The #1 heresy today... Why we don't have to "repent of sin" to be saved...

a reply to: whereislogic

Lol to cover all your points of contention would take forever, do you have anything to add in your own words or are you gonna trust the thoughts of other people on this issue, and just copy and paste their thoughts, subsequently making you a meme propagator????

Let's discuss scripture...

a reply to: whereislogic

The more I read your post I'm sorry to say is cringey....

The part where I said you have to repent of dead works, your post concludes about dead works that we have to repent of self justification.... THATS WHAT REPENTING OF SIN IS.... It is self justification by obeying the law...

a reply to: ThyJudgeCometh
Note which part of your comment I bolded at the start of my comment. That's the part I was responding to with "Not quite." That expression was not about the remark about it meaning "to change your mind", I quoted that to show what we agree about (even though there's a little more to it, as the first 2 definitions given show).

a reply to: whereislogic

Ok well even in what you responded to meta can mean a "change" of mind, it's even in what you yourself posted...

Do you believe we have to obey the law for salvation???

a reply to: ThyJudgeCometh

Are you referring to the Mosaic Law? Then no. I made a comment in another thread concerning the topic of Sabbath keeping (part of the Mosaic Law/The Law of Moses). In it, it says:

originally posted by: whereislogic
a reply to: JimmyNeutr0n

We may remember that the Pharisees of Jesus’ day felt they had God’s favor because they scrupulously paid tithes, made the required sacrifices and abstained from secular work on sabbath days. They were critical of any who did not measure up to their idea of what obeying the Law meant. But Jesus told them: “If you had understood what this means, ‘I want mercy, and not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the guiltless ones.’” True, being under the Mosaic law they were required to observe those things mentioned, but not to the point of disregarding “the weightier matters of the Law,” including mercy.​—Matt. 9:1-13; 12:1-7; 23:23.

Are Christians under obligation to keep a weekly sabbath day?

Ex. 31:16, 17: “The sons of Israel must keep the sabbath, so as to carry out the sabbath during their generations. It is a covenant to time indefinite [“a perpetual covenant,” RS]. Between me and the sons of Israel it is a sign to time indefinite.” (Notice that sabbath observance was a sign between Jehovah and Israel; this would not be the case if everyone else were also obligated to keep the Sabbath. The Hebrew word rendered “perpetual” in RS is ‛oh·lamʹ, which basically means a period of time that, from the standpoint of the present, is indefinite or hidden from sight but of long duration. That can mean forever, but not necessarily so. At Numbers 25:13 the same Hebrew word is applied to the priesthood, which later ended, according to Hebrews 7:12.)

Rom. 10:4: “Christ is the end of the Law, so that everyone exercising faith may have righteousness.” (Sabbath keeping was a part of that Law. God used Christ to bring that Law to its end. Our having a righteous standing with God depends on faith in Christ, not on keeping a weekly sabbath.) (Also Galatians 4:9-11; Ephesians 2:13-16)

Col. 2:13-16: “[God] kindly forgave us all our trespasses and blotted out the handwritten document against us, which consisted of decrees and which was in opposition to us . . . Therefore let no man judge you in eating and drinking or in respect of a festival or of an observance of the new moon or of a sabbath.” (If a person was under the Mosaic Law and was judged guilty of profaning the Sabbath, he was to be stoned to death by the whole congregation, according to Exodus 31:14 and Numbers 15:32-35. Many who argue for sabbath keeping have reason to be glad that we are not under that Law. As shown in the scripture here quoted, an approved standing with God no longer requires observance of the sabbath requirement given to Israel.)

...

When referring to the passing away of the Mosaic Law, does the Bible directly say that the Ten Commandments were included in what came to an end?

Rom. 7:6, 7: “Now we have been discharged from the Law, because we have died to that by which we were being held fast . . . What, then, shall we say? Is the Law sin? Never may that become so! Really I would not have come to know sin if it had not been for the Law; and, for example, I would not have known covetousness if the Law had not said: ‘You must not covet.’” (Here, immediately after writing that Jewish Christians had been “discharged from the Law,” what example from the Law does Paul cite? The Tenth Commandment, thus showing that it was included in the Law from which they had been discharged.)

