Gentleperson's Guide to Government Trolls.

originally posted by: EndtheMadnessNow

The (Literally) Unbelievable Story of the Original Fake News Network

Would say that's a rather important find right there mate.

And in that digging, we discovered something shocking.

In 1954, the CIA didn’t just use media manipulation to turn a country upside down and install the president that the U.S. wanted.

The agency wrote a six-stage, step-by-step playbook for exactly how to do it.

a reply to: karl 12

The only sensible sollution seems to be to just unplug and leave the Internet for what it is.

Internet chat room like ATS are not immume.

"the trolls don't have a chance against our sharp minds here on ATS"

lol...if only it were autistic trolls in basements. You and I can't beat the AI...fact

originally posted by: drinkbeker

"the trolls don't have a chance against our sharp minds here on ATS"

Who are you quoting there mate?

originally posted by: drinkbeker

The only sensible sollution seems to be to just unplug and leave the Internet for what it is.

Sounds a bit defeatist - why let a relatively small minority of deceitful losers deter people from engaging in free, rational enquiry on the world's most powerful information network?

Everybody worth their salt are fully aware these paid disinfo shills exist and what to watch out for.. so why not just laugh at their (pretty transparent) attempts to derail thread discussion and expose them for what they really are?

originally posted by: drinkbeker

lol...if only it were autistic trolls in basements. You and I can't beat the AI...fact

A.I. is a different story and suppose this thread's mainly about human CoIntelPro disinfo trolls and their shameful antics - would appreciate any info on realistic sounding A.I. imposters on internet forums.

a reply to: karl 12

ATS should do away with stars, keep flags


But they use stars to sway people

That hurts me psychologically

No more disinfo groups,

Nonesense seekers

originally posted by: karl 12
Who are you quoting there mate?

Wasn't quoting anybody particular, BBcode offers a fine [quote] [/quote] function for that......mate

Everybody worth their salt are fully aware these paid disinfo shills exist and what to watch out for... so why not just laugh at their (pretty transparent) attempts to derail thread discussion and expose them for what they really are?

Don't you think this is a gaping blind spot in your reasoning?

This is what I was quoting...what happens when even you (the great you) fails to recognise these paid disinfo shills.

A.I. is a different story and suppose this thread's mainly about human CoIntelPro disinfo trolls and their shameful antics - would appreciate any info on realistic sounding A.I. imposters on internet forums.

Wouldn't we all like to get a little more info on that...

originally posted by: drinkbeker

what happens when even you (the great you) fails to recognise these paid disinfo shills.

No need to be a dick about it and I'm certainly not anybody special.

Even the existence of paid disinfo agents was being scoffed at a few years ago and look at the freak sideshow we find ourselves in nowadays.

Given the huge amount of taxpayer money funding the 'industry' am sure a lot of highly specialized subversive psychology is being used against folks who are completely unaware of it (including me) .. but would also say a lot of folks have no problem in spotting the bottom feeders lol.

a reply to: karl 12

No need to be a dick about it and I'm certainly not anybody special.

He can't help it.

It's how he's built.

Just pity him, ignore his posts, and carry on.

originally posted by: karl 12
No need to be a dick about it and I'm certainly not anybody special.

Yeah...sorry about that. But in all fairness, you started it.

I always respect members such as yourself and the quality threads you deliver on ATS.

I was there when Jkrog08 announced you as a FSME and I couldn't agree more.

I was there when every other opinion was called out as a paid shill and why this had to be regulated by staff.

It is also very sad to see the state of affair we see today with a fine polarity between the members and everybody lumping in one or the other group and padding each other on the back for who dissed the other member best.

You used to be able to tell when school holidays were by the quality and content of the posts...now it's school holiday all year round.

but I digress...

Somewhere in the past you treated me like a dick and I have always thought we were on that foot.

originally posted by: Riffrafter
a reply to: karl 12

No need to be a dick about it and I'm certainly not anybody special.

He can't help it.

It's how he's built.

Just pity him, ignore his posts, and carry on.

High five!! Got him good man!!

Very constructive...

a reply to: drinkbeker

I don't think people realise just how many people are paid to post on this website

This site is like no other, and if your clever, and you study who's who, it's easy to find the agenda

.... And there could be sleepers (there is)

All innocent until its their turn to disinform

a reply to: Riffrafter


Hola Riffrafter - pretty basic and haven't got the link but some more trolly attributes below (also a nice pic).

