How can unvax people spread covid if they aren't infected

a reply to: nugget1

It's not really an intelligence issue. It's a logic issue. When I was in school, I took a specific classes in logical thinking processes as part of my computer programming classes.

Students are simply not taught logical thinking any more. It's as simple as that. They can't fathom what they are incapable of thinking through observation, comparison, deduction, determining facts. Is it the lack of patience or the "I want it now" society? Maybe but the fact remains that a lot of people can't put 2 and 2 together any more.

Example: Big hearings in Michigan about gasoline prices, all the bigwigs were grilled. They sat there and said it takes time for gas prices to go down because that expensive oil takes time to get through the system. Then they turned around and said that the prices go up so fast because the oil supply chain is so short.

And the politicians bought it.

originally posted by: billxam
a reply to: nugget1

It's not really an intelligence issue. It's a logic issue. When I was in school, I took a specific classes in logical thinking processes as part of my computer programming classes.

Students are simply not taught logical thinking any more. It's as simple as that. They can't fathom what they are incapable of thinking through observation, comparison, deduction, determining facts. Is it the lack of patience or the "I want it now" society? Maybe but the fact remains that a lot of people can't put 2 and 2 together any more.

Example: Big hearings in Michigan about gasoline prices, all the bigwigs were grilled. They sat there and said it takes time for gas prices to go down because that expensive oil takes time to get through the system. Then they turned around and said that the prices go up so fast because the oil supply chain is so short.

And the politicians bought it.

I think you are spot on.
If one wants to see how society thinks these days , which I do since this societies way is much different then in America. I go to the mall and order coffee at McDonald's and really watch peoples behavior . It amazing once you start pondering on peoples way of their unusual actions on how they behave. Its really strange.

originally posted by: DAVID64
a reply to: TzarChasm

Of course there's also the possibility that you can survive without the jab but it's like surviving a high speed bike accident wearing only a t shirt and a ball cap. FWIW.

Had Covid. Not vaccinated. Still here.

Wife had it.
Son had it.
Daughter had it.

None vaccinated. All still here.

Of course you all are. You had a 99.5+ % chance of surviving it. About the same if you had the FLU in 2019

originally posted by: vNex92
How could a boosted vaxed person get infected if they were fully boosted with four doses i do not understand this.

Because the "mutations" in Omicron are designed to evade the vaccine.

As a result, any mutation on the S protein RBD would cause immediate concerns about the efficacy of existing vaccines, mAbs and the potential of reinfection.

Omicron (B.1.1.529): Infectivity, vaccine breakthrough, and antibody resistance]/b]

Omicron has 32 or more mutations on the spike protein. Delta only had 6 mutations. The way the vaccine works is that the vaccine injects a modified Covid spikr protein and has your immune system. respond to it.

If the spike protein has a bunch of mutations, then the vaccine becomes ineffective.

B.1.1.529 OMICRON Mutations

1. D614G- In all Covid Mutations since early 2020
2. Delta69-70 - S-Gene Target Failure comes from Alpha
3. T95I, comes from Delta
4. G14D/Delta143-145, comes from Delta
5. K417N mutation known to break thru vaccines, comes from Beta, also seen in a Delta Plus strain
6. T478K mutation known to break thru vaccines,comes from Delta
7. N501Y, mutation known to break thru vaccines, increases speed of transmission, found in Alpha, Beta, Gamma RBD
8. H665Y, comes from Gamma
9. N679K, comes from Gamma sublineages
10. P681H, comes from Alpha furin cleavage
11. A67V came from VUI- B.1.525
12. N440K, increases transmissability this mutation helps Covid bind better in the lungs, comes from VUI- B.1.628, which was a Delta Plus Variant that supposedly only circulated in Southern India and phased out.
13. E484A, mutation known to break thru vaccines, key RBD site
14. G339D, near mab binding
15. S371L, near mab binding
16. S373P, near mab binding
17. S375F, near mab binding
18. S477N, predicted in evolutionary models regarding ACE2 binding
19. Q498R, mutation known to break thru vaccines, predicted in evolutionary models regarding ACE2 binding
20. Delta211/L212I, NEW
21. ins214EPE, NEW
22. G446S, NEW
23. Q493K, mutation known to break thru vaccines, NEW
24. G496S, mutation known to break thru vaccines, NEW
25. Y505H, mutation known to break thru vaccines, NEW
26. T547K, NEW
27. N764K, NEW
28. D796Y, NEW
29. N856K, NEW
30. Q954H, NEW
31. N969K, NEW
32. L981F, NEW

Straw Man

Who says the unvaccinated can spread the virus is they don't have it? Of course they cannot. Just as the vaccinated cannot.

