Scientists Just Busted This Super-Common Gluten Myth

a reply to: BlueJacket

Cool, thank you! I'll do some research and likely give it a try. My two threads have produced a lot of good info from members, and I have a lot of things that I can try now. I feel my threads proved very productive for me and hopefully some others who are having similar problems.

a reply to: rickymouse

Thank you for looking.

Genopalate just got me by offering a 70% discount for the holiday. I may end up regretting it, as it looks as if I may have to sit through a 45-minute counseling session before I am able to view my results. 

originally posted by: tamusan
a reply to: rickymouse

Thank you for looking.

Genopalate just got me by offering a 70% discount for the holiday. I may end up regretting it, as it looks as if I may have to sit through a 45-minute counseling session before I am able to view my results. 

My youngest daughter got one of those companies to do a complete blood profile and urinalysis complete to get insight into why she had a thrombosis event. When she got the report back the recommendations were almost exactly what I told her to do with diet and nutrients...she didn't pay attention to what I was saying because I do not have any degrees in the subject, just took twenty six specialized classes on line and at that point had only ten years of extensive research into genetics and biochemistry. I also was given three alchemy books, so I figured if Doctors can experiment on me, why can't I and in reality I have spent a thousand times as much time evaluating everything in my lifetime, with nine hundred of those as much time evaluations being in the last fifteen years. It is more important to me to figure things out so they do not become a problem than going to a doctor and have him/her/they just treat the symptoms after I am already experiencing the illness or condition. I have had no tachychardia events that caused me to need beta blockers in the last twelve to thirteen years, I learned what was causing them and adjusted my diet through research and personal trial and error experimentation and evaluation. I wish I had known this when my fathers brothers were alive, some foods trigger events if you eat them. Small changes in diet and recipes can cure a lot of the genetic diseases, sure my heart still beats at over a hundred beats per minute when awake and sitting down talking or typing, but it does not go into an almost AFIB state anymore which was a problem. The spinny head events are controlled by a glutamine supplement to moderate the muscles from releasing chemicals that dialate the blood vessels. which caused my blood pressure to dive and I got dizzy, a problem that has plagued some of my relatives too who had the hereditary tachychardia.

Also consuming a lot of foods containing nitrites or nitrates causes it to get worse, too much salad can give me lightheadedness, as can braunsweiner or hot dogs if I eat too much. Nitrites and nitrates form NO2 to form that again dialates the arteries and veins which will cause my BP to drop. Evidently my heart pumps lightly but fast, but when needed it kicks in it's turbochargers, which can make sure blood flows to parts of the body when veins are restricted by bending things. Everyone has this problem, if you put too much pressure in the cuff or too small of a BP cuff, it triggers the turbocharger to kick in on everyone. The doctor could make it appear that you have high blood pressure by jacking up the cuff pressure too high. The information is found in literature from the manufacturers of the blood pressure meters, they should tell everyone using a blood pressure cuff this, most people don't know this even though it is found in multiple places that are available to view in medicine.

I can't even feel the pulse in my neck very often, I guess there are some kind of valves or balloon like places somewhere that turn the pulse into a more steady flow in the neck area. If they work correctly there is not a defined pulse there. These valves do not really exist in the arms, so you can feel the pulse in your arms, they are just in supplies to the brain and some organs, or built into organs or organelles in cells.. Again dietary choices influence these things to work right, you do not eat a pizza before going to bed and expect to get a good night sleep which helps to increase cellular and muscle repair, unless of course you are a night owl, because it keeps you up when you eat it then go out drinking.

Timing of foods is important, you do not drink orange juice then go out in the sun working in the garden, it has coumadin in it, some with berries, the body metabolizes them out after two or three hours and then risk of sunburn and skin cancer forming is lessened. The result of this is necessity of sun blockers....the people pushing berries and veggies as healthy haven't thought things through and then everyone needs sun blockers to stay healthy. eat that fruit in the evening after the bright sun is gone, or if you are working in an office all day, it is ok but beware not to eat it if you are working outdoors...just time consumption. This goes for screwdriver drinks too, they should not be consumed at outdoor parties or if you are going to be going to the beach from a tavern during the day, just drink them when the sun is low or stay in the tavern till it is.