2 Cor. 3:7-11: “If the code which administers death and which was engraved in letters in stones came about in a glory, so that the sons of Israel could not gaze intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, a glory that was to be done away with, why should not the administering of the spirit be much more with glory? . . . For if that which was to be done away with was brought in with glory, much more would that which remains be with glory.” (Reference is made here to a code that was “engraved in letters in stones” and it is said that “the sons of Israel could not gaze intently at the face of Moses” on the occasion when it was delivered to them. What is this describing? Exodus 34:1, 28-30 shows that it is the giving of the Ten Commandments; these were the commandments engraved on stone. Obviously these are included in what the scripture here says “was to be done away with.”)

Does doing away with the Mosaic Law, including the Ten Commandments, imply the taking away of all moral restraint?

Not at all; many of the moral standards set out in the Ten Commandments were restated in the inspired books of the Christian Greek Scriptures. (There was, however, no restating of the sabbath law.) But no matter how good a law is, as long as sinful inclinations dominate a person’s desires, there will be lawlessness. However, regarding the new covenant, which has replaced the Law covenant, Hebrews 8:10 states: “‘For this is the covenant that I shall covenant with the house of Israel after those days,’ says Jehovah. ‘I will put my laws in their mind, and in their hearts I shall write them. And I will become their God, and they themselves will become my people.’” How much more effective such laws are than those engraved on stone tablets!

Rom. 6:15-17: “Shall we commit a sin because we are not under law but under undeserved kindness? Never may that happen! Do you not know that if you keep presenting yourselves to anyone as slaves to obey him, you are slaves of him because you obey him, either of sin with death in view or of obedience with righteousness in view? But thanks to God that you were the slaves of sin but you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were handed over.” (See also Galatians 5:18-24.)

Law:

When it is capitalized, this word refers either to the Mosaic Law or to the first five books of the Bible. When it is lowercased, it may refer to individual laws of the Mosaic Law or a principle of law.​—Nu 15:16; De 4:8; Mt 7:12; Ga 3:24.

The real purpose of the Law was, as stated by the apostle Paul, “to make transgressions manifest, until the seed should arrive.” It was a “tutor leading to Christ.” It pointed to Christ as the objective aimed at (“Christ is the end of the Law”). It revealed that all humans, including the Jews, are under sin and that life cannot be obtained by “works of law.” (Ga 3:19-24; Ro 3:20; 10:4)

The Law also served as “a shadow of the good things to come,” and things connected with it were “typical representations,” causing Jesus and the apostles to call upon it often to explain heavenly things and matters concerning Christian doctrine and conduct. Therefore, it provides an essential and necessary field of study for the Christian.​—Heb 10:1; 9:23.

“Law of the Christ.” Paul wrote: “Go on carrying the burdens of one another, and thus fulfill the law of the Christ.” (Ga 6:2) While the Law covenant was terminated at Pentecost, 33 C.E. (“since the priesthood is being changed, there comes to be of necessity a change also of the law”; Heb 7:12), Christians come “under law toward Christ.” (1Co 9:21) This law is called “the perfect law that belongs to freedom,” “the law of a free people,” “the law of faith.” (Jas 1:25; 2:12; Ro 3:27) Such a new law had been foretold by God through the prophet Jeremiah when he spoke of a new covenant and the writing of his law on the hearts of his people.​—Jer 31:31-34; Heb 8:6-13.

Like Moses, the mediator of the Law covenant, Jesus Christ is Mediator of the new covenant. Moses wrote the Law in code form, but Jesus did not personally put a law down in writing. He talked and put his law into the minds and hearts of his disciples. Neither did his disciples set down laws in the form of a code for Christians, classifying the laws into categories and subheadings. Nonetheless, the Christian Greek Scriptures are full of laws, commands, and decrees that the Christian is bound to observe.​—Re 14:12; 1Jo 5:2, 3; 4:21; 3:22-24; 2Jo 4-6; Joh 13:34, 35; 14:15; 15:14.

Jesus gave instruction to his disciples to preach the ‘good news of the kingdom.’ His command is found at Matthew 10:1-42; Luke 9:1-6; 10:1-12. At Matthew 28:18-20 a new command was given to Jesus’ disciples to go, not to the Jews only, but to all nations, to make disciples and baptize them with a new baptism, “in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you.” Thus, with divine authorization Jesus taught and issued commands while on earth (Ac 1:1, 2) as well as after his ascension. (Ac 9:5, 6; Re 1:1-3) The entire book of Revelation consists of prophecies, commands, admonition, and instruction to the Christian congregation.

