Is the US following Rome

My curiosity has been piqued lately with the Roman Empire. It's mostly new to me (thanks inner city school system) and I'm seeing some parallels.

To the history buffs and armchair 'storians, does this seem similar to you? Or perhaps you have a different view?

8 Reasons Why Rome Fell

1. Invasions by Barbarian tribes

2. Economic troubles and overreliance on slave labor

3. The rise of the Eastern Empire

4. Overexpansion and military overspending

5. Government corruption and political instability

6. The arrival of the Huns and the migration of the Barbarian tribes

7. Christianity and the loss of traditional values

8. Weakening of the Roman legions

Link

I think the enumerated examples don't require explanation and also that this is a very rudimentary take. Almost click-baity if you will however the parallels still stand on their own.

Lets discuss!

a reply to: JinMI

Yes, I've been convinced a while that the US will collapse, at minimum. Possibly the rest of world as well. As it is , the US is what keeps the world 'stable', that's why 'they' are actively trying to destabilize/destroy the US from within.
All to do with 'build back better' and 'the great reset' claptrap BS.
All it will 'build back better' is the ultra-rich 'elites' bank accounts

From what we know of Rome maybe just their ( historians opinions ) which will continue with the fall within the US. Take Mexico for example, has it fallen to the creed of of evil doers ? Same with American leadership, Baiden is one evil motherfker and we all, at least those of up that have honored our oath in the military would agree upon. PERIOD.

originally posted by: JinMI
My curiosity has been piqued lately with the Roman Empire. It's mostly new to me (thanks inner city school system) and I'm seeing some parallels.

To the history buffs and armchair 'storians, does this seem similar to you? Or perhaps you have a different view?

8 Reasons Why Rome Fell

1. Invasions by Barbarian tribes

2. Economic troubles and overreliance on slave labor

3. The rise of the Eastern Empire

4. Overexpansion and military overspending

5. Government corruption and political instability

6. The arrival of the Huns and the migration of the Barbarian tribes

7. Christianity and the loss of traditional values

8. Weakening of the Roman legions

Link

I think the enumerated examples don't require explanation and also that this is a very rudimentary take. Almost click-baity if you will however the parallels still stand on their own.

Lets discuss!

and the democrats at the gate.

a reply to: JinMI

I don't know if the US will collapse but we in the western world are definitely headed for something on the level of the 1920's wall street collapse, I am not talking about shares and stocks though you can't keep pyramid schemes going forever but rather a social economic collapse, in fact we have just scraped through one with the bankers being bailed out by governments and instead of letting it happen and limiting the damage by doing so those same idiotic governments have stored up the problem for the future as it has to happen at some point.

Will it cause the US in particular to collapse, I hope not but anything is possible, you have two many folks over there with too many shared values though so remember who is driving a wedge between you and why, they want it to collapse.

The Elite will make themselves safe and will weather the storm with a plan to come out even more powerful than they are now and perhaps that is actually there end game.

a reply to: JinMI
In the Roman case, "rise of the Eastern empire" is about division. The capital of the whole empire was transferred eastwards, and then the western half with Rome got islolated and broke off. Obviously you are thinking of "eastern empre" as a rival, but a better parallel would be the transfer of power from Washington to California followed by the disintegration of the eastern ststes.

I disagree with the 7th one. It was the pagans who were without values. After the near-collapse of the third century, Christianity was the unifying force that revived it and kept it going for another century and a half. Don't read Gibbon, read Toynbee. Toynbee points out, incidentally, that a "frontier against barbarians" cannot be defended indefinitely, becuase "social pressure" builds up on the other side. They catch up with the military skills of the civilised world.

a reply to: DISRAELI

In the west the Roman empire or at least Roman way of life survived into the 7th of 8th century's in places like Iberia were the end of that only came with the invasion of the Moors from north Africa.

In the east the Roman empire remained but it was no longer Roman but rather Greek in the form of Byzantium which continued until 1543 when the ancient and once mighty walls of the city of Constantine were pounded to dust by Turk cannon.

The Byzantine empire however could well have survived to this very day had the last crusade not been perverted by the Doge of Venice whom blackmailed the crusades leaders into attacking the Rival city which had control of the Bosporus strait and all the wealth that generated, the subsequent sacking of the city by the crusaders left it bankrupt and unable to pay it's army's who up to that point had been holding the Turk's at bay if poorly.

In the west though Arguably the Roman empire had more or less fallen even before the city was finally sacked and it remained an empire in name only with many provinces such as Gaul and it's city state alliance having become more powerful than Rome itself, so much so that Rome whom were losing against the Hun's had to call upon Gaul to help them at which point the Hun's were finally defeated but never driven out of Europe, this left Rome even weaker and eventually the Visigoth's sacked the city, perversely there reason was that they wanted to be ROMANS and the Romans would not let them into the empire so they took what they wanted and then settled in Iberia as ruling the whole already dying empire was beyond there ability and other city states would likely have defeated them anyway if they had rallied there own legions.

What followed as a period we wrongly call the dark ages because in fact they were anything but dark except in parts of Europe though a further collapse of society seam's to have happened some time later as tribal migration took hold and Saxon then Norse conquerors settled much of the weakened former roman world wrecking the vestiges of Roman society which still clung on there up to that point but in time.

What had happened in Rome was a mixture of corruption in politics, over taxation, corrupt local officials in the provinces and famine and plagues which all had a terrible impact.

