it would be curious as to how another agency perceives itself.
I think agency has the capability to create agency equal or lesser to itself. I don't like that wording...
There are twin sun systems=equal agency and there are planets=lesser agency.

Being of lesser agency you gravitate towards your overarching agency, if you are equal you are either balanced or go seperate ways. So in the latter free will exist without restriction, in the former you are limited by the course the overarching agency takes.

That's enough ramblings for today

a reply to: Itisnowagain

Yes.
You drive me mad a little, since almost the day I made an account here on ATS, you know that, right? Briefly I thought I understood you when I was in an Alan Watts phase, but I think you're stuck to be honest.
You're a bit of a broken record, all conversations with you are the same. And I think it's pretty obvious I don't get what you're trying to convey here and I just refuse to watch the vids you link, because I am still waiting for itisnowagain to show up somewhere in those posts of yours.
You know I once practised the martial arts/ buddhists/ awareness thing the mindfullness in the now I think you try to preach and it's helpful when it is appropriate, but as human being with an agency, as species with an agency it is very important to face all three directions of time and just not get stuck.
It seems to me you've experienced some sort of gigantic trauma and you're in avoidance ever since.
That's how it seems to me, not saying that's how it is. I do hope there's a deeper lesson or some elusive wisdom and you just lack the words, but...
Since we now (lol) officially established I don't get you, let's learn from the past and maybe try a little different approach.
I want to know more about you, I am willing to listen. Just not again the same and the same and the same as always since 2014.

That is the part of my mind with an agency towards your mind, reaching out to you. Is there something with an agency in your mind?
Or has Elvis left the building?

a reply to: Terpene

Oh no not the free will again...
Another discussion that seems to repeat itself.
And I think it's kind of obvious that if you mean with free will is anybody or anything capable of making a decision independent of information, experience or 'a vision' the answer is clearly no. Because the fundamental interconnectedness of all things doesn't allow that. Once you answer the question 'do you exist?' with yes you're entangled with everything influencing you.
Aware of it or not.
Just like there's no real coincidence. Nothing is free. Everything is influenced.
Just as obviously that doesn't mean I can't make decisions. So will yes free no.


How can you say planets have lesser agency than suns?
Planets have more responsibility so less freedom. But even more agency if we consider how many others are influenced by them.
While suns seem more like bubbling away and kind of doing their own thing while the planets got to work out themselves what to do with the conditions the sun gave them.
But I think that's maybe another human bias issue that I immediately try to create a hierarchy?

a reply to: Peeple

Everything is influenced.... ....will yes free no.

well said although I find this thought somehow depressing.

But I think that's maybe another human bias issue that I immediately try to create a hierarchy?

Yes I'm guilty as charged, as I kind of started it...

How can you say planets have lesser agency than suns

just like that...

The sun defines the course of the planets, obviously the suns overarching agency would be the black hole.
I'd agree once agency has created agency even lesser agency can in it's complexity become greater than it's overarching agency.
I think it is still governed by its overarching agency though, kind of like planets can't juste leave their sun.

Although sometimes I wonder if there is a critical point to this inevitability?

a reply to: Terpene

But it would seem to me without a heavy sun going supernova there wouldn't be black holes. Not 100% on that but quite confident.

It was indeed you who started it and it felt so natural I just ran with it apparently. Perception spoiled by culture. Because in nature as a system there's probably no part that actually has a kind of ruling agency?
Since free will and creation always have some link back to the God question maybe that's the source of a misunderstanding?

a reply to: Peeple

without a heavy sun going supernova there wouldn't be black holes.

You kind of answerd this question

I wonder if there is a critical point to this inevitability?

Which implies lesser agency can create greater agency.

Yes undoubtedly a misunderstanding as I don't understand the question. Why do they have a link back to God? Aren't they just basic philosophical questions.

Or do you mean that by saying agency we are actually talking about God?

a reply to: Terpene

Maybe it's just me. But I don't think I ever had a conversation on ATS about consciousness or the gestalt of the universe without the big guy at least being mentioned.

And I mean it could be kind of a the artist-formerly-known-as-situation. Because my mind went wondering about agency and will if one has to imply the other? The question of determination or a plan creeps in doesn't it?

a reply to: Peeple

conversation on ATS about consciousness or the gestalt of the universe without the big guy at least being mentioned.

well that's just ATS, what can you do...

what aka would I Attribute to agency, was a big part if my internal dialog too.
Life?
God?
Consciousness?
None of them, is what I went for and I just substituted the unknown with agency and made our discussion about defining it.

Sorry for high jacking your thread

agency and will if one has to imply the other?

Yeah right... "will" even if not free is quite a defining trait.

If agency is all encompassing and singular
The observation of my surrounding would imply that everything has agency but not everything has will.
But if agency is plural I would agree that agency implies will.