The “law of the Christ” covers the whole course and scope of the Christian’s life and work. By the help of God’s spirit the Christian can follow the commands in order to be judged favorably by that law, for it is “the law of that spirit which gives life in union with Christ Jesus.”​—Ro 8:2, 4.What Does the Bible Say About Salvation?“Believe in Jesus”​—Is Belief in Jesus Enough for Salvation?

originally posted by: ThyJudgeCometh
a reply to: whereislogic

The more I read your post I'm sorry to say is cringey....

Not that surprising,

“For there will be a period of time when they will not put up with the wholesome* [Or “healthful; beneficial.”] teaching, but according to their own desires, they will surround themselves with teachers to have their ears tickled.* [Or “to tell them what they want to hear.”] They will turn away from listening to the truth and give attention to false stories.” (2 Timothy 4:3,4)

originally posted by: whereislogic
a reply to: ThyJudgeCometh

...
“Believe in Jesus”​—Is Belief in Jesus Enough for Salvation?

Just one text at the end of that article:

Hebrews 5:9: “[Jesus] became responsible for everlasting salvation to all those obeying him.”

Meaning: To gain salvation, people must both know and obey Jesus’ commands.

a reply to: whereislogic

So I asked you if you had to repent of sin to be saved, and you replied "If you are referring to the Mosaic Law? Then no...

Then at the very end of your long winded reply, you make the claim we have to know and obey his commandments for salvation...

There is one problem you've overlooked...

Matthew 22:36-40
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Jesus himself says the entire law from the day of the prophets, clearly referring to the Mosaic law, hang these 2 commandments, the law didn't pass away here, in fact he doubles down on it and actually makes it more severe... He says even if you look at a women with lust, you've committed adultery with her in your heart....

Basically if you even break 1 of the 613 Laws of Moses, you more then likely did not love the Lord God with all your heart, or your neighbor....

So I will ask you again, being that John tells us sin is a transgression of the law, do you have to repent of sin to be saved???

Here is the next issue, while I don't believe OT Saints or NT Saints had to keep the law for salvation("Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works", Romans 4:6) the Mosaic Law did not pass away...

Matthew 5:18
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

While Jesus did fulfill the law, in the sense he obeyed it perfectly, heaven and earth have yet to pass away...

So again now that there is no doubt the law has not passed away, and the 2 great commandments revolve around the entire law of Moses, and sin is a transgression of that law, do we have to repent of sin(obey the law) for salvation???

You spoke about the law of Christ... Now the Law of Christ is taking on the burdens of others so they might be saved...

Are you saying I must do that for salvation??? "If" you believe you have to do that for salvation, have you done this, and have you done it perfectly??? God's standard is perfection...

James 2:10
10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

Basically what the law of Christ is, is what Jesus did for us on the cross??? That is the perfection necessary if you are counting on that law keeping to save you... I think you need some humility here...

Not to mention, that seems like a lot of work to do for salvation, all this law keeping of whatever distinction it may be...

But the bible tells us very clear, by the deeds of the law shall no flesh be justified....

Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Now that we are saved by Grace, if you add works or law keeping to if, that's not good ....

Romans 11:6
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

In fact Paul tells now you are actually a debtor to do these things, as you have fallen from Grace(what saves you)...

Galatians 5:4
4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

Friend, your only hope is Jesus....

Another thing you responded to, when I said that what I have read of your was cringey, your reply was "yeah I bet not, there will come a time when they will not endure sound doctrine"

That is what I call a "plug and play scripture", even a Mormon and Jehovah's witness will use that against you... Don't be that guy... As opposed to being the plug and play scripture guy, why didn't you cover my point of contention on why I thought your post was cringey??? Which was the fact that dead works was Repenting of self justification.... Idk maybe you did respond to my point of contention about that, when you told me I didn't endure sound doctrine.... Is it not sound doctrine that dead works would also include self justification, which is repenting of sin???