However, the unvaccinated are more likely to become seriously ill - and require hospital treatment* - if they come into contact with anyone - vaccinated or unvaccinated - who does have the virus and may be spreading it without realising it.

* and in casse we we forgot, all along the measures have been about reducing the numbers requiring hospital treatment, lest hospitals get overwhelmed.

originally posted by: jerich0
a reply to: DAVID64



And if you know us Aussies, that's going to go down like a brick dunny.

You Aussies will do as your told or you'll be on the first Coffin ship down to Ol Blighty.

originally posted by: musicismagic
This is a real question . If the unvax aren't infected just how the heck are they spreading the virus. I bring this up because now in this country, the vax are actually spreading the new corona. Also , currently the vaccine does not stop you from getting the covid. IT IS USELESS. But the selling point is one MIGHT get less sick. Where's the evidence. Seems the news is telling us the ICU are being filled up again . Vax or unvax , hiding the truth.

Unvaxxed are more likely to be 8 infected and are more likely to infect others, and the sources in my signature demonstrate clearly that vaxxing reducing covid to a common cold among the vaxxed.

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: musicismagic
This is a real question . If the unvax aren't infected just how the heck are they spreading the virus. I bring this up because now in this country, the vax are actually spreading the new corona. Also , currently the vaccine does not stop you from getting the covid. IT IS USELESS. But the selling point is one MIGHT get less sick. Where's the evidence. Seems the news is telling us the ICU are being filled up again . Vax or unvax , hiding the truth.

At some point, everyone will be a carrier of the virus. Vaccinated or not, you will have the virus in your body and it will be contagious - but the antibodies not so much. I've been hearing from a lot of people across the spectrum of platforms that being sick and unvaccinated is 10x worse than getting sick after your vaccination. It saves on medical expenses and resources in a healthcare industry that was barely sufficient to begin with. Of course there's also the possibility that you can survive without the jab but it's like surviving a high speed bike accident wearing only a t shirt and a ball cap. FWIW.

This is more of that liberal logic, I keep talking about. Applying abstract thoughts to concrete ideas. It really is a mental illness.
Covid is not a motorcycle crash.

originally posted by: shasta9600

originally posted by: DAVID64
a reply to: TzarChasm

Of course there's also the possibility that you can survive without the jab but it's like surviving a high speed bike accident wearing only a t shirt and a ball cap. FWIW.

Had Covid. Not vaccinated. Still here.

Wife had it.
Son had it.
Daughter had it.

None vaccinated. All still here.

Of course you all are. You had a 99.5+ % chance of surviving it. About the same if you had the FLU in 2019

In 2019 there were 30 million cases of the flu in the United States. I’m 2020 there were less than two thousand cases of the flu.
This will never be reconciled in my mind

originally posted by: Whereistheflu

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: musicismagic
This is a real question . If the unvax aren't infected just how the heck are they spreading the virus. I bring this up because now in this country, the vax are actually spreading the new corona. Also , currently the vaccine does not stop you from getting the covid. IT IS USELESS. But the selling point is one MIGHT get less sick. Where's the evidence. Seems the news is telling us the ICU are being filled up again . Vax or unvax , hiding the truth.

At some point, everyone will be a carrier of the virus. Vaccinated or not, you will have the virus in your body and it will be contagious - but the antibodies not so much. I've been hearing from a lot of people across the spectrum of platforms that being sick and unvaccinated is 10x worse than getting sick after your vaccination. It saves on medical expenses and resources in a healthcare industry that was barely sufficient to begin with. Of course there's also the possibility that you can survive without the jab but it's like surviving a high speed bike accident wearing only a t shirt and a ball cap. FWIW.

This is more of that liberal logic, I keep talking about. Applying abstract thoughts to concrete ideas. It really is a mental illness.
Covid is not a motorcycle crash.

