China claims to have hypersonic infrared tracking ability that can counter the F-22

The following article claims that China has the ability to acquire targets, including the F-22, via infrared using its hypersonic missile capability in tandem with the YLC-8E radar system.

Chinese scientists have claimed that they have produced next-generation hypersonic weapons with infrared homing advancements that the US military may not have until 2025.

According to the researchers, heat-seeking capabilities allow Chinese hypersonic missiles to home in on practically any target with remarkable accuracy and speed, including stealth aircraft, ships, and even moving vehicles on the street.

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Earlier, China had showcased what was touted to be revolutionary radar at the Zhuhai airshow, as previously reported by the EurAsian Times. Called the YLC-8E, it was described as the world’s first anti-stealth radar system operating in the UFH band, as well as a pioneer in special high-frequency radar technology and active phase-controlled array radar combined with a revolutionary anti-stealth sharp device.

At Americas’ Mercy: Why France’s ‘Highly Prized’ Rafale Fighter Jets Are Dependent On US Approvals For Their Export
The YLC-8E system has been promoted by the Chinese as a “super radar” that can identify American F-22 and F-35 fighter jets. Now, combined with the infrared homing or heat-seeking hypersonic missiles, China seems to be sending a signal to the United States that its Raptors might not be danger-proof from a Chinese attack.

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Heat sensing at hypersonic speeds is difficult, but senior scientist Professor Yi Shihe said in a study published on December 15 in the domestic peer-reviewed journal Air and Space Defence that China has accomplished “a number of basic technology advances that have been proven effective in tests.”

In an article, Yi stated, “Precision guidance with infrared imaging technology is a force multiplier for hypersonic weapons.”

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The surface of a missile becomes so hot at high Mach numbers that the heat signal of a target can be drowned by background noise. Because no glass material could endure the intense heat and shock waves, the infrared window would fracture.

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The Chinese researchers used an air-blowing device to create a small layer of chilly air in front of the infrared window, lowering the heat on the glass. This strategy has been tried before but failed because the cooling air could generate severe turbulence, distorting the heat signal and resulting in a blurry, flickering, and less accurate placement of the target.

With a series of discoveries, Yi’s team was able to address this challenge. To eliminate signal distortion, they built a small, light device that could emit a very cold stream of inert gas at more than three times the speed of sound.

They were able to cram 40 micro-vortex generators into the air-cooling apparatus in order to generate airflows that could break up the turbulence. They also devised a new mathematical model that enabled them to better forecast and minimize optical distortion as missiles accelerated and homed in on targets at varying attack angles, according to the SCMP report published on December 31.

Source: F-22 Raptor: China Says Can Shoot-Down World’s Top Stealth Jet ‘Within Seconds’ With New Heat-Seeking Hypersonic Missile

If this is true, it doesn't seem as if the target would have much time to deploy any countermeasures to spoof the missile because of its closing speed.

I also wonder why China would allow this information to be made public? It would only heighten the US's resolve to close the gap in the hypersonic arms race and their deterrents. Perhaps it is propaganda to make the US reconsider stationing these assets close to China in defense of Taiwan.

The hypersonic arms race is heating up at a fast clip and it appears that China has a strategic advantage; at least publicly. We can only guess as to what classified developments other countries have developed in regards to hypersonic capabilites.

It's so nice of America to have spent the last few decades insuring China becomes the number one world power. They couldn't have done it without the help of China Mitch, China Joe, Big Pharma, and all the manufacturers who've only had their best interests and profits at heart.
I'd say 'wake up, people' but it's a little late for that. You might just as well stay asleep.

a reply to: majesticgent

I defer entirely to Zaphod on this. Maybe moved to his forum

originally posted by: nugget1
It's so nice of America to have spent the last few decades ensuring China becomes the number one world power.

To this point. China has done a great job of espionage across the board getting others' plans, reverse engineering them, which gave them a nice head start. Now they are ahead of the rest of the world in certain technological aspects militarily.

originally posted by: MDDoxs
a reply to: majesticgent

I defer entirely to Zaphod on this. Maybe moved to his forum

I really was questioning which forum to place this. Hopefully, the mods move it to the right place if needed.

a reply to: majesticgent

China also claimed to have the first quantum radar, which would render stealth obsolete, which turned out to have a range of about 60 miles.

Just a little something I picked up over the years. The people that brag about having this and having that usually don’t have squat. It’s the quiet ones you need to look out for.

I’m no leading expert on secret weapons but I’m sure there are weapons civilians / taxpayers will never see or hear of in our lifetime.

depends wat the US can steal from other country's... looking into history there is very less the US devellopt them self
starting with the sidewinder wich they stole from an suisse inventor

a reply to: majesticgent

First they have to acquire a target with the radar to even guide the missile for it to be close enough to be effective.

Good luck with that.

a reply to: Zaphod58

Correct. Also the US strategy for China deterrence isn’t predicated in attacking mainland China. I’m pretty sure those radars would be worthless if conflicts breaks out over the Pacific.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: majesticgent

China also claimed to have the first quantum radar, which would render stealth obsolete, which turned out to have a range of about 60 miles.

Yeah part of me thinks it's a bluff to make the US think twice about deploying them in the theater. Not seeing a strategic advantage in releasing the info even if they do have the capability.

originally posted by: grey580
a reply to: majesticgent

First they have to acquire a target with the radar to even guide the missile for it to be close enough to be effective.

Good luck with that.