Seems you are also making the claim(and correct me if I'm wrong) that while yes Jesus did command his disciples to preach the Gospel, that's fruit bearing... What does that have to do with salvation???

a reply to: whereislogic

You also seem to be confusing the Levitical law which include sacrifices and ordinances, to that of the Mosaic law which is the Moral law... They are not the same...

a reply to: whereislogic

One more thing, we do not recognize a Sabbath "DAY" anymore because Jesus is the Sabbath...

The Lord of the Sabbath is an expression describing Jesus which appears in all three Synoptic Gospels, Matthew 12:1–8, Mark 2:23–28 and Luke 6:1–5

So how do we rest now??? IN HIM....

Matthew 11:28-29
28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

originally posted by: ThyJudgeCometh
a reply to: whereislogic

So I asked you if you had to repent of sin to be saved, and you replied "If you are referring to the Mosaic Law? Then no...

No, you asked: "Do you believe we have to obey the law for salvation???" (in the comment I was responding to there)

Odd that you wouldn't remember your own question.

Then at the very end of your long winded reply, you make the claim we have to know and obey his commandments for salvation...

There is one problem you've overlooked...

Well, I quoted Hebrews 5:9: “[Jesus] became responsible for everlasting salvation to all those obeying him.” (2nd reply about that topic)

Pretty straightforward isn't it? Do you disagree with that biblical teaching? It says everlasting salvation "to all those obeying him".

“Why, then, do you call me ‘Lord! Lord!’ but do not do the things I say?” (Jesus at Luke 6:46)

So I will ask you again, being that John tells us sin is a transgression of the law, do you have to repent of sin to be saved???

In my first comment the following was already stated:

Human Repentance for Sins. The cause making repentance necessary is sin, failure to meet God’s righteous requirements. (1Jo 5:17) Since all mankind was sold into sin by Adam, all of his descendants have had need of repentance. (Ps 51:5; Ro 3:23; 5:12) As shown in the article RECONCILIATION, repentance (followed by conversion) is a prerequisite for man’s being reconciled to God.
...
..., repentance is a primary and essential step toward being brought into a right standing before God, with life everlasting in view.​—Ac 11:18; 17:30; 20:21.

Note the similarity between the expression "life everlasting" and "everlasting salvation" at Hebrews 5:9.

Perhaps if you quote the text from John that you are thinking about (couldn't find it in this thread) we can see whether John is talking about the Mosaic Law or any of the other ways the word "law" is used in the Scriptures.

Law (Insight on the Scriptures, Volume 2)

...
... The stated will of God becomes law to his creatures.​—See LEGAL CASE.

Law to Angels. ...

Law of Divine Creation. ...

Law to Adam. ...

Laws to Noah; Patriarchal Law. ...

Law of God to Israel​—The Law of Moses.

Law of Conscience. ...

“Law of the Christ.” ...[whereislogic: I focused on this one in my previous commentary]

“Law of God.” ...

Law of Sin and Death. ...

“Law of Faith.” ...

Law of Husband. ...

“Kingly Law.” The “kingly law” rightly has the prominence and importance among other laws governing human relationships that a king would have among men. (Jas 2:8) The tenor of the Law covenant was love; and “you must love your neighbor as yourself” (the kingly law) was the second of the commandments on which all the Law and the Prophets hung. (Mt 22:37-40) Christians, though not under the Law covenant, are subject to the law of the King Jehovah and his Son, the King Jesus Christ, in connection with the new covenant.

One of the songs in my previous commentary is about the “kingly law”(Jas 2:8). Song #25.

The first clue regarding John, would be this piece of information as mentioned earlier:

originally posted by: whereislogic
a reply to: ThyJudgeCometh
...
Law:

When it is capitalized, this word refers either to the Mosaic Law or to the first five books of the Bible. When it is lowercased, it may refer to individual laws of the Mosaic Law or a principle of law.​—Nu 15:16; De 4:8; Mt 7:12; Ga 3:24.

originally posted by: whereislogic
a reply to: ThyJudgeCometh

... Nonetheless, the Christian Greek Scriptures are full of laws, commands, and decrees that the Christian is bound to observe.​—Re 14:12; 1Jo 5:2, 3; 4:21; 3:22-24; 2Jo 4-6; Joh 13:34, 35; 14:15; 15:14.

