I was tested positive for covid, ready to talk

originally posted by: Hellmutt
a reply to: marg6043

Btw, I hear you don't want a vaccine. Vaccines are a small risk, yes. But in this case, I believe it's worth it. Too dangerous not to. There's a high risk that the virus may cause damage to your lungs and your heart, and with a vaccine you're better off. I've got 3 shots so far, and if necessary I'll take another.

Why when all the data shows the antibodies from the vaccine do absolutely nothing and the virus evades them .. because the spike protein has mutated so the antibodies don't recognize it.

a reply to: Xtrozero

The big problem right now is that monoclonal antibodies for COVID treatment is about 4,000 dollars and rather small supply compared to the vaccine that will help too, maybe not at the same level of further immunity, but a hell of a lot better than nothing. The goal in all this is only to prevent illness to stop it progressing into the blood or lungs.

The virus is a respiratory virus... one cannot prevent it from getting into the lungs as long as one is still breathing. The bloodstream is another matter, but only if one is allowed to choose not to have it injected into the bloodstream.

I have recanted this same personal experience multiple times; perhaps this time someone will acknowledge it. I personally know of two extended relatives, both of whom masked religiously, self-isolated to the point of never leaving their homes, and were vaccinated at the first possible opportunity and boosted at the first opportunity as many times as they could. BOTH WERE HOSPITALIZED WITH THE CHINESE VIRUS AFTER BEING FULLY VACCINATED. Both also did not respond to treatment until they received the monoclonal antibodies. As soon as they received the monoclonal antibodies, they started improving greatly and were released within a day or so.

The vaccine failed, for whatever reason, to keep them out of the hospital. It is likely that, had they not received the antibodies, the vaccine would have failed at keeping them alive. The monoclonal antibodies did not fail, but rather succeeded in healing them despite the vaccine.

OK, so it's $4k. My cholesterol injection costs that every 4 months. My wife's insulin costs that every three months. I get my medicine via Medicare; she gets hers via pharmaceutical charity. No one has to shut down their business for our medication to work; no one has to wear face masks around us for our medicine to work; no one has to take our medication except us for our medication to work.

But somehow that is unacceptable for what is being billed as some kind of ELE virus? Really?

We would all be talking about this differently if Biden came out early last year and said that 85% of the old and il-health are now vaccinated, and so we have accomplished our goal.

I agree.

The vaccine is now free to anyone else who wants it, but it is your choice.

Not necessarily. Some places are still pushing for mandatory vaccines to engage in one's occupation. It is not really someone's "choice" if such extreme coercion as being able to afford to eat is dependent on one's participation.

I am also hearing reports about Biden planning to stop the government subsidies for the vaccine. Maybe that's rumor; maybe not. Either way, it is not free; it is subsidized and subsidies can be taken away as easily as they are given.

So kind of like I have done 100 times in my 61 years...lol

And if you wish to take that chance, who am I to tell you that you are not allowed to?

That's the problem I have: the mandates. Not the (IMO poor quality) treatments or vaccines. As long as one has the ability to choose, without coercion, whether or not this medical decision is right for them, it's really none of my business. Unfortunately, that is not the case and mandates have been forced onto people for two years now. And the virus is still unabated. Something's not working!

TheRedneck

originally posted by: TheRedneck

I have recanted this same personal experience multiple times; perhaps this time someone will acknowledge it. I personally know of two extended relatives, both of whom masked religiously, self-isolated to the point of never leaving their homes, and were vaccinated at the first possible opportunity and boosted at the first opportunity as many times as they could. BOTH WERE HOSPITALIZED WITH THE CHINESE VIRUS AFTER BEING FULLY VACCINATED. Both also did not respond to treatment until they received the monoclonal antibodies. As soon as they received the monoclonal antibodies, they started improving greatly and were released within a day or so.

To he honest, I can give a damn about these personal stories that drive people's beliefs though emotions and not logical thinking. The vaccine and monoclonal antibodies are use in totally different ways. The vaccine is to prime the immune system pump so that that body can fight it off quicker and not get to the point of your aunts. Monoclonal antibodies are mainly used IF a person illness become sever, so two thumbs up on both.

The reality is that the vaccines are keeping a hell of a lot of people out of the hospitals. Here are the stats recently in OR, and both OR and WA have been showing this whole last year that 80%+ of those going to the hospitals are unvacced. That is statistics, not your two Aunts... Even when I say I know of no one vacced that had more than a few days of minor illness, and I know of many unvacced that told me it was the worst flu in their life, and I know a lot of people, that too is not statistics.

