When lies are used to censor truth

a reply to: RickyD

I am not the prosecutor nor part of his team.
They mucked up, not the law.
He was as a minor in possession of a firearm on public and private property unlawfully.

"Any person under 18 years of age who possesses or goes armed with a dangerous weapon is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor."

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Allaroundyou

You

Regardless of what they said he still broke the law.

Really? When was he convicted by a court of law. The charge was dropped, so he is innocent regardless.

OMG hold my beer....Someone broke the law and charges have been dropped so they are not guilty of the crime they committed. I am truly shocked by the prosecutions inability to properly articulate in court the laws he broke.

a reply to: Allaroundyou
Honestly, I think the law is worded incorrectly. In one spot it says "any firearm" and, like neutronflux pointed out, in another it stipulates a requirement: "(c) This section applies only to a person under 18 years of age who possesses or is armed with a rifle or a shotgun if the person is in violation of s. 941.28 "

Not sure how this is handled in the US but in my country any error like this the judges must interpret in the manner that benefits the person on trial. After all it isn't their fault that legislators made a mistake in drawing up the law.

Also, if you think about it, they never really meant "any firearm" if they went through the trouble of specifying a requirement.

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: Allaroundyou
Honestly, I think the law is worded incorrectly. In one spot it says "any firearm" and, like neutronflux pointed out, in another it stipulates a requirement: "(c) This section applies only to a person under 18 years of age who possesses or is armed with a rifle or a shotgun if the person is in violation of s. 941.28 "

Not sure how this is handled in the US but in my country any error like this the judges must interpret in the manner that benefits the person on trial. After all it isn't their fault that legislators made a mistake in drawing up the law.

Also, if you think about it, they never really meant "any firearm" if they went through the trouble of specifying a requirement.

CHAPTER 941
CRIMES AGAINST PUBLIC HEALTH AND SAFETY-
That is what they are referencing.
That only applies to those who already own and are within their right to carry. He does not have that right givin the circumstances. So what they are referring to does not apply.

a reply to: Allaroundyou
Chapter 941 is the main body but they are specifically pointing out that the law that you posted says they must be in violation of 941.28 Possession of short-barreled shotgun or short-barreled rifle.
law.justia.com...

I know it seems weird that you can't carry brass knuckles or nunchucks because they are deemed deadly but as long as the barrel of a rifle or shotgun isn't shorter than x inches they are ok.

a reply to: Allaroundyou

You

CHAPTER 941

Ok?


This?

This section applies only to a person under 18 years of age who possesses or is armed with a rifle or a shotgun if the person is in violation of s. 941.28 or is not in compliance with ss. 29.304 and 29.593.

Which invokes this, 941.28

Which is:

941.28  Possession of short-barreled shotgun or short-barreled rifle.
(1)  In this section:
(a) “Rifle" means a firearm designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder or hip and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of a propellant in a metallic cartridge to fire through a rifled barrel a single projectile for each pull of the trigger.
(b) “Short-barreled rifle" means a rifle having one or more barrels having a length of less than 16 inches measured from closed breech or bolt face to muzzle or a rifle having an overall length of less than 26 inches.
(c) “Short-barreled shotgun" means a shotgun having one or more barrels having a length of less than 18 inches measured from closed breech or bolt face to muzzle or a shotgun having an overall length of less than 26 inches.
(d) “Shotgun" means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder or hip and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of a propellant in a fixed shotgun shell to fire through a smooth bore either a number of ball shot or a single projectile for each single pull of the trigger.
(2) No person may sell or offer to sell, transport, purchase, possess or go armed with a short-barreled shotgun or short-barreled rifle.
(3) Any person violating this section is guilty of a Class H felony.
(4) This section does not apply to the sale, purchase, possession, use or transportation of a short-barreled shotgun or short-barreled rifle to or by any armed forces or national guard personnel in line of duty, any peace officer of the United States or of any political subdivision of the United States or any person who has complied with the licensing and registration requirements under 26 USC 5801 to 5872. This section does not apply to the manufacture of short-barreled shotguns or short-barreled rifles for any person or group authorized to possess these weapons. The restriction on transportation contained in this section does not apply to common carriers. This section shall not apply to any firearm that may be lawfully possessed under federal law, or any firearm that could have been lawfully registered at the time of the enactment of the national firearms act of 1968.
(5) Any firearm seized under this section is subject to s. 968.20 (3) and is presumed to be contraband.
History: 1979 c. 115; 2001 a. 109.
The intent in sub. (1) (d) is that of the fabricator; that the gun is incapable of being fired or not intended to be fired by the possessor is immaterial. State v. Johnson, 171 Wis. 2d 175, 491 N.W.2d 110 (Ct. App. 1992).
“Firearm" means a weapon that acts by force of gunpowder to fire a projectile, regardless of whether it is inoperable due to disassembly. State v. Rardon, 185 Wis. 2d 701, 518 N.W.2d 330 (Ct. App. 1994).

Which Rittenhouse’s lawyers used to successfully have the charge dropped.

a reply to: Allaroundyou

Which has nothing to do with the topic of this thread which is Politifact used this blatant falsehood.

"It is against the law in Wisconsin for someone younger than 18 to possess a dangerous weapon. Period."

a reply to: neutronflux

Rifle means a firearm. A firearm he can not legally possess where he was at the time of the incident.
Does a firearm of any kind not cover that?
A short barrel on a rifle is a firearm. As stated in your defense in the first sentence. Now take that then read my post.

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Allaroundyou

Which has nothing to do with the topic of this thread which is Politifact used this blatant falsehood.