Time to quote some of these texts concerning the topic of obeying/observing these laws and commands... (in order of appearance there):

Here is where it calls for endurance on the part of the holy ones, those who keep the commandments of God and hold fast to the faith of Jesus.”

By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and carry out his commandments. 3 For this is what the love of God means, that we observe his commandments; and yet his commandments are not burdensome,

And we have this commandment from him, that whoever loves God must also love his brother.

and whatever we ask we receive from him, because we are observing his commandments and doing what is pleasing in his eyes. 23 Indeed, this is his commandment: that we have faith in the name of his Son Jesus Christ and love one another, just as he gave us a commandment. 24 Moreover, the one who observes his commandments remains in union with him, and he in union with such one. And by the spirit that he gave us, we know that he remains in union with us.

I rejoice very much because I have found some of your children walking in the truth, just as we received commandment from the Father. 5 So now I request you, lady, that we love one another. (I am writing you, not a new commandment, but one that we had from the beginning.) 6 And this is what love means, that we go on walking according to his commandments. This is the commandment, just as you have heard from the beginning, that you should go on walking in it.

I am giving you a new commandment, that you love one another; just as I have loved you, you also love one another. 35 By this all will know that you are my disciples—if you have love among yourselves.”

“If you love me, you will observe my commandments. (Jesus speaking)

You are my friends if you do what I am commanding you. (still Jesus)

originally posted by: ThyJudgeCometh
a reply to: whereislogic

You also seem to be confusing the Levitical law which include sacrifices and ordinances, to that of the Mosaic law which is the Moral law... They are not the same...

Maybe I shouldn't have skipped this part from my other comment about the Sabbath in another thread:

Is the Mosaic Law divided into “ceremonial” and “moral” parts, and is the “moral law” (the Ten Commandments) binding on Christians?

Did Jesus refer to the Law in a manner that indicated division of it into two parts?

Matt. 5:17, 21, 23, 27, 31, 38: “Do not think I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I came, not to destroy, but to fulfill.” Now, notice what Jesus included in his further comments. “You heard that it was said to those of ancient times, ‘You must not murder [Ex. 20:13; the Sixth Commandment]’ . . . If, then, you are bringing your gift to the altar [Deut. 16:16, 17; no part of the Ten Commandments] . . . You heard that it was said, ‘You must not commit adultery [Ex. 20:14; the Seventh Commandment].’ Moreover it was said, ‘Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce [Deut. 24:1; no part of the Ten Commandments].’ You heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye and tooth for tooth [Ex. 21:23-25; no part of the Ten Commandments].’” (So, Jesus mixed together references to the Ten Commandments and other parts of the Law, making no distinction between them. Should we treat them differently?)

When Jesus was asked, “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” did he isolate the Ten Commandments? Instead, he replied: “‘You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind.’ This is the greatest and first commandment. The second, like it, is this, ‘You must love your neighbor as yourself.’ On these two commandments the whole Law hangs, and the Prophets.” (Matt. 22:35-40) If some cling to the Ten Commandments (Deut. 5:6-21), saying that they are binding on Christians but that the rest are not, are they not actually rejecting what Jesus said (quoting Deut. 6:5; Lev. 19:18) as to which commandments are the greatest?

That comes just before the question:

When referring to the passing away of the Mosaic Law, does the Bible directly say that the Ten Commandments were included in what came to an end?

The answer to that question shown earlier in the part I did quote concerning Rom. 7:6, 7 and 2 Cor. 3:7-11.

a reply to: whereislogic

There is really no reason to be so obtuse here, NT authors are always referring to the Mosaic law... That was the law that is our school master Paul speaks of...

1 John 3:4
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

John is clearly speaking of the Moral law here, so when I asked you do you believe we have to obey the law to be saved, since sin is a transgression of the law, Repenting of sin is literally saying obey the law....

So weather I had asked you do you feel we need to obey the law for salvation, or repent of sin for salvation, I'm literally saying the same thing both times....

I've already showed the law has not passed, and the 2 great commandments revolve around the ENTIRE law...

Do you not see the problem here???

Paul tells us nobody is saved by the deeds of the law, the 1 epistle of John tells us if you love me keep my commandments....