So I'll raise you your two aunts with a whole state of statistics.

So even looking at recent data with the Omnicron surge here is data from Oregon for the two weeks of Dec 26 to Jan 8 that shows the vaccine is still somewhat effective. What further makes the unvacced picture look worst is most of the vacced going to the hospital are a higher risk group of older people and/or with other illnesses than the unvacced while it is even more damning that the unvacced only make up about 35% of the Oregon population now, but 70+ in the hospitals. In other words... If everyone was vacced there would only be about 10 to 12 people in the hospital in those two weeks and not 45.



The vaccine was never about preventing as much as about minimizing. We both agree the Goverment has been saying all kinds of crap, changing weekly, but the data has always shown that people vacced can still get it and even die, but nowhere near the levels of the unvacced.

The vaccine failed, for whatever reason, to keep them out of the hospital. It is likely that, had they not received the antibodies, the vaccine would have failed at keeping them alive. The monoclonal antibodies did not fail, but rather succeeded in healing them despite the vaccine.

I'm hoping they mass-produce it. I'm not a provaccer BTW I feel many should not get it and many do not need it. I also think normal antibodies are better and should account for a reason not to get vacced, but I also feel the vaccines do work and there is a sizable group of the population that do need it.

What the Goverment has done with the vaccine, masks, lock down is criminal, and if we the people don't vote these sh!theads out and put people like Gov DeSantis in we deserve what we get.

That's the problem I have: the mandates. Not the (IMO poor quality) treatments or vaccines. As long as one has the ability to choose, without coercion, whether or not this medical decision is right for them, it's really none of my business. Unfortunately, that is not the case and mandates have been forced onto people for two years now. And the virus is still unabated. Something's not working!

TheRedneck

I'm a libertarian more than anything else. If you do not want the vaccine that is fine, if you are in a category that really needs the vaccine and you die from COVID I really don't care either, your choice. In the last two months I had 2 workers die from COVID and unvacced, I'm sad it happen, but it was their choice. One had cancer over years of it coming and going, got COVID and died 3 weeks later. The other was in their 50s and I think somewhat healthy, not sure, went like 2 months and finally died. My typical worker unvacced are being sick about 10 days, my typical vacced worker is like 3 days and much milder, so it seems over all the vaccine does do what it should, not the BS the Goverment keeps telling us.

a reply to: Xtrozero

To he honest, I can give a damn about these personal stories that drive people's beliefs though emotions and not logical thinking.

And there's your problem. If one only believes "official" stories, that person will never know what is true and what is not.

The vaccine is to prime the immune system pump so that that body can fight it off quicker and not get to the point of your aunts.

Which failed. As I said, both (aunt and uncle, in-laws both) were fully vaccinated and fully boosted. The vaccine failed to protect them. End of story.

Monoclonal antibodies are mainly used IF a person illness become sever, so two thumbs up on both.

Obviously. Antibodies themselves, without a matching target, are quickly removed by the body and produce no immunity response since they never attach to a target protein and stimulate more antibody production.

This could help explain why some people seem to have a hard time creating antibodies to this virus. It only makes sense that is the "officially scientific" explanation, since the official narrative keeps recommending more and more spike proteins to be introduced into the body.

As such, they are much less used drugs than the vaccines and actually require a doctor to be involved to use. Vaccines are being given by amateur volunteers. That may be a part of the problem, as if the vaccination is aspirated the chances of serious side effects is greatly lessened.

The reality is that the vaccines are keeping a hell of a lot of people out of the hospitals. Here are the stats recently in OR, and both OR and WA have been showing this whole last year that 80%+ of those going to the hospitals are unvacced.

These are statistics compiled by the same people who claim that masks work despite the virus still raging, that lockdowns work despite the virus still raging, that social distancing policies work despite the virus still raging... show me some actual success and we'll start analyzing those statistics.

That is statistics, not your two Aunts

Translation: Believe what I tell you to believe, not your own two lyin' eyes!

That might be a point if my experience was unique... but it seems to be far from unique based on the number of stories here that mirror what I have personally seen.

The vaccine was never about preventing as much as about minimizing. We both agree the Goverment has been saying all kinds of crap, changing weekly, but the data has always shown that people vacced can still get it and even die, but nowhere near the levels of the unvacced.