Trolls are now being openly employed by governments in countries like the U.S. and Israel specifically to scour the internet for alternative news sites and disrupt their ability to share information.

Trolls use a wide variety of strategies, some of which are unique to the internet, here are just a few:



• 1) Make outrageous comments designed to distract or frustrate: An Alinsky tactic used to make people emotional, although less effective because of the impersonal nature of the web.



• 2) Pose as a supporter of the truth, then make comments that discredit the movement: We have seen this even on our own forums — trolls pose as supporters of the Liberty Movement, then post long, incoherent diatribes so as to appear either racist or insane.

The key to this tactic is to make references to common Liberty Movement arguments while at the same time babbling nonsense, so as to make those otherwise valid arguments seem ludicrous by association.

In extreme cases, these “Trojan Horse Trolls” have been known to make posts which incite violence — a technique obviously intended to solidify the false assertions of the notorious MIAC report and other ADL/SPLC publications which purport that constitutionalists should be feared as potential domestic terrorists.



• 3) Dominate Discussions: Trolls often interject themselves into productive web discussions in order to throw them off course and frustrate the people involved.



• 4) Prewritten Responses: Many trolls are supplied with a list or database with pre-planned talking points designed as generalized and deceptive responses to honest arguments. 9/11 “debunker” trolls are notorious for this.



• 5) False Association: This works hand in hand with item #2, by invoking the stereotypes established by the “Trojan Horse Troll.”

For example: calling those against the Federal Reserve “conspiracy theorists” or “lunatics”. Deliberately associating anti-globalist movements with big foot or alien enthusiasts, because of the inherent negative connotations. Using false associations to provoke biases and dissuade people from examining the evidence objectively.



• 6) False Moderation: Pretending to be the "voice of reason” in an argument with obvious and defined sides in an attempt to move people away from what is clearly true into a “grey area” where the truth becomes “relative.”



• 7) Straw Man Arguments: A very common technique. The troll will accuse his opposition of subscribing to a certain point of view, even if he does not, and then attacks that point of view. Or, the troll will put words in the mouth of his opposition, and then rebut those specific words.



Sometimes, these strategies are used by average people with serious personality issues. However, if you see someone using these tactics often, or using many of them at the same time, you may be dealing with a paid internet troll.

a reply to: karl 12

Was glancing across this thread from early October, looking at the interesting health info.

But noticed that it was also an interesting case-study, on the subject of this thread, especially in how the exchanges evolved through the thread, to the rather abruptish end.

a reply to: drinkbeker

You and I can't beat the AI...fact

Sure we can.

And since I design AI systems for a living, I'll be happy to show people how to defeat it.

They *all* have an achilles heel. Some are ridiculously easy to find. Others may be a little harder, but a little probing and prodding ought to get the system to freak out, flip a few bits and show it's soft underbelly.

It's not that hard. Especially if you can "think bent" for lack of a better term...

a reply to: Riffrafter

Yeah...you design weak AI. Cool beans!!

I'm not talking about Siri or Alexa, simple machine learning algorithms.

I'm talking Artificial General Intelligence..(or even ASI)

Moore's law in full effect with your thread on IBM's new 127-qubit quantum processor.

I'm guessing that, even with your experience in the field of AI, you won't be the first to learn we have reached the singularity.

ETA:

originally posted by: Riffrafter
He can't help it.

It's how he's built.

Just pity him, ignore his posts, and carry on.

Doing a bang up job at following your own advise there...

a reply to: The GUT

Hello there dear Bro, nice to see you.
I guess we have learned a few things here
on ATS and here and there about spies and such
What a crazy world eh?

-> inserts hug

a reply to: drinkbeker

Yeah...you design weak AI. Cool beans!!

You really shouldn't talk about things that you know nothing about.

The AI systems that I've designed in my career are squarely in the strong AI category. A few of which are *very* strong.

If there is a true singularity I haven't seen it or any evidence of it yet. Nor have I heard anything from my peers within the AI design & development community. There are a few systems that are definitely knocking on the door though. And without exception, those systems and their designers are well known to DARPA and by extension the DoD.