I try to apply what I learn so people can utilize the info in their life, berries are good for us, but when to eat or not eat them needs to be known. If you eat strawberries out in the field, you raise the risk of cancer, or like me, I start to sweat a lot when picking berries, the elements of the sweat protect the skin that way. Nutrition science has lots to learn, they never listened to their parents, my dad told me not to eat berries when picking them, he did not know why, his parents told him, it was passed down for generations and for generations the reason why may not have been passed down, and back then it was an observation, not science, eating berries in the field increases the chance you will burn or can make your gut turn if the blood porphyrins are released that are stored in the skin area too fast, causing all sorts of problems.

Man, I kind of get carried away and off topic a lot, but this is important information for people to know something about.

a reply to: rickymouse

It's obvious to me that you have put considerable effort into learning and understanding these subjects. I don't feel that one necessarily needs an advanced education to be an expert in something. Many famous scientists lacked advanced degrees. Einstein only had a single bachelor's degree in mathematics and natural sciences. All of his advanced degrees were honorary. It's unfortunate that your daughter doesn't recognize and respect that you can indeed be considered an expert, despite lacking a formal education. Intelligence and advanced degrees also often do not correlate. Some of the dumbest people I know have been among those I have worked alongside in my professional career. I only get aggravated with people who make assumptions when it's clear they don't even have a grasp on the most basic concepts of the matter. I also get aggravated when people use a study to say something that it is not saying. 

originally posted by: tamusan
a reply to: rickymouse

It's obvious to me that you have put considerable effort into learning and understanding these subjects. I don't feel that one necessarily needs an advanced education to be an expert in something. Many famous scientists lacked advanced degrees. Einstein only had a single bachelor's degree in mathematics and natural sciences. All of his advanced degrees were honorary. It's unfortunate that your daughter doesn't recognize and respect that you can indeed be considered an expert, despite lacking a formal education. Intelligence and advanced degrees also often do not correlate. Some of the dumbest people I know have been among those I have worked alongside in my professional career. I only get aggravated with people who make assumptions when it's clear they don't even have a grasp on the most basic concepts of the matter. I also get aggravated when people use a study to say something that it is not saying. 

After my daughter spent two grand on those tests and evaluations and the resulting recommendations came out almost exactly as I said, I think she realized that she should start listening to me.

I took the classes to be able to communicate what I had found with doctors and professionals better, I did not learn in the normal way using their words and programming, I had no box to fit into but I had to learn to talk to those in their boxes.

Those who do get degrees often believe the boxes they are in are great, that their boxes are nicer than others boxes because they have never actually seen the outside to see what their box looks like....it is the same as all the other boxes people have been conditioned to believe are necessary for survival though. I like not being formally conditioned as others do, to ignore evidence and research that others in their field also ignore. I am glad I quit Pre-med before I got conditioned to believe as they did, I chose a different lifestyle. I had connections to get all my college paid, even medical school, and I have regretted not contacting the person that offered to take care of getting my med school costs paid in full, I should have contacted him and kept in touch and we could have gone on some hunting and fishing trips in the years after, but I felt kind of down, I felt like I was inferior because I did not want to join in a profession where others were being conditioned to suck money out of people to gain prestige and wealth. I know that half the doctors out there did fight off that conditioning, but half wound up with big heads and tried to get patients to support the medical industry which led to increasing insurance costs and healthcare costs.

Now, almost everyone has a copay on their work insurance, and most people don't realize that they would be getting more hourly wage if the insurance did not cost the business so much. The worst part is now people want to go get more tests because they pay so much for insurance...so it will never go down...they feel they need to get something for their part of the insurance premium that the company does not cover.

I have seen and heard a lot in my lifetime, I understand what is happening more than the majority of people. I observe and listen to what people say and also see people twisting what they are told to accept it so it fits their beliefs. It happens in every class of society, in every profession...I have worked in quite a few professions, I liked learning new things. So I got to know how people think and with that knowledge, I can chat with them on an even keel. Now I am back to learning about medicine and nutrition and genetics and not many people know how to properly evaluate things, even doctors mostly treat symptoms which means that medicines might not be correct that they prescribe some times....they do not have the time to spend talking to the patients to find other symptoms anymore either, I used to spend a half hour talking about stuff to doctors years ago, we discussed all kinds of medical stuff, they used to open up more years ago and talk to patients...well, being I used to be in premed, maybe I was more apt to ask pertinent questions and I always read medical articles, it did not quit just because I quit medical school, but until I got disabled, I did not have time to do this much research to satisfy my desire to learn medicine.

Sounds like you enjoy your work, it is nice that you can test some things where you work. I have known people who worked in labs and in slack times they would test stuff up to the limitations of the lab. But they had to be reasonable because supplies were somewhat monitored, saying you were practicing or trying to increase productivity as an excuse only goes so far.

a reply to: DontTreadOnMe
I somehow missed this post yesterday.

