Anybody still care about Patrick Tillman?

I do. I just can't let this one lie. Its like his spirit is calling to me from the other side, crying out for Truth and Justice.

I'm sure his parents still care, they've demanded a complete investigation into his death. I'm sure the Army will oblige, but what's needed is an independent commission, as if that will ever happen. As if there actually is one. It took the Army over a month to acknowledge that he 'probably' was killed by friendly fire.

Killed by friendly fire.

I don't know alot about Pat Tillman, other than he was a maverick, a man of conscience, a singularity.

My concern is that he stumbled on something over there that he wasn't part of, that he knew was wrong, and that he tried to stop. Something like what I consider to be the real problem in the world today. He may have thought he had back-up on his mission up that canyon. It turned out he had a hit squad on his back, if you ask me.

Explain to me how it could be in the report I read that he came under small arms fire from his supporting unit, took hits and was wounded, popped smoke and waved his bleeding arms as he sceamed for his own troops to cease fire on him, and was cut down by 50cal machine gun fire from the top of a Humvee. Oh, and their radios just happened to lose reception at this critical time because of the steep canyon walls. And why would it take the Army over a month to say he 'probably' was killed by friendly fire, unless they needed time to transfer personnel, create cover stories, synchronize their lies, and cover their tracks? Its pretty clear from the get-go that he was killed by friendly fire. I am unable to retrieve that report at this time but continue to search for the original document I read.

Meanwhile, the answers are out there somewhere, aren't they. Or was it really just a tragic case of mistaken identity? I honestly doubt it. Like I said, there is a voice crying out to me from the other side for Truth and Justice, and it belongs to Pat Tillman, a True American. May God bless and keep him.

Ok, here's the link I was looking for.

U.S. Military lied about Tillman's death

Man, this is even more horrible than I thought. I still don't buy all of this latest 'official' story.

[edit on 26-3-2005 by Icarus Rising]

From the reading I have done, Tillman was a good dude. Anybody in his or her right mind would have not done what he did. By leaving his family and all the money he had was in the "True American Spirit."
Not only did he prove his love for America, he went and made the ultimate scrafice. It's a shame he had to give his life for us in a way, but it's really a pisser that the govt. had covered up the fact that it was "freindly fire"
I'm an Air Force Vet. and I know first hand how it is to deal with death. It's not a good thing to have to go through.
If it makes you feel any better, Tillman chose to die for his country and folks like him are a rare breed: He lead by example and did not look back.
R.I.P.

Flyin' High - Thanks for weighing in. My Dad was a MCSOG aviator.

I'm a nobody.

Semper Fi


High Flight
John Magee, Jr.


Oh, I have slipped the surly bonds of earth
And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings
Sunward I’ve climbed, and joined the tumbling mirth
Of sun-split clouds – and done a hundred things
You have not dreamed of – wheeled and soared and swung
High in the sunlit silence. Hov’ring there,
I’ve chased the shouting wind along, and flung
My eager craft through footless halls of air.
Up, up the long, delirious, burning blue
I’ve topped the windswept heights with easy grace
Where never lark, nor even eagle flew.
And, while with silent, lifting mind I’ve trod
The high untrespassed sanctity of space,
Put out my hand, and touched the face
Of God.




[edit on 26-3-2005 by Icarus Rising]

No, I'm sorry but I find your statement to be bullfunky.

Lots of people die in blue on blue's.

Also, you can't just transfer someone out of the Ranger Reg- it doesn't work like that.

DeltaNine -

Thanks for weighing in, weak rebuttal. Just because lots of good soldiers die in friendly fire incidents doesn't make it ok, it actually makes it worse. Your callousness is not to be mistaken for bravado. I'd say that the people in charge of the military can pretty much do what they want to with the rank and file, 'Ranger Reg' or no. And just how does it work? And how do you know? You sound like a mouthpiece for the coverup to me.

What are you? Some jarhead hating swabbie squid, or just a wannabee special ops vet? An opiate addict, maybe?

Magnum P.I. would be ashamed of you. You should change your avatar.