Of course, there's always the genius kid in the basement like a young Professor Falken from the movie "Wargames" that might get lucky and get there first. But the biggest problem in that scenario is that he/she are definitely not taking even minimal precautions. At a minimum, the systems used to design, develop and run this singularity should be air-gapped.

Many of the systems I work on are air-gapped - just in case.

There are way too many variables and unknowns in the AI world. The known unknowns are scary enough, but it's the unknown unknowns that scares the bejesus out of people. Hence there is intense DARPA, DoD and military "interest"...

originally posted by: Riffrafter
You really shouldn't talk about things that you know nothing about.

The AI systems that I've designed in my career are squarely in the strong AI category. A few of which are *very* strong.

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence"
-Carl Sagan

Let me guess...non disclosure agreement?

Now I know you know I don't know what I'm talking about but if Strong artificial intelligence or artificial general intelligence (AGI) is defined as a machine that has an intelligence equal to humans; it would have a self-aware consciousness that has the ability to solve problems, learn, and plan for the future.

What is the definition of "very strong AI"?

Asking stupid questions here but since you designed it you must be able to lift the veil a little on that, right?

originally posted by: drinkbeker

originally posted by: Riffrafter
You really shouldn't talk about things that you know nothing about.

The AI systems that I've designed in my career are squarely in the strong AI category. A few of which are *very* strong.

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence"
-Carl Sagan

Let me guess...non disclosure agreement?

Now I know you know I don't know what I'm talking about but if Strong artificial intelligence or artificial general intelligence (AGI) is defined as a machine that has an intelligence equal to humans; it would have a self-aware consciousness that has the ability to solve problems, learn, and plan for the future.

What is the definition of "very strong AI"?

Asking stupid questions here but since you designed it you must be able to lift the veil a little on that, right?

I do have non disclosure agreements of a sort - yes, I signed a lot of paperwork but what keeps me in check and what I adhere to is the oath I have taken in order work where I currently do.

None of the things you ask would cause me to run afoul of my superiors or endanger my clearances. They're good, general questions and have been covered pretty extensively in the media/press, albeit at a very superficial level.

In a nutshell, strong AI can "think outside of the box" and generalize based on past learned knowledge in other domains that may be applicable. It isn't restricted to a very narrow area of knowledge like an expert system would be. Not only does it retain it's learned knowledge in some form or another, it builds upon what is has learned such that it isn't constantly re-inventing the wheel every time.

Weak AI on the other hand cannot generalize and tends to be good at one thing and one thing only. For example, it might make an outstanding "Banker in a box" but it has no concept of the cost or value of a gallon of milk. Or the value of hard work in order to earn the money to deposit in that bank or buy that gallon of milk.

I hope that helps.

a reply to: karl 12

I've given this some thought.

“We have met the enemy, and he is us.”
-Pogo

The problem with trolls lies within our own ideas of self-worth, our own egos. We think what we write is read by millions of people. Subsequently, whatever is said against us (we think) is also read by millions of people.

We project own own inflated sense of importance on the trolls.

Humility is a commodity Diogenes could never find.

I often start posts stating, "As an internet expert. . . . . " because I am, but most people actually aren't.

We have websites even categorizing these "humble-brags" and everyone mocks them.

But they continue because of our own egos.

You mods often warn of the dangers of the "Digital Ego" and how it can get people into trouble. The troll, be it government or corporate or otherwise, uses our own inflated egos against us.

They play against our own idea of self-worth.

Recognizing how insignificant we actually are might be a start in defeating the troll and their importance in any discussion.

Just my 2 cents, but as an internet expert. . . . . .

originally posted by: Riffrafter
I hope that helps.

Hardly...you seems to be hinting at deep learning.

It doesn't matter, I was still kind of amused by the fact that you would say:

The AI systems that I've designed in my career are squarely in the strong AI category. A few of which are *very* strong.

While at the same time telling people not to talk about things they don't know anything about.

I've have been going over most my sources and between Weak AI (artificial narrow intelligence) / Strong AI (artificial general intelligence (AGI) / Super AI (artificial superintelligence (ASI) there really doesn't seem any definition for "very strong AI".

Anyway...mad props for developing conscious machines. (very conscious even...) and let's not derail Karl's thread any more than we already have.