I have read that some people have issues digesting certain foods.
And it has something to do with the fact that mankind really hasn't been eating grains all that long. Some people perhaps genetically cannot process gluten or cows milk, or whatever.

I've also read the same thing about grain only being in the human diet for a relatively short period of time and that being why many can't easily digest it. I believe that is often the case for many of us who have these kinds of problems. Or at the very least, we are genetically predisposed to them whenever outside factors are added in. I also feel that for at least some of us, there are factors that have only come into play in the last 4 or 5 decades, some even more recent than that. Many of them have already been touched on in this thread. Despite my reaction to how it was presented in this thread, I think that HFCS is among those factors. Along with herbicides, pesticides, hormones, antibiotics, and GMO's. Microplastics are a more recent issue that is likely another big contributor. I also find some vaccines to be highly suspect. I only zeroed in on covid because of the timing of my IBS. I've also known of others who have shared this experience. Gastro symptoms are often a big part of long covid. It was the absence of those kinds of symptoms with my covid infection that made me wonder how many share my own experience. 

TBH, I can remember having some digestion issues decades ago, chalked it up with eating too late in the day. Could easily have been gluten issues. Who knows, even in hindsight.

As I said in the other thread, they kept trying to tell me I had GERD. IOW, they didn't really know.

And giving me prilosec, which in the long run made it a lot worse.

Since I started to restrict my diet to control the IBS symptoms, I've found that I do not need to take protonix all that often. I've never been one to take it every day like it was prescribed and only take it whenever I am experiencing bad acid reflux. I have said that I have experienced it for a long time, but it was never really that bad until last year. Prior to that, some alka seltzer often did the trick. 

I also cannotdrink water from a garden hose without getting sick. Seriously.

Same with my father. My sisters and mom had no issues.

I never really liked water from a garden hose. It has an odor and a taste that almost makes me want to gag, but I wouldn't say that it made me sick. I'll drink it if that is all that is available, and I am thirsty.

a reply to: tamusan

I was diagnosed with Crohn's disease when I was about 18 years old.

I have exacerbations and emissions. Last time I was in hospitals for it was about three years ago, so I understand the agony of those with IBS.

Our food supply is so contaminated that we have recalls almost monthly, which does not speak for the best quality of food safety, and what the FDA let's pass as acceptable for consumption, is damn near criminal.

I am big on reading the labels, but I had a friend that worked in a food packaging company, so I know what is stated on the label is a crap shoot for it it to be reliably true.

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

I’m sorry that you have had to deal with something like this for such a long time. From my perspective, Cronh's disease is also a much more serious illness than the symptoms I myself have. I feel incredibly fortunate to have been able to enjoy over 50 years of not having these kinds of issues. Now that I do, I have a much greater understanding of how bad it makes people feel and how painful it really can be. Before experiencing it myself, I approached this illness in others more like a robot. I’ve had some serious illnesses in my life, including cancer and degenerative disc disease. None of them were or are even remotely as painful as what I experienced after eating beans the other day. I think this has taught me to show greater empathy for others when hearing about their symptoms from any illness, not just IBS. I used the word "empathy" as a relative term. For me, it comes more from a place of thought than emotion. 

a reply to: rickymouse

I mentioned before that I stumbled into my education by chance. I like to believe that my VA voc rehab counselor recognized that I was seriously harmed by the military and tried to make it right. I had previously never aspired to achieve any kind of advanced degree, and I honestly never expected to complete them. I greatly liked my job in the military and regret that I was unable to see that career to a proper end. For some years, I have been fortunate enough to at least be a supporting player. I also like to think that my own experiences taught me to think more about the wellbeing of the subjects than the research.

I find value in what almost anyone has to say, unless they are obviously speaking out of ignorance. I try not to look down on anyone who is at least attempting to recognize and work with the facts. While many do often seek these kinds of careers for the money, prestige, and status, I don’t believe that I am unique in the profession.

I think if you learn to better direct your words in a more concise manner, no one will even wonder if you have any formal credentials. Your knowledge seems considerable to me, and I'm sure I've just noticed the tip of the iceberg. 

a reply to: tamusan

It is hard, because I want to translate things into layman's terms so everyone can understand it. When I start getting into specifics with people they seem to get intimidated, and that is not the way I want to be remembered. People do not relate well around here with people who talk way over their heads, the people I want to deal with. My wife even gets kind of antsy when I start talking technical metabolic and genetic stuff, I go over head. But the people I talk about in scientific terms are knowledgeable about it, I start out talking about stuff in layman's terms and if they start talking more technical, then I do. Pretty soon the wife feels weird and takes off shopping if we are in a store talking about food science, I seem to find more knowledgeable people about these chemistries at the food coop we belong to, There are lots of shoppers there who eat organic and have an interest in food science.