One of the Rome worlds greatest weakness was poor logistics, a numerical system not fit for purpose and weak leadership along with an ever less capable military compounded by corruption and both external stress from the Visigoth whom had served as Auxiliary soldiers in the Roman army and won some of it's last wars for it before turning against it and the aftermath of internal decay caused by those plagues.

Also there is an argument that the death of the old Patrician class also played a major role in the downfall of the empire with there over use of lead even as a food colouring leading to likely lead poisoning and the extinction of that former native Roman ruling class.

There are similarity's to the decay of modern society but also glaring differences and it was of course on a much smaller scale.

a reply to: JinMI

My curiosity has been piqued lately with the Roman Empire. It's mostly new to me (thanks inner city school system) and I'm seeing some parallels

The Roman Empire was actually quite small compared to others. It only covered around 3.5% of The Earths Land Mass. The British Empire covered 26% for example.

a reply to: JinMI


That IS the fear of everyone able to see what democrats have intentionally done to us over the last half century with such incredible successes along the way.

Then there are the Trump supporters, or intellectually honest freedom loving Americans in general, standing up and shouting 'WTF were you clowns thinking?'

We will NOT go the way of Rome.

Not in this century anyway.

Despite the democrat party's continued best efforts.

a reply to: LABTECH767


Thank you for such a well written arguement!

More please!

Most of what you said fits with and expands on some obscure facts that I was already aware of.

I suspect there will be some Rome research in my near future as a result of your effort, thank you!

a reply to: JinMI

Thank you for this great thread Jin!

a reply to: DISRAELI

Excellent points, the issues you mentioned certainly played significant roles in their eventual collapse.

I am curious what you think about number 5, as this is the area I most recently did a little personal research on.

Thank you D!

Might be way too early in the A.M here but I posit that the speed of information we now have greatly reduced most of Rome's symptoms does it not? or certainly it alters its importance either up or down.

For example, the masses, now 2021 the masses are hyper-aware, hyper-alert, whereas the Romans were or seemed to be the exact opposite.

In other words, the US is more aware of its decline than the Romans ever were of their demise. For example, a leader may have led ancient Rome for 10 or more years, but in today's America, he comes in hot and burns quickly out for various reasons.

originally posted by: putnam6
Might be way too early in the A.M here but I posit that the speed of information we now have greatly reduced most of Rome's symptoms does it not? or certainly it alters its importance either up or down.

For example, the masses, now 2021 the masses are hyper-aware, hyper-alert, whereas the Romans were or seemed to be the exact opposite.

In other words, the US is more aware of its decline than the Romans ever were of their demise. For example, a leader may have led ancient Rome for 10 or more years, but in today's America, he comes in hot and burns quickly out for various reasons.

Excellent points!

We have certainly seen the results of that incredible speed our technology allows in such things.

What you described is a very large portion of the concerns I've had for quite a while, except the speed of change/damage that technology allows.

It may help you sleep a little better to remember that we have all the same advancements as the bad guys, and quite a few more.

And that we have the great benefit of being mostly surrounded by friends and oceans, that Rome did not, as well as 24/7 global satellite survailance making large scale sneak attacks nearly impossible, which was also a recurring weakness for Rome.

originally posted by: putnam6
Might be way too early in the A.M here but I posit that the speed of information we now have greatly reduced most of Rome's symptoms does it not? or certainly it alters its importance either up or down.

For example, the masses, now 2021 the masses are hyper-aware, hyper-alert, whereas the Romans were or seemed to be the exact opposite.

In other words, the US is more aware of its decline than the Romans ever were of their demise. For example, a leader may have led ancient Rome for 10 or more years, but in today's America, he comes in hot and burns quickly out for various reasons.

I would argue that the masses are actually complacent and unaware. The few are in fact, able to use the speed of information to be hyper-aware and alert, but the masses are dumbed-down by the gobs of useless entertainment-driven information filling their idle time. That has only accelerated decline.

originally posted by: JinMI
Almost click-baity if you will however the parallels still stand on their own.

Very click-baity.

Articles like this only look at the fall of the city of Rome and ignore that the Eastern/Byzantine Empire lasted close to another 1,000 years and over the course of that time controlled the Italian peninsula at varying points. The capital of the Western Empire wasn't even Rome when it was sacked, it had already moved to Ravenna.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: JinMI
Almost click-baity if you will however the parallels still stand on their own.

Very click-baity.

Articles like this only look at the fall of Rome and ignore the Eastern/Byzantine Empire lasted close to another 1,000 years and over the course of that time controlled the Italian peninsula at varying points. The capital of the Western Empire wasn't even Rome when it was sacked, it had already moved to Ravenna.

Another fascinating period and pov!

I don't think it lessons the fascination about the earlier events in the process of Rome's eventual collapse though, especially since that period seems to have so many similarities to our current issues, events & concerns.

a reply to: JinMI

There are many parallels between the US and Rome as you have pointed out.

a reply to: Ghostsdogood
I think you'll find that the issues were at the local level. E.g. central taxation was a burden, and local administration was financially responsible for it, so nobody wanted to be part of local administration. So in some regions the sense of commitment to the empire was reduced, which made them easier to conquer.

a reply to: Halfswede
I concur,

Observing over the shoulders of my work mates, or citizens on the street, most, if not all are on some sort of social media outlet.

40 year olds and up acting like teenagers, this tic Tac video crap is not helping society.