Originally posted by DeltaNine
Also, you can't just transfer someone out of the Ranger Reg- it doesn't work like that.

Actually you can, however you have to justify it. While it is rare, it does happen. Last time I checked the leading reason was drug use.

Icarus, in what way was Tillman a Maverick?

I wear his jersey every saturday between 2 and 4.

I didn't say it made it OK at all. The US has a notorious reputation for blue on blues.

I hang around on 75 Reg web sites. You pick up a fair amount, especially being on one for 4 years.

My rebuttle is weak? Your whole damn argument is weak. What you're saying is, is that these people killed someone they consider a BROTHER. There is no way any of those guys would obey an order like that.

And for another, all this would be logged at some point.

ALSO, it takes time for an investigation to run its course. It's not "plainly obvious." It takes time to interview the persons involved and formulate a
finding.

But this doesn't fit in with your preconceived notions, does it?

You know what? I've never been spoken down to by an idiot like yourself, and I'm not about to start now.

Good morning to you.

Originally posted by COOL HAND

Originally posted by DeltaNine
Also, you can't just transfer someone out of the Ranger Reg- it doesn't work like that.

Actually you can, however you have to justify it. While it is rare, it does happen. Last time I checked the leading reason was drug use.

Icarus, in what way was Tillman a Maverick?

Well yes, that was my point. A mass DX would raise eyebrows.

Cool Hand -

Tillman was a maverick in the sense that he went against the grain of society in giving up his career in the NFL to serve our country. Unusual to say the least.


DeltaNine -

At least I have an argument, chump. Why don't you use your P.I. skills to come up with one? And I'm talking straight across to you, in your face. What are you going to do about it, disparage my intelligence some more? Go back to your Reg sites - and good morning to you, sir.

Originally posted by Icarus Rising
Cool Hand -

Tillman was a maverick in the sense that he went against the grain of society in giving up his career in the NFL to serve our country. Unusual to say the least.

There are hundreds, if not thousands, of people who have given up lucrative careers to join the military. Does that make them all mavericks as well?

Since when did joining the military go against the grain of society?

[edit on 28/3/05 by COOL HAND]

Cool Hand -

You make valid points. Tillman did what alot of other patriotic Americans are doing, he just got his name in the papers for it. His maverick quality (not an enlisted person who becomes an officer thing) is really just a sidebar to this post. I think the tag is justified given what I've read about him. What do you think of the conspiracy angle in his death? Have you checked out the link in in my second post?

Joining the military doesn't go against the grain of society at all, and it wasn't my intention to say it did. I do believe that those thousands of people you referenced are exceptions that prove the rule - there are still alot of Proud Americans out there. And thank God for that!

Originally posted by Icarus Rising
Cool Hand -

You make valid points. Tillman did what alot of other patriotic Americans are doing, he just got his name in the papers for it. His maverick quality (not an enlisted person who becomes an officer thing) is really just a sidebar to this post. I think the tag is justified given what I've read about him. What do you think of the conspiracy angle in his death? Have you checked out the link in in my second post?

I think you are referring to a MUSTANG, an enlisted member who gains a commission. As far as a conspiracy, that is just bunk. Blue on Blue is an unfortunate aspect of war that has been around since the beginning.

Cool Hand-

Thanks for the correction, I confused Mustang and Maverick (its still early, and I'm fired up!). I hope I am wrong about this. This incident is different from most. Alot of FF incidents are BVR or long range shots. This one was within 100 yards, with smoke and flares signifying friendly units under fire, there was a cease fire, Tillman stood up (which probably wasn't a great idea at the time) and started chattering excitedly (I don't blame him), and then the 50cal opened up again and cut him down, blowing his head off. Definitely not the typical FFF.

Of course it doesn't have to be a conspiracy, it is still a tragedy, and the Army has handled it poorly.

Harsh words uncalled for and apology offered to DeltaNine. He's just trying to do his job.

Cool Hand and his 'maverick' digression is another story all together, and will get no apologies from me. Let's all discuss pre-conceived dead-end inconsequentialities, and see if we can kill every thread that threatens the establishment. Snake in the grass.