Sources in my signature back this up.

originally posted by: Whereistheflu

originally posted by: shasta9600

originally posted by: DAVID64
a reply to: TzarChasm

Of course there's also the possibility that you can survive without the jab but it's like surviving a high speed bike accident wearing only a t shirt and a ball cap. FWIW.

Had Covid. Not vaccinated. Still here.

Wife had it.
Son had it.
Daughter had it.

None vaccinated. All still here.

Of course you all are. You had a 99.5+ % chance of surviving it. About the same if you had the FLU in 2019

In 2019 there were 30 million cases of the flu in the United States. I’m 2020 there were less than two thousand cases of the flu.
This will never be reconciled in my mind

In the EU, maybe, but not in the US. US mortality rate is 1.4 percent now. But its the people being bankrupted by critical care costs that is really going to haunt the US for a generation.

Sources are in my signature.

a reply to: AaarghZombies

The sources in my signature say the sources in your signature are evil propagandist who would shut the world down because they have declared war on the middle class.

a reply to: AaarghZombies
Not everyone can see 'your signature'.....it does not show on phone.

If you are vaxxed.... you 'don't get as sick.'

Doesn't that increase the likelihood that the vaxxed will be infected without knowing it?

If they don't know they have it, they will not quarantine, increasing the spread.

a reply to: AaarghZombies

Unvaxxed are more likely to be 8 infected and are more likely to infect others, and the sources in my signature demonstrate clearly that vaxxing reducing covid to a common cold among the vaxxed.

There certainly seems to be a lot of hospitalizations for this "common cold" among those who are "vaccinated."

I use quotes around the word "vaccinated" because the definition has changed. Not very long ago, one who was "vaccinated" against a disease had a very high likelihood of never contracting said disease at all. That meant they were not contagious, and not ill with the disease. There were breakout cases, but they were very rare. Today, no one is seriously claiming that vaccination against the Chinese virus will either keep one from being sick with it, or that being vaccinated will keep someone from being contagious. However, normal people do not keep up with the latest "double-speak" every morning before they start their day; to me, being vaccinated means I have virtually no chance of getting or spreading the disease. Therefore, people "vaccinated" against the Chinese virus will likely not take any additional precautions against spreading it.

That's what happens when you start changing definitions.

US mortality rate is 1.4 percent now. But its the people being bankrupted by critical care costs that is really going to haunt the US for a generation.

Since 1.4% of 300,000,000 (roughly the population of the US) is 4,200,000, and since there has not been 4.2 million people dead from the Chinese virus in the US, I will consider that 1.4% a percentage of known infections. I say "known" infections since this virus is notorious for being asymptomatic in many cases (roughly half last I heard). I suspect that a great many people also do not run to a doctor every time they have a cough or sniffle. I know I don't. I am recovering from something resembling the flu right now: 100 degree fever, chills, body aches, and finally I am left with a very sore throat. I saw no doctor; I took no medicine. I just covered up with hot water bottles and let my fever do what it is designed to do. Two days, and I wasn't completely down but about 8 hours. My wife took it, of course... she took medicine for it, but a similar timeline. My houseguest told me this morning he has it... probably will be similar to my wife. No doctor needed. Doctors are for severe illness or trauma.

Believe it or not, that is how most people think and live.

So that cuts your 1.4% figure by at least half, since at least half of those infected were asymptomatic and more likely did not get tested or even bother with a doctor.

As to the cost... either insurance or the Federal government pays the costs of Chinese virus treatments. That's why the hospitals were listing people who died of vehicle accidents with death from the Chinese virus: that way they got paid easily. So unless something has changed on that (and while I believe Biden has mentioned stopping Federal assistance, I don't think he has done so yet), no one is being financially damaged by medical bills related to the Chinese virus.

Perhaps you meant the cost to the Federal government? That will be a problem, but it won't be something that will "haunt the US for a generation." It will be something that might, combined with all the other crazy spending, destroy the US economy for much, much longer than just a generation. So I assume you weren't referring to that.

Sources are in my signature.

That's nice. Don't need them. Your own statements are self-contradictory enough, so why bother with more people who can't get their story straight either?

I'm debating you, not a bunch of links. Links to back up data from official resources are a good thing; links that give opinions that happen to agree with yours are useless as tits on a boar hog.

TheRedneck