Are Companies using Non Vaccination as an excuse to get rid of workers

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
Frankly I don't GAF what they do, that's their decision, not mine.

Then why are you always on here telling people what to do, to go on unemployment or whatever else you say alla time? Stop trying to imitate our government overlords. It's not becoming on you. (Or anybody.)

a reply to: JAGStorm

You may be on to something.

I think in industries like software/IT, if you are skilled and valuable employee, concessions may be made for you. Terminating someone over their vaccine status is not a knee-jerk reaction tech companies will do, unless the Biden Bunch start breathing down their neck, at least from what I've seen. We have no problem booking interviews where I work, but finding qualified people is still challenging, and even if you hire a rock-star software engineer, they WILL have a ramp-up time to learn the intricacies and nuances of how their company operates, no matter how bright they are. These roles are not really fungible, nor are they dead simple to find replacements in a short time period.

I can definitely see this as a chance for other businesses to cull the herd, though. But when push comes to shove, how many people actually make their company fire them rather than just submit and get the shot. So far, I have personally not known many people to stand their ground.

I very much admire the courage and integrity of those who have sacrificed their job and career to refuse to submit to an immoral and questionably legal mandates.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Do you know how many companies are Government contractor's? Kind of staggering. That's the Executive order. The OSHA requirement affects everybody Government contractor or not.

a reply to: JAGStorm

Most companies don't need another way to get rid of employees, they already have many at their disposal. How far they are willing to go depends on how badly they want to get rid of someone. It could be anything from a simple, "We don't have enough work lined up to keep you busy," to, "We are reorganizing the department and your position no longer exists." If its a big company and they worry about civil action they just use it as an excuse to clean house and get rid of all the problem people at once. With a general house cleaning its hard to claim you were unfairly targeted.

a reply to: Nyiah

I've been working from home for the better part of a decade now, same as my colleagues who have moved up in the security community. Give the CEOs and management that feel they need to have a microscopic view of that employees do aging out of the game and work from home will be the new standard.

It comes with its own challenges of course and I'm lucky to have a dedicated office space in my home that I can disconnect from at the end of the day. That's another thing that will become a norm, the new construction with a dedicated office space for occupants. I know not everyone flourishes in this type of environment but a surprisingly large number of workers do. It's about setting realistic expectations with the employer and the employee, that you will make the important meetings but may take a bit of time to respond to routine requests as your day is more open ended

Addressing the cash cow aspect, I worked in IT after the .com bust, and had the opportunity to get in on the ground floor which I'm glad I didn't take. It allowed me to focus on my actual passion of cyber security, which given the human element in enterprises (a $100 gift card or Covid information? Sign me up) and a lack of capabilities to automate currently, it's not going anywhere soon and I already have my next move planned out.

Unfortunately most folks don't quite understand how to read some of the future trends and will be left behind. If you can't adapt you'll fail and it's not on anyone else but you.

The learn to code mantra is BS, it's not coding that makes you successful, is understanding the industry you're in and trying to stay ahead of it, which has been the same forever. You play the game or don't, no crying if you or anyone else doesn't get it, most industries are done with that and have a massive crop of talent to pull from these days.

originally posted by: JIMC5499

originally posted by: matafuchs
a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Except companies are also requiring remote workers to vax up. How is that even logical?

Biden's mandate requires it. It makes no allowances for people working from home. If you are an employee, you have to get vaccinated. I don't look for this to stand up in Court.

Actually, the new OSHA guidelines are giving a pass to people working from home.

I also noticed that the OSHA guidelines are giving everyone a choice on being vaccinated or tested weekly. As far as I know, there are no more headaches concerning medical or religious exemptions, unless the private employers want to demand this on their own. The only down side to the testing option is that the employees have to pay for it themselves.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: TrulyColorBlind
Continually repeating your mantra isn't going to make it true, Mr. Potato Head.

Wow, sick burn Francis. Maybe you look up to people who interview 60+ times and can't find a job, but I don't admire behavior that's basically the definition of insanity.