It doesn't have to be a conspiracy to eliminate a threat to the poppy people, but I think it very well could be. It is definitely a conspiracy on many other levels, and should be discussed as such.

Originally posted by Icarus Rising
Cool Hand and his 'maverick' digression is another story all together, and will get no apologies from me. Let's all discuss pre-conceived dead-end inconsequentialities, and see if we can kill every thread that threatens the establishment. Snake in the grass.

How is that a digression? You put out a piece of information that I was unsure if you were using correctly. I was not trying to derail your arguement in any way by it. I was actaully trying to (gasp) deny ignorance.

It doesn't have to be a conspiracy to eliminate a threat to the poppy people, but I think it very well could be. It is definitely a conspiracy on many other levels, and should be discussed as such.

What conspiracy are you trying to prove? Tillman was killed for what reason?

There is numerous cases of blue on blue happening in similar circumstances. Once the bullets start flying, all reasoning goes out the door. You engage any targets that appear to be hostile.

Perhaps it would be better if you posted the report that you read so that we can all see where you are coming from?

Uh, cool hand, I did post the link (titled "US Military lied about Tillman's death" in red) in the second post to this thread, pretty clearly, I thought. I already asked if you had checked out the link, as well.

That's the jumping off point for my conspiracy connection to the poppy people (heroin establishment), which I link in the thread lead (titled "real problem" in red).

Please don't tell me you weren't waiting to jump on whatever my response was to the 'maverick' question, its pretty obvious and we've already been over that via u2u.

What are you talking about?

Agreed Icarus Rising, I too think about Tillman & the tragedy of errors involving his death. People go on with their microcosmic lives, captivated by superficial heros on tv and the movies, endorsing their favorite fictitious myths with their attention & money, while their apathy for the real deal... sentences the truly heroic into oblivion. People sitting comfortably in their safety zone can recite apathetic diatribes about how it was his choice and consequences followed, but NOBODY can EVER question his honor or accuse him of being a pansy:
Update:
Tillman declined discharge in '03

Saturday April 16, 2005 5:57PM
PHOENIX (AP) -- Four months before he was killed in Afghanistan, Pat Tillman was told that he could opt out of extending his military service because NFL clubs were interested in him.

Tillman chose to stay in the Army Rangers,

"And they all said the same thing: 'Frank, this kid can get out of it. He's already served in a war. Just file his discharge papers,"' the agent, Frank Bauer, told The Arizona Republic.

He urged Tillman to consider seeking a discharge.

"He said 'No, I'm going to stay. I owe them three years. I'll do one more tour,"' Bauer said. "And that's the last I ever heard from Pat."

Tillman's decision "may be remarkable to everybody else," said brother-in-law Alex Garwood, director of the Pat Tillman Foundation. "But not if you knew Pat."

Tillman chose to stay in the Army Rangers, and on April 22, 2004, he was shot by a fellow U.S. soldier who mistakenly fired on a friendly Afghan soldier in Tillman's unit. Other U.S. soldiers then fired in the same direction

The Defense Department has completed an investigation into Tillman's death that was aimed at concerns raised about whether the Army held back information, but its findings won't be made public, Lt. Col. Pamela Hart, an Army spokeswoman at the Pentagon, said this past week.

Sports Illustrated Article

A Respected Fallen Soldier Of My Nation

Spc. Tillman died in service to the armed forces of the United States of America.

That puts him in very distinguished company and earns him my eternal respect.

On Veteran's Day, when it is my custom to pour a libation on the ground at the setting of the sun in a gesture of love, respect and honor for my fallen comrades in arms, I will remember him as I remember all the many, many others whose tragic loss in battle breaks my heart anew each year, who will never grow old, and who will never fade from my memory as long as I draw breath on this earth.

And I will salute him crisply, as I salute the rest of my countrymen who have offered the ultimate sacrifice for a cause whose worthiness will never tarnish, as I always do when I honor their sacred memory with my tears.

That's pretty much all I have to say on the matter.