The missing piece of that conundrum is that no, no "vaccine" was ever about minimizing symptoms, until this one. This is the first "successful" vaccine in history that is not supposed to prevent the disease one is vaccinated against. A government agency changed the "official" definition of what a "vaccine" is, allowing this one to be called a "vaccine."

Some years back, when I asked for and received a tetanus vaccination, I did not do so in order to lessen my symptoms when I took tetanus. I did so to prevent contracting tetanus, since I was potentially exposed.

I'm hoping they mass-produce it. I'm not a provaccer BTW I feel many should not get it and many do not need it. I also think normal antibodies are better and should account for a reason not to get vacced, but I also feel the vaccines do work and there is a sizable group of the population that do need it.

The government seems to feel that everyone should get vaccinated, regardless of personal medical condition, regardless of personal objections, and regardless of what any independent vaccine studies show. So, since that is the official narrative, it behooves anyone to ensure that the opposing side's points get a fair hearing.

What the Goverment has done with the vaccine, masks, lock down is criminal, and if we the people don't vote these sh!theads out and put people like Gov DeSantis in we deserve what we get.

On that I will agree completely. However, to expect someone like Desantis (or, dare I say, even Trump again) to win an election after witnessing the wholesale theft of an election in 2020, strikes me as somewhat naive. Combating disinformation with information is the only non-violent tool we have left.

One could even say that the act of actively trying to censor information contrary to an official government narrative is akin to pressing for more violent means of combating criminal and tyrannical government actions. Would you not agree?

I'm a libertarian more than anything else.

I must say, then, that your previous posts to me have not indicated such. The government, along with the media, has been spreading lies for two full years about this virus, and once those lies are accepted by a majority of the population, using them to justify unconstitutional and invasive mandates. You seem quite intent on condoning that disinformation, which is itself a type of condonement of the policies that use such disinfo as their footing.

I do not advocate denying vaccination to anyone who wants it. I simply want everyone to have the full details so they can make an informed decision.

TheRedneck

Soo yesterday we had 32 people positive for "covid" at our military base, "all jabbed", today we have 23 more people positive and "jabbed"

What that tells you, we all have been scammed.

a reply to: marg6043

It tells me the vaccine that used to work no longer works, which is what you'd expect. There's a reason you need a new flu vaccine every year.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Yep but is not a "flu" is "covid" you need several boosters a year,

No thanks, I do not take the flu shot, even when is a choice, who said I want several boosters a year now.



Hell not.

originally posted by: TheRedneck

And there's your problem. If one only believes "official" stories, that person will never know what is true and what is not.
Which failed. As I said, both (aunt and uncle, in-laws both) were fully vaccinated and fully boosted. The vaccine failed to protect them. End of story.

I tend to look closer at the state level and lower. I think both sides are slinging crap so go to the level that is just pure statistical data. You are operating on emotional data, and there are so many variables you can not say one way or another if the vaccines actually help them or not. We can agree it didn't help them at the level your emotional data suggest it should, but what may have happen if they didn't have the vaccine too with their further treatment.

As such, they are much less used drugs than the vaccines and actually require a doctor to be involved to use. Vaccines are being given by amateur volunteers. That may be a part of the problem, as if the vaccination is aspirated the chances of serious side effects is greatly lessened.

I got mine at the VA from a nurse... Who knows, but serious side effects either way are rare, its just that the hype in reporting them makes them seem like more.

These are statistics compiled by the same people who claim that masks work despite the virus still raging, that lockdowns work despite the virus still raging, that social distancing policies work despite the virus still raging... show me some actual success and we'll start analyzing those statistics.

That is local level information. So once again don't get it roll the dice, don't care. What data do you trust? Israel?, local state level? Governor DeSantis? Texas? Or just put your fingers in your ears and hope for the best.

The missing piece of that conundrum is that no, no "vaccine" was ever about minimizing symptoms, until this one. This is the first "successful" vaccine in history that is not supposed to prevent the disease one is vaccinated against. A government agency changed the "official" definition of what a "vaccine" is, allowing this one to be called a "vaccine."

I believe ALL RNA based vaccines are leaky by the very nature of RNA. Go ahead and make up a new name for it, have at it. Maybe it needs a different name, but if it provides a lesser chance to get the virus and reducing the illness if I do get it, then its OK in my books.

Some years back, when I asked for and received a tetanus vaccination, I did not do so in order to lessen my symptoms when I took tetanus. I did so to prevent contracting tetanus, since I was potentially exposed.