I really like hacking pharma chemistry and finding the method of action of their meds then finding natural sources which have less side effects. They do tend to try to make us believe that the basis of the medication is something found half way around the world and they have been doing that for a long time. They also pick a plant with toxic chemistries to say that it was discovered in that plant and in reality there are natural non-toxic forms out there in our food supply and in nature. But in reality there are chemistries in nature all over that have the same thing, they have bioavailable chemistries that will work and some are potent and most have very little toxic elements to them. But they change the molecule or protein just a little and patent the medicine. Other chemicals present in the foods can protect us from any toxic properties and sometimes cooking makes the chemistries less of a toxin problem and if done correctly, the chemistry you desire is not degraded much. Knowing the heat stability point is crucial to preserving the medical properties in some foods.

Remember, natural foods and supplements might work for one person but not for others. People have different food intolerances but often the medicinal chemical is also in a different food that they are not intolerant to. Companion chemistry is essential with foods too, this was known quite a bit by people who lived in the generation before me, and pharma companies and chemicals companies made even my parents believe that what their parents knew was irrelevant, they pushed science as real and folk medicine and folk diet as pseudoscience, effectively brainwashing people back already in the sixties when I was young. Thank god I spent time with my grandparents that showed me a lot about foods and herbs used in foods. My Uncle never got brainwashed till the early nineties, when they got old, they gave up and started eating in restaurants because they couldn't fish or hunt anymore or grow a garden anymore to get real food. They were not into going to the food coop, they thought those healthnuts there who thought they knew more than old people were kind of nuts. The thing is if they would have talked to those people in their twenties, they would have felt right at home until they started pushing kale and kohrabi on them...foods my aunt and uncle never ate before.

We cannot alter our diet too much from our ancestors in one generation. Our body has to know how to metabolize the food, eating something our ancestors never ate lead to improper enzymes being made. Enzymes for eating a different food with a few shared chemistries in it. Like I mentioned before, some far northern Europeans can utilize vinegar better than vitamin C, because when they eat vitamin C they make all the enzymes to metabolize and detox vinegar which can have some side effects. They make vitamin c out of the vinegar and another enzyme to break apart what is left to metabolize the leftover, which causes them some problems if too much vitamin C is consumed. I learned this from European research about four or five years ago. But how do you tell if you got that genetic trait....I do not know, but I bet a lot of the people who swear by apple cider vinegar changing their health have that genetics.

a reply to: tamusan


Ummm…what the hell is…FODMAP…?

It would be helpful if you had included it’s definition in your OP…


I did look it up…but shouldn’t have had to…

If your going to use an acronym…at least include the descriptor…






YouSir

a reply to: YouSir

The article I linked defined it. I felt that was good enough. I apologize for assuming. I will try to be more descriptive if I make any more threads in the future.

a reply to: rickymouse

When I made both of these IBS threads, I was not feeling well, and the less time I spent typing, the better I thought at the time. I do often try to put things into simpler terms, but I've found that the greater the detail and the more words I use, the more it will often cause people to become overwhelmed and miss a lot of what I am saying. I also likely wrongly assume that what I post would be a springboard for someone who is interested, and they will go beyond what I've said and explore what the rest of the internet has to offer on the subject. I've since noticed that many people can't even be bothered with reading the reference links included in an OP.

I'm currently working on an oil of oregano thread. I'm trying to break things down into their simplest explanation. It's rather difficult because there is a lot of information, and I would prefer to keep the original postings to as few posts as possible. I'm pulling information from hundreds of studies. Even if I give limited amounts of my own commentary, the reference quotes and links alone are going to use up considerable space. I wish that I had done this last year. I feel that it could have helped many people over the course of the pandemic.