Now does 1 John say keep my commandments(which revolve around then entire law) for salvation???

No it doesn't, and that would be at complete dissonance with Paul when he said nobody is saved by the deeds of the law...

So I will ask you again, do you think we have to repent of sin(obey the law) for salvation???

a reply to: whereislogic

Before King Saul killed himself Samuel said he was the enemy of God, how was Saul saved then??? Does 1 John say you are my friend if you keep my commandments and therefore saved??? No it does not, you should be careful not to make a text say something it doesn't, because if it did say that then the fact the Saul was saved would make no sense...

After Saul brought forth summoned Samuel by the witch of endor, Samuel said Saul and his sons would die and be with him the next day... Samuel is in the hall of faith....

A commandment of God is that we abstain from fornication, and that we love God with all our heart... How was Solomon saved then???

He was a serial fornicator having 700 wives, and 300 concubines... At the end of his life he completely fell away and worshipped Pagan gods, how was he saved???

These 2 people alone are at dissonance with your point of having to be a commandment keeper to be saved... And I have many more examples....

a reply to: whereislogic

It is true that believing in Jesus is an act of obedience since God the Father commands us to listen to and believe in His Son (John 5:37-43).

Therefore, Heb 5:9 means Jesus is the author of eternal salvation to all who believe in Him, as having faith is a form of obedience... But to say we have to be obedient in law or commandment keeping for salvation would contradict 100's of clear verses stating otherwise, and Hebrews 5:9 does not make this distinction...

Furthermore, to take the context of Hebrews into account, this letter was written to Hebrews who had gonna back to animal sacrifices. This is a clear form of unbelief as it is denying the blood of Christ, showing that they were not obedient in the sense of the faith that saves....

I just laugh at the vast knowledge JW's have in Bible but yet lack the wisdom to truly understand.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Is this person I'm talking to a JW??? Wow that makes a lot of sense now....

originally posted by: ThyJudgeCometh
a reply to: whereislogic

... NT authors are always referring to the Mosaic law...

1 John 3:4
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

John is clearly speaking of the Moral law here, ...

Now I can see more clearly that John wasn't talking about the Mosaic Law there, as I suspected. But I don't think you want to hear it. Just like you don't want to hear that the Mosaic Law is not divided into “ceremonial” and “moral” parts, or as you put it, "the Levitical law" and "the Moral law". As explained in the comment you were responding to by means of answering the question:

"Did Jesus refer to the Law in a manner that indicated division of it into two parts?"

(remember, when "Law" is capitalized like that, it's referring to the Mosaic Law, as mentioned earlier.)

Here is 1 John 3:4 in some other translations by the way (as quoted from biblehub.com):

English Standard Version
Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness.

Berean Study Bible
Everyone who practices sin practices lawlessness as well. Indeed, sin is lawlessness.

Berean Literal Bible
Everyone committing sin also commits lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness.

New King James Version
Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.

New American Standard Bible
Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness.

NASB 1995
Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness.

NASB 1977
Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness.

Amplified Bible
Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness [...].

Christian Standard Bible
Everyone who commits sin practices lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness.

American Standard Version
Every one that doeth sin doeth also lawlessness; and sin is lawlessness.

English Revised Version
Every one that doeth sin doeth also lawlessness: and sin is lawlessness.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
Those who live sinful lives are disobeying God. Sin is disobedience. [remember what was mentioned earlier in my commentary which I repeated again later: "The stated will of God becomes law to his creatures.​" That is not talking about the Mosaic Law, or "Law of God to Israel​—The Law of Moses." as earlier described]

International Standard Version
Everyone who keeps living in sin also practices disobedience. In fact, sin is disobedience.

Literal Standard Version
Everyone who is doing sin, he also does lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness,

NET Bible
Everyone who practices sin also practices lawlessness; indeed, sin is lawlessness.

New Heart English Bible
Everyone who sins also commits lawlessness. Sin is lawlessness.

World English Bible
Everyone who sins also commits lawlessness. Sin is lawlessness.