Tetanus is 6 shots as a child and then one every 10 years, so what are you taking about? Tetanus is also caused by a bacterium and not a RNA based virus.

The government seems to feel that everyone should get vaccinated, regardless of personal medical condition, regardless of personal objections, and regardless of what any independent vaccine studies show. So, since that is the official narrative, it behooves anyone to ensure that the opposing side's points get a fair hearing.

Well the Goverment is wrong, and in many ways... As Biden was saying kids 5+ need to get it, I highly disagree, England was saying they have removed all mandates, all mask requirements, all isolations, all school closers etc etc.

One could even say that the act of actively trying to censor information contrary to an official government narrative is akin to pressing for more violent means of combating criminal and tyrannical government actions. Would you not agree?

I agree, I think it all should be out in the open and then we can debate it. Doesn't help when the Government is untrustworthy that swaps back and forth while our leaders do not even follow their own mandates and restrictions.

I must say, then, that your previous posts to me have not indicated such. The government, along with the media, has been spreading lies for two full years about this virus, and once those lies are accepted by a majority of the population, using them to justify unconstitutional and invasive mandates. You seem quite intent on condoning that disinformation, which is itself a type of condonement of the policies that use such disinfo as their footing.

I do not advocate denying vaccination to anyone who wants it. I simply want everyone to have the full details so they can make an informed decision.

TheRedneck

And talking about whether the vaccine works or not, or is dangerous or not to me is a totally different conversation than talking about the totalitarianism that our Goverment has gone to in recent times, but we tend to mix the two into the same bucket.

a reply to: marg6043

Except you don't need several boosters, boosters were started after the virus mutated as a way of trying to make the vaccine work against a strain it was not designed for. There is no reason the covid vaccine can't be a yearly vaccine like the flu.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Sure, be my guess, you take as many boosters as you want, I will be just fine, after learning what covid is or not, I have nothing to fear.

Nothing a dose of xlear and zcam will do the trick the next time I feel like coming down with something.

a reply to: marg6043

Your reply makes literally no sense in regards to what I posted.

a reply to: marg6043

You were lucky now, and you should fear it. Especially since you're opting out of taking shots. Just saying. Dodging a bullet once doesn't make you immortal. Corona is very very bad and it's killing lots of people. Btw, masks are not meant to protect you. It's for protecting others against you, if you're infected and don't know it yet.

a reply to: Hellmutt

So she should take the vaccine that has no data showing it does anything for Omicron, and should be terrified when she has actual antibodies that will protect her?

a reply to: Xtrozero

England was saying they have removed all mandates, all mask requirements, all isolations, all school closers etc etc.

Not removed mandate for jabs for NHS staff as yet though.

Take care of yourself, try out some natural supplements that will surely help to fight the COVID symptoms. Try to eat some green vegetables, so that your immunity will boost

a reply to: Xtrozero

There is no accurate statistical data on the Chinese virus. Governments have been screwing up and skewing the data since this thing first showed up on the news. The PCR tests are inaccurate... they depend on the number of amplification cycles to produce an observable amount of material, and there is no standardization as to how many cycles are used. There is some question as to whether or not the genome sequence is truly unique, or if it exists in minuscule amounts in other than just this virus.

The hospitalization/deaths are grossly over-reported. The moment the US government decided that treatment for the virus would be free to the patient, it incentivized every single hospital in the country, a great many of which were barely solvent as it was, to report as many patients as "COVID-19" cases as they could. The requirement for this reporting varies widely from state-to-state, and even hospital-to-hospital... one hospital may only require a caretaker to document symptoms, while another may require a positive PCR test. The purpose of this over-reporting is so the hospital can be paid. Insurance typically only covers a certain percentage, after co-pay and deductible, which means much of the cost is still borne by the patient and must be collected. If, however, the patient is being treated for (or dies of) the Chinese virus, the entire bill is paid in full. (And please, for once, do not insult my intelligence with some cockamamie talking point about how under-reported they actually are; that's absolute BS and we both know it, so just don't go there.)

At the same time, I believe cases are being under-reported and over-reported. I do believe there is a money-based narrative behind this virus which causes over-reporting, and the tests are also churning out likely false positives. There is a stigma surrounding a positive test, however, likely brought about by the inordinate demands that were at one time placed on anyone with a positive test. These range from two weeks without a job or income, to two weeks unable to leave one's home to buy supplies. the result of this is that many people are avoiding testing whenever possible... I know I have not been and if at all possible never will be tested.