There goes those reading skills again. Jag said that they APPLIED to 60 plus jobs. They didn't interview that many times.

a reply to: JAGStorm

There are so many different scenarios going on, it's hard to know for sure what the primary reasons are.

Personally, I think it's just a matter of time before all employers turn their employees into independent contractors so that they don't have to worry about all of these time consuming and costly regulations any longer. Any laws we currently have trying to keep employers from doing so will all be overlooked and go to the wayside.

How long before employers see their insurance costs go through the roof over this whole Covid AND vaccine disaster too? We'll no longer be able to tell if the future majority of health concerns will be self induced or caused by some side effect of the virus and/or vaccine.

A lot of employers were probably understaffed before all of this started. The current headaches are going to slow everything down some more and it will take longer to get people hired on. Most of the Human Resource departments of large corporations are a joke in themselves in the way they operate AND the people they choose to handle such responsibilities. I've never seen an efficient H.R. department...ever.

a reply to: JAGStorm

Are Companies using Non Vaccination as an excuse to get rid of workers?

Obviously not, since it's up to the worker to make the vax decision or get fired.

But getting rid of all your laziest, most disruptive, most entitled workers and helping fight the pandemic at the same time is a hell of a bonus, don't you think?

originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: JAGStorm

There are so many different scenarios going on, it's hard to know for sure what the primary reasons are.

Personally, I think it's just a matter of time before all employers turn their employees into independent contractors so that they don't have to worry about all of these time consuming and costly regulations any longer. Any laws we currently have trying to keep employers from doing so will all be overlooked and go to the wayside.

Doing that would require an awful lot of additional administration, and it would make it a lot more difficult for some companies to hold on to highly trained people or people with very specific skills. For companies like Amazon which have armies of low skilled people the administrative costs alone would be prohibitive simply because you would lose uniformity.

DING DING DING WE HAVE A WINNER a reply to: JAGStorm

It’s called statistics. Like how companies knowingly put out cars that may have safety failures and weigh the cost of a recall vs potential law suits. It has nothing to do with the individual and everything to do with cold hard numbers, obviously.

a reply to: Astyanax

originally posted by: TrulyColorBlind
Then why are you always on here telling people what to do, to go on unemployment or whatever else you say alla time?

It appears that the people you admire, losers who keep do the same thing over and over with failed results, need to be told what to do since they're banging their numpty heads against a wall expecting a different outcome.

originally posted by: JIMC5499
That's the Executive order.

That isn't until next year and will likely get overturned.

Not including the fact that the government will be fining companies into compliance. $14,000 per incident. Then factor in disgruntled fired workers snitching on those with fake vax, or fakers, mixed with whistleblowers snitching on their own company etc etc it’s going to be a mess.

CEO pisses John off: Oh right, see Jody down the hall, he has a fake vax card, John is reporting your company for not vetting its employees, he hates Jody and reports him too. Double whammy double fines.

a reply to: Deetermined

I stand corrected. My employer is requiring it and is blaming OSHA.

originally posted by: Astyanax
But getting rid of all your laziest, most disruptive, most entitled workers and helping fight the pandemic at the same time is a hell of a bonus, don't you think?

I know of a few places where they were the FIRST ones to be vaccinated.

This is happening, at least, here in Spain for sure.
During the height of the restrictions here in Spain, companies could fire workers with years of veterancy in the company without the obligatory golden handshake. All they had to do is give as a readon that they couldn't support the worker anymore because of the economic effects of the pandemic..

And they thankfully used that option en-masse.. hiring temps in return.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: JAGStorm
Have you seen stories of people that have applied to 60+ places and are only getting one or two interviews? You know when they say sometimes thing are not as they appear, I think we are living it.

My team is hiring and has been hiring, there aren't enough people with the skill set we need in the industry. This is a job seekers market and people need to leverage their value. If you're doing 60+ interviews and not getting a job than you're a potato.

100%.

Also, if your wages aren’t rising right now you may also be heading for potato status.