I wondered this too. The article didn't specify a delivery system. I doubt it's a fighter, so it must be some type of surface-to-air missile which is guided towards the general area of the target via radar and then the IR tracker kicks in.

The bigger threat would be the ability to have standoff weapons launched from long distances which hone in on targets via their IR signature along with any other guidance that it may have.

a reply to: majesticgent

I'm going to assume hidden launch pads or mobile pads. Something that would be easy to hide or move around.

However I doubt that they would even get to use them. They are assuming that the US would ever get close enough for them to use that. We'd make sure all those would be out of service before attacking.

a reply to: ressiv

Not sure that’s a valid statement, much of the tech that China has was stolen from the USA. From industrial, to military.

Hypersonics are not intended in a general sense to take out aircraft and those sorts of fast moving targets. It has been intended to be a long range, precision strike on large key infrastructure like radar sites, key command and control sites, runways, ships, bridges, etc. in a way that is difficult to defend given the timeline and low-fast target.

The fact that it could still use infrared tracking is not a real game-changer though it might make some targets easier to make a precision hit.

My personal take on hypersonic defense is that it is going to have to be reliant on a combination of overhead sensors and defense systems at or near the intended target location (conventional and/or EA). There is time to track, estimate an intended target and call ahead, but chasing it isn't the answer. There will probably be an assortment of at-site defenses being developed/deployed.

It still isn't a huge game-changer as there are really only two scenarios where they would be used. One is a major power doing a preemptive strike to wipe out another major power's defenses before a nuclear attack (basically the same mutually assured destruction that already exists), or a superpower taking out some larger infrastructure in a preemptive lopsided war with a smaller power.

a reply to: majesticgent

First there is NO WEAPONS TECH that does not have a counter measure that is developed to beat it.

it is a continuous we have A so they make B to counter and we make C to counter B, ect ect ect.

so this concept of something to target and destroy our F-22 and "stealth" is not unrealistic.

second.. the claim "they cant do this" and/or "this tech is not stoppable" has been disproven OVER AND OVER for the history of warfare.
i could go into examples how the "mighty USA (or insert country of your choice) " tech is the best/unbeatable has ended in disaster with much loss of life .

third.

I think people here (and the article is directly or indirectly implying it) are mixing together two different parts / tech as one thing.

it is a hypersonic missile that is to kill the target with an infrared TARGETING SYSTEM designed to target the F-22 and stealth.

lets start with the "infrared" tracking system.
taking it at face value (imo probably underrated) that it has detection/engaging stealth and F-22 at 60 miles.

when taken that most aircraft cannot launch weapons at Mach speeds (even bombers) if it is detected at that range you have some time (yes small but is there) / window to engage.

if they are going Mach 1 plus alot of stealth abilities are lost and standard detection methods (radar and infrared to name two) become much more effective.

Now to the hypersonic missile.

a hypersonic anything means something going mach 5 or greater.


now that you detected the aircraft the abilities of the hypersonic missile come into play.

again almost all aircraft have to go sub sonic to launch weapons.. maybe some can (like on a bombing run) launch a weapon at that speed.. but its still (for lack of a better description) going to be going straight for some amount of time to launch said weapons.
even at mach speed at most going to be Mach 2 with more likely between Mach 1+

the hypersonic missile will be going 5 times plus that speed (maybe even faster).

in perspective the aircraft will be going much SLOWER than the missile by factor depending if sub sonic or mach 1-2.
it is like trying to dodge someone shooting a bullet at you , targeted center mass .
your "speed" even if a bruce lee martial artist is so much slower than the bullet you (unless in an action movie) not gonna get out of the way in time.

so that 60 mile detection range even if dropped 10 miles due to time of target/launch (btw every country has computer systems more than capable for this task and fast too) that leaves 50 miles to be covered by a missile going a minimum 3836.35 miles an hour..

almost no time to react if the system works as currently claimed.
we also dont know its maneuverability (to try again if missed) , if it has a proximity fuse and what that blast range would be.

to sum it up

we KNOW china is not a "backwater" country and can / does make weapons to match and even defeat US systems/weapons.

to continue this "weenie waving" denial the outcome can be seen in when this was applied in such conflicts as WWII , korea, and Vietnam.

only this time with our mentality of having enough weapons/supplies for a "60 day conflict" , thinking our technical superiority will beat numbers (how that work out for germany in WWII) , and that we dont have the luxury of time/distance like we enjoyed in WWII (for example) to learn from our arrogance/mistakes.

we need to take this SERIOUSLY .

scrounger

Good luck flying all them there airplanes if everyone is sick with a bio weapon… wait a minute 😯

From what I read a few years ago 5G would be necessary to develop hypersonic weapons.

Russia has been developing hypersonics also. Google says about Russia's hypersonic weapons: 10 air-launched Khinzal ballistic missile and the sea-launched Zircon anti-ship missile, and the Mach 27 Avangard, a nuclear-armed glider boosted high into the atmosphere atop an ICBM.

Reference:
nationalinterest.org/blog/reboot/does-us-army-really-need-hypersonic-missiles-181555

a reply to: majesticgent

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: majesticgent

China also claimed to have the first quantum radar, which would render stealth obsolete, which turned out to have a range of about 60 miles.

Has the ccp ever even seen or detected an f22 rigged for combat?

My only 'source' says definitely not, cause they NEVER fly them 'hot'.

If this is true, doesn't that mean ccp is just making sh1t up again?

YLC-8E radar system

hmm... cup noodle radar system