I strongly believe in the power of nutrition and even natural remedies over pharmaceuticals. Although I feel they are often more suited for the prevention of illness rather than a direct course of treatment once an illness has progressed to an advanced stage. That said, I know there are many medicinally powerful naturally occurring substances that are not accepted by most practitioners of allopathic medicine that would effectively treat an illness. There are also many cheap pharmaceuticals that, when used off-label, would have the same or better results. The vast majority of doctors are employed by someone else and often do not have the luxury of exploring treatments outside of FDA approval. It is also risky to do so, considering how litigious our society has become. Experimental medicine can be and is often done for those who give consent, but many doctors are not very interested in deviating from the approved practices. I agree that the main motivator behind modern medicine is money, as is also often the case with running a hospital. Research is extremely costly, and no one is going to fund something that wouldn't at least pay for the research, and most of those funding it are also primarily profit-driven. It's a product of the world we live in. Many are often very materialistic, and most are not interested in giving their time or resources for free.

a reply to: tamusan

I for one am very interested in oil or oregano, as well as olive leaf extract.
Be interesting to see your thread

a reply to: DontTreadOnMe

I'm doing my best to produce a high-quality thread and not rush it. A lot of my own commentary will be focused on how there is very little research with human subjects, and the results have been inconclusive at best. I am also going out of my way to make sure that everyone knows that too much can harm the body or even be deadly and to follow the dosage guidelines on the label of whatever product they buy. I know people who take it every day as a supplement, and I believe they could be doing more harm than good to themselves. I just take some whenever I feel a cold or flu coming on, with good results (coincidental?) and have done so for a long time. 

a reply to: tamusan

It'll be interesting. I seem to have had better luck with olive leaf. And it is easier on my stomach than oregano oil, even though I use capsules. And not on an empty stomach.

Have you ever tried colloidal silver?

Also, there may be some info for you on this old thread of mine
www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: DontTreadOnMe

I was only vaguely familiar with olive leaf, so I asked my mom and grandma, who are big on traditional medicines that have been passed down through our generations. They said it is good for the circulation and heart. I had also heard in the past that it has many of the same antibacterial, antifungal, antiparasitic, and antiviral properties as oil of oregano. Here are a couple of links you may enjoy. Some of the websites I am referencing for my thread also have some good info on the olive tree. The second link is more about the history of the olive tree, with a short paragraph about how olive oil can be a beauty aid.

Olive leaf (pdf) altmedrev.com
Hooray For World Olive Tree Day kardamas.com

A question about thread creation: I am referencing a great number of links. For example, the introductory paragraph is a history of oregano cultivation and its ancient and more recent traditional medicinal uses. The paragraph itself is about 18 lines, but the links themselves would take up even more space in a post. I don't want to overwhelm people with a wall of blue. Would it be acceptable to do something like the link below? The link should open a Word document with the references I used for the paragraph. I would put a link like this directly below the paragraph(s) they provide the references for. Pressing control and clicking on the text in the Word document will open a link. It should open as a webpage for anyone, even if they do not have Word or Outlook.

Oil of Oregano:reference links (1)

a reply to: tamusan

Sure, I don't see why not. They are still clickable, right?

I would just add a note so the reader knows what the link is about. To avoid any confusion.

ETA
I really like the idea....as one could save that link to my PC, right?



ETA2
Yeah, I am familiar with the other uses of olive leaf. But have used it primarily for the antiviral, antibacterial, etc. properties. Should probably dose it will oregano capsules. *sigh*
I've also added Andrographis to the stack.

a reply to: DontTreadOnMe

I really like the idea....as one could save that link to my PC, right?

Yes, the link should be able to be saved, or the document itself could be saved to your computer if you have Word. I'm making an outlook account just for the documents with the links. That way, it will be below the threshold for free storage and the documents should theoretically be around forever. 

I think that I've narrowed it down to about 10-15 links for the actual scientific literature that I will use for the thread. I will quote from those using the ATS quote feature and provide the link below that directly links to the study, as is usual. I will do the same for anything that I decide to quote from. I have about 400 links total and won't be using most of them. I will make a document just for those and put the link at the very end for those who want to read the majority of the actual scientific literature there is.

Should probably dose it will oregano capsules.

If you believe that you've had previous success with just the olive leaf, then there likely isn't a need to take both. I'm currently not up to speed on the effects olive leaf has on the body. If olive leaf and oil of oregano are affecting the same pathways, then there could possibly be detrimental effects. I'm thinking of pulling all of the research I can find for olive leaf to make another thread if I feel I did a good job with this current one. After that, I should have a better idea of how the two would interact.

One thing to note is that oil of oregano and oregano essential oil are not the same thing. Oil of oregano is meant for ingestion while essential oils are for aromatherapy or topical use and not ingestion. It's important to make sure that something is being marketed for ingestion before consuming it. I'll point that out again in the thread.