"It is against the law in Wisconsin for someone younger than 18 to possess a dangerous weapon. Period."

Take it up with a mod if you feel as though I am off topic because in my eyes I am on topic. It seems as though you just keep trying to move the post win a debate you have lost.

a reply to: Allaroundyou

How are these people able to carry a firearm to a hunting trip without being criminals? Or even have a firearm on their person, and not be a criminal? They have a gun alone in a house, are they a criminal?

WISCONSIN HUNTER CERTIFICATION AGE REQUIREMENTS

www.huntingsmart.com...

14 YEARS OF AGE OR OLDER
Hunters who are 14 years of age or older, who were born on or after January 1st, 1973, are permitted to hunt unaccompanied, so long as they have obtained their Hunter Education Certification.

Does this rule violate Wisconsin law?

originally posted by: Allaroundyou
a reply to: neutronflux

Rifle means a firearm. A firearm he can not legally possess where he was at the time of the incident.
Does a firearm of any kind not cover that?
A short barrel on a rifle is a firearm. As stated in your defense in the first sentence. Now take that then read my post.

And again…

Evidently Rittenhouse’s lawyers argued the below effective enough to have the present judge drop the weapons charge.

But Rittenhouse’s attorneys seized on a subsection of the Wisconsin law that states the ban on minors possessing dangerous weapons applies to minors armed with rifles or shotguns only if those weapons are short-barreled.

a reply to: Allaroundyou

So? All youth hunters are criminals? That makes no F’n sense.

originally posted by: daskakik
a reply to: Allaroundyou
Chapter 941 is the main body but they are specifically pointing out that the law that you posted says they must be in violation of 941.28 Possession of short-barreled shotgun or short-barreled rifle.
law.justia.com...

I know it seems weird that you can't carry brass knuckles or nunchucks because they are deemed deadly but as long as the barrel of a rifle or shotgun isn't shorter than x inches they are ok.

Short and to the point. Brilliant!

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Allaroundyou

So? All youth hunters are criminals? That makes no F’n sense.

He was not hunting nor does he have a hunting license. He even stated that. That law applies to youth hunting and transportation. Also if you were to have read more you would have read that. You also would have read how someone can do so.
Either way he was not hunting.

a reply to: Allaroundyou

There is no need to be this persistent to save face. In black and white we have CASE CLOSED. So, why beat a dead horse when it is dead and gone?

It is ok to be wrong and admit it. It isn't to just keep pretending it is true when it clearly is not. Save that energy for something more usable to make your point.

a reply to: Allaroundyou

What you want the law to say or even think the law meant is irrelevant. The way law works is that if it isn't explicitly illegal, it isn't illegal. The law very well may have been poorly written, but as it is currently written, the defense attorneys successfully argued that Rittenhouse did not break the law in regards to possession of the firearm.

It is ok to be wrong.

a reply to: Allaroundyou

I already showed you that you were wrong as well as others here. You are misinterpreting the statute because you ignore the statutes that it references in regards to its on wording. I know its pretty convoluted and they should have written much clearer laws but...you aren't even looking at the damn statues that they law cites and just pretend you are right. That's literally the type of things I was talking about initallt when I said you wouldn't be back or admit you were wrong. But hey...you do you boo boo I dont care of you think your right...here in reality you are wrong and the court even agrees so what does it matter?

a reply to: Allaroundyou

It's in the state laws. I don't have time to get the state law to link. I'll be home soon and then update this post with that info.

Hey amigo - you seem to have forgotten the first rule of holes:

Rule 1 - When you're in one, stop digging.


Carry on.

originally posted by: Justoneman
a reply to: Allaroundyou

There is no need to be this persistent to save face. In black and white we have CASE CLOSED. So, why beat a dead horse when it is dead and gone?

It is ok to be wrong and admit it. It isn't to just keep pretending it is true when it clearly is not. Save that energy for something more usable to make your point.

a reply to: Allaroundyou

You

He was not hunting nor does he have a hunting license.

I never said he was hunting.

This thread is about Politifact using lies.

This thread is about this false statement.

"It is against the law in Wisconsin for someone younger than 18 to possess a dangerous weapon. Period."

Which has been shown to be blatantly false.

You

That law applies to youth hunting and transportation

Other’s and I have now shown three things.

One. Youths can and do have long guns in their procession legally in Wisconsin.

Two. The hunting safety class is for getting a license and being able to hunt alone. Has nothing to do with “justifying” carrying a weapon.

Three. 941.28 Is what allows a youth to legally possess a gun which allows for getting a hunting license. Your argument is backwards. One has to be able to legally possess a gun before using a gun for hunting. Which allows them to get a gun back and forth from hunting trips. Not violate the law for simply having a long gun in their possession such as for practice handling a gun and target shooting.

By the way. Hunter safety covers more than “guns”

Hunter safety also covers items like the leading causes of death and injuries among hunters.

Tree stand accidents account for majority of hunting injuries and fatalities

amp.jsonline.com...

Wisconsin Hunter Issues Warning After Tree Stand Fall

thedacare.org...

At one time, firearm incidents were the main cause of accidents and injuries during Wisconsin’s hunting seasons. That is no longer the case. Falls from deer stands are now at the top of the list.

You

Also if you were to have read more you would have read that

No. The reality is Rittenhouse’s lawyers used 941.28 and the law to convince the judge to throw out a charge.

As outlined below.

Making any argument by you a moot point.

But Rittenhouse’s attorneys seized on a subsection of the Wisconsin law that states the ban on minors possessing dangerous weapons applies to minors armed with rifles or shotguns only if those weapons are short-barreled

Are you done beating a dead horse?