In short, the statistics are no more than rough guesses now. It would be wonderful if we could actually rely on and analyze statistics from the last two years to help us develop a methodology of treatment that actually works; alas, that will now likely never happen.

What data do you trust? Israel?, local state level? Governor DeSantis? Texas? Or just put your fingers in your ears and hope for the best.

Research that I can verify. Really, that's about it. Eyewitness reports to some degree. A few news reports that seem to buck the official narrative, but those are few and far between.

I have gone through some pretty detailed explanations with you about how this virus operates. All of that info is gleaned from various medical papers that have not been in the news.

I believe ALL RNA based vaccines are leaky by the very nature of RNA. Go ahead and make up a new name for it, have at it. Maybe it needs a different name, but if it provides a lesser chance to get the virus and reducing the illness if I do get it, then its OK in my books.

There is no reason for that to be true. mRNA works, and does so by a pretty simple process. mRNA is created to produce the target protein; mRNA molecules are encased in lipids and injected; lipids are consumed by cells, gaining cellular entry to the mRNA molecules; mitochondria use the mRNA molecules to create the target proteins; the target proteins present themselves to the body's immune system as foreign invaders.

Nothing in that description makes me consider mRNA injections to be "leaky." The fact that we are seeing so much "leakiness" is likely more a testament to the veracity of this particular virus, not the methodology used to create the target protein.

Incidentally, if you wanted and received the injections, more power to ya. I hope it works out well for you.

Tetanus is 6 shots as a child and then one every 10 years, so what are you taking about? Tetanus is also caused by a bacterium and not a RNA based virus.

At the time, it had been well over ten years since my last tetanus vaccine. I was working around rusty nails which were in rotten red cedar... if you know your woods, you know that means a prime breeding ground for tetanus.

That was used to show that I am not "anti-vax." I am anti-this-vax for me and am certainly opposed vehemently to any mandates whatsoever.

And talking about whether the vaccine works or not, or is dangerous or not to me is a totally different conversation than talking about the totalitarianism that our Goverment has gone to in recent times, but we tend to mix the two into the same bucket.

That's because the mandates are predicated on the vaccine being safe and effective. No one would support such mandates if the vaccine was believed to be unsafe or if the vaccine was believed to be ineffective. Therefore, the question of safety and effectiveness of the vaccines is integral to the concept of vaccine mandates.

At the same time, the mandates are also based on the virus being "deadly." It is not, if (and I will admit this is a big if) and only if treatments are allowed to be utilized without political interference. Of course, the opposite has happened, so the virus is still potentially deadly: a hydroxychloroquine treatment was reportedly used successfully by some doctors; the claims were subjected to testing wherein the entire treatment regiment was not used, and the resulting planned failure was widely publicized... and when that didn't persuade enough people to not use the treatment, attempts were made to criminalize the use of hydroxychloroquine (despite it being considered safe for decades). Ivermectin had a similar timeline. Monoclonal antibodies were rationed over artificial considerations to deny them to patients in need. simply put, the virus is only "deadly" because it is supposed to be deadly.

I won't even go into the number of people who were quite literally murdered by placing positive patients into high-risk areas to promote the spread of the disease.

I fail to understand how anyone can look at the totality of the situation and not see that the claim of danger or no is tied directly to the ability of the government to bring their policies to fruition.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: TheRedneck


There is no accurate statistical data on the Chinese virus.

Bold ass statement there... None around the whole world? Even your local hospital is lying...geez get real.. I already said I like to look at the state level as to what is being reported as to who is in our hospitals that are either vaccinated or not. Very simple straightforward data and the unvacc are pretty much 80% plus this whole last year.

How many people are in the hospitals and how many are vacced or unvacced

Soo this very interesting, a lot of my close's friends are getting the same symptoms I had, some with fever and sore throat some do not, none had to be rushed to the hospital because of no been able to breath and those that are recovering said they were better by day 5 and 6.

I do not think this version of the virus required any boosters, let me tell you, many of my friends are not in the best of health either.

I am very happy they are doing well and getting natural immunity.

I truly believe the variant is the cure, but that is my personal opinion.

Imho...any parents who deny their minor children to get legally vaccinated for COVID-19, borders on child abuse.

a reply to: Erno86

The real child abuse is mandating children to get a vaccine that likely has more chance to cause harm than to help.