‘Orgy of violence’: Dutch police open fire on rioters

a reply to: beyondknowledge

Rubber bullets, paint balls, flash bang rounds, there are all kinds of less than lethal ways to respond. Bad training and not properly equipped it would seem in this case.

Really! Or are you making excuses for a police force that is clearly supporting the wrong side?

originally posted by: Randyvine2
a reply to: beyondknowledge

Rubber bullets, paint balls, flash bang rounds, there are all kinds of less than lethal ways to respond. Bad training and not properly equipped it would seem in this case.

Really! Or are you making excuses for a police force that is clearly supporting the wrong side?

Funny the way you asked that?

No, I am against this police action. I have no idea how you think saying they are not trained properly is supporting them in this. I usually support the police but this action was wrong in many ways.

originally posted by: Randyvine2
a reply to: beyondknowledge

Rubber bullets, paint balls, flash bang rounds, there are all kinds of less than lethal ways to respond. Bad training and not properly equipped it would seem in this case.

Really! Or are you making excuses for a police force that is clearly supporting the wrong side?

These are just street cops without riot gear caught off gaurd by the sudden increase of rioters.

Feyenoord hooligans got a resume going back more then 30 years , they are veteran street fighters.

a few streetcops versus a handfull of these guys means a wheelchair for life or worse for those cops.

You also fail to see the big picture , if the police lose control and the stores get looted and torched the appartment buildings above those stores with hundreds of people living in them will go up in flames.

And the Fire department can't come put it out because police cannot guarantee their safety.

Thats the situation on the ground in downtown Rotterdam.

Easy from your perspective and want to see anarchy , we have to live in it here.

Mayor Ahmed Aboutaleb in ROTTERDAM?
Seriously Dutch-sounding name.
Makes me wonder who the rioters were.

a reply to: Asktheanimals

Well actually...he's a pretty good mayor

Ahmed Aboutaleb, the mayor of Rotterdam has just been named the best mayor in the world for 2021 by the London City Mayor’s Foundation. The London City Mayors Foundation — an international think tank dedicated to local governance — has presented this award every two years since 2004. Ahmed Aboutaleb is the first Dutch winner of the prize

Most of our immigrants are Marokan, Turkish, Indonesian or Surinamese. They live in or near big cities so you will see alot of these second and third generation young men among the rioters but I doubt their ethnicity has anything to do with it.

originally posted by: PapagiorgioCZ
a reply to: DerBeobachter

At some point violence is the only way. At some point you wanna be able to shoot back.
The only problem is lack of organization. They cant really organize an effective combat on social networks without being spotted. The lack of tools and tactics could improve after years of oppression. Until then police will have the final word. People will eventually learn to set multiple fires to bind enemy forces. To use slings instead or throwing rocks by hand. Using shields, cannons, mortars, rockets. Just like in Palestine and elsewhere. It's only matter of time and of how deep will the social contract fail

You all for encouraging that sort of violence, then?

From behind the safety of your keyboard, of course.
Nice.

originally posted by: Asktheanimals
Mayor Ahmed Aboutaleb in ROTTERDAM?
Seriously Dutch-sounding name.
Makes me wonder who the rioters were.

You mean this chap? Seems thoroughly decent
You have a problem with his name, or something?

www.dutchnews.nl...

a reply to: Oldcarpy2

Are you going to deny who (by group) is the leading criminal element in the Netherlands?
Statistics tend to lead the inquisitorial line.
No, I have no problem with anyone's name or race.
I don't even live there but I do try to see what the general trends are.
#1 trend in Europe is increase in crime over the last decade.

originally posted by: Asktheanimals
a reply to: Oldcarpy2

Are you going to deny who (by group) is the leading criminal element in the Netherlands?
Statistics tend to lead the inquisitorial line.
No, I have no problem with anyone's name or race.
I don't even live there but I do try to see what the general trends are.
#1 trend in Europe is increase in crime over the last decade.

No, because I simply don't know.

Are you talking about crime as in rioting?

I tend to defer to the views of those posters who live there.

What about the Feyenord supporters who are notorious for this sort of thing?

a reply to: seedofchucky

Property destruction is never cool even if you have a good cause !

I kinda hate this kind of ultimate statements, because it seems some details are missing or not thought about at all.

What is a good cause that warrants such destruction? Why would it not be 'cool', if the cause is good? Do you mean even if the cause is -deemed- good? What do you mean by 'cause' anyway?

Let's try a scenario to make more clear examples of what you are saying.

Property destruction is NEVER cool, you say. Never. Think about the implications of choosing this particular word.

Let's say you buy a cheap glass jar or vase, take it to your home sound studio, and smash it for a sound effect for some creative project.

Not cool?

Let's say you own land that has a rotting old house on it, and you want to build something good, like a mansion for your family there - not cool to destroy that particular property, the house, that would just rot and waste space?

Not cool?

I could go on, but I hope I made my point - did you possibly mean, unlawful destruction of someone ELSE'S property without their consent is just that, unlawful?

Why should it matter if something is 'cool' or not? That's not the system we have built on this world, we don't judge people or their actions based on whether they are 'cool' or 'not cool', and no one is sent to jail or even fined for being 'not cool'.

We should clarify this kind of odd statements by making them congruent with the system we are surrounded by and living in, and especially the LAW.

It's enough to say 'It's evil to break the law, and people shouldn't do it'. No need to be so specific about properties or destructions, because you just sink yourself with all kinds of problems that way, as you can see.

It's enough to say 'Breaking the law is wrong', 'Destroying someone else's things is unlawful', etc. There's no need to bring 'cool' or 'not cool' into it, and I don't understand why you would want to muddy waters that way. What does it matter whether something is cool or not cool? (WHATEVER that means!)

All that matters is if you can lawfully do it or not - all that matters is if you are breaking the law or not. You can destroy anything you want as long as you do it lawfully, and you can't destroy anything if you are doing it unlawfully. That's it, that's all that matters. Can we not start being more clear in our communication and understanding of WHY something is right or wrong?

It's the law - you are either respecting it with your actions or breaking it, and either case, 'cool' doesn't enter into it, if you are breaking the law, you should absolutely be punished and hopefully not live among law-abiding people.

a reply to: Shoujikina

My grandparents blew up railwaylines...

But that was in WWII and they belonged to a bunch of Germans.

Good/bad...depends on the situation I guess.

Those hooligans in Rotterdam smashing stuff...not really a grey area.