Young's Literal Translation
Every one who is doing the sin, the lawlessness also he doth do, and the sin is the lawlessness,

Are you beginning to see a pattern here? I am, almost all of these use the rendering "lawlessness"* rather than "the law" as in the translation you quoted, apparently these translators noticed something that is not accurately reflected in the translation you used. These renderings leave no confusion as to whether or not John is referring to the Mosaic Law here. (*: I used a couple examples that didn't use "lawlessness" but also show that this is not referring to the Mosaic Law, i.e. the "Law of God to Israel​—The Law of Moses." There are a couple of translations I didn't quote that use the expression "the law of God", which is also elaborated on and used in my comment with the different usages of the words rendered "law" in the Bible, as it relates to the reminder that "The stated will of God becomes law to his creatures.​" That is not talking about the Mosaic Law, or "Law of God to Israel​—The Law of Moses." As mentioned earlier.)

New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures (Study Edition)
Everyone who practices sin is also practicing lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.

So no, "NT authors are" not "always referring to the Mosaic law" (quoting you) when they use words like "law" or "lawlessness". And the Mosaic Law isn't split up into 2 parts ("ceremonial/Levitical" and "moral"). As already shown earlier from the Bible, so I'm not going to repeat that again. It seems you are determined to disagree, present a different picture and use these terms differently. Making it a bit pointless for me to answer questions that I've already answered, just not the answer you were trying to hear or read into my commentary, or perhaps even paint onto my commentary.

originally posted by: ThyJudgeCometh
a reply to: whereislogic
...
Therefore, Heb 5:9 means Jesus is the author of eternal salvation to all who believe in Him, as having faith is a form of obedience...

originally posted by: ThyJudgeCometh

... you should be careful not to make a text say something it doesn't,

What Hebrews 5:9 does say is:

“[Jesus] became responsible for everlasting salvation to all those obeying him.”

Which is in perfect harmony with the rest of the Scriptures, including the examples quoted in relation to this remark:

Nonetheless, the Christian Greek Scriptures are full of laws, commands, and decrees that the Christian is bound to observe.​—Re 14:12; 1Jo 5:2, 3; 4:21; 3:22-24; 2Jo 4-6; Joh 13:34, 35; 14:15; 15:14.

I quoted them all before, so I'll only do one this time:

By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and carry out his commandments. 3 For this is what the love of God means, that we observe his commandments; and yet his commandments are not burdensome, (1 John 5:2,3)

I see nothing contradictory in these biblical teachings. It's also in harmony with what Jesus says at Matthew 7:21-27:

“Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. 22 Many will say to me in that day: ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them: ‘I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!’ [remember that "the stated will of God becomes law to his creatures.​"]
24 “Therefore, everyone who hears these sayings of mine and does them will be like a discreet man who built his house on the rock. 25 And the rain poured down and the floods came and the winds blew and lashed against that house, but it did not cave in, for it had been founded on the rock. 26 Furthermore, everyone hearing these sayings of mine and not doing them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. 27 And the rain poured down and the floods came and the winds blew and struck against that house, and it caved in, and its collapse was great.”

Which was what one of the songs I used earlier was about (Song 120 "Listen, Obey and Be Blessed"). You probably never even watched. Part of the real reason I quoted 2 Timothy 4:3,4 before. Not the motives you ascribed to me in your response to that text.

1) Jesus said: "your faith has saved you"

faith saves.

in this case you dont need the grace to be saved.

2) Jesus said: "do not sin anymore"
AFTER the sinner took refuge in Jesus. (that was the metanoia, change of paradigm, seeing the things different)

this complete "do not sin anymore" saves

3)you are realizing the small changes, that gradually change completely the original symbol.
stopping doing the things while inside is keeping the error(sin) is not enough.
but you remember that sin is related to 4 things: thinking, saying, doing, and not doing.
stopping is stopping of all that: thinking, saying, doing , or not doing that sin again.


4)"He who is without sin can cast the first stone”
The men realized that they are with sin in the action they were doing.
that was their metanoia.

then they couldnt throw the first stone.

5)mary was born with grace, then without orginal sin.
God's grace saves

6) jesus was without sin, the could cast the first stone... but he didnt
even if he had the right.

7)but, like when Pontius Pilate
jesus didnt said someting about himself. Jesus said: "You said it"
jesus left the others like john the baptist, or Pontius to said it.

then Jesus remained in grace.


faith saves,
God's grace saves,
complete "do not sin anymore" saves.