Thank You Germany & France...for the knife in the back!

Originally posted by Otts
I think that's somewhat too simplistic. I would never say that someone who despises my Prime minister despises most of my country... I don't like him, I voted for him because he's the lesser of two evils, and I suspect a good number of Americans voted for Bush for the same reason. Disapproval of a leader doesn't mean disapproval of the contry itself.

You're right, Otts. Except in our case we were right in our assessment of the two evils. From what I can see, no one, and I mean no one could be worse than Bush (and Co. - the real brains behind the operation)!

how many french troops died? They were on friggen boats! They sat off the coast and bombarded the British after we cornered them. The only French that died were the ones who came over independently to fight. I am not saying that France owes America, by any means. But they could start acting like a friend. Quick Analogy: Someone wants to fight you, your friend says i am your friend and then goes and gives the guy who wants to fight you a baseball bat and says goodluck. Yeah that is a great friend. Although we aren't at war, there is no doubt that China is very agressive towards the US, and a war may break out between us at some point in modern time. It isn't about being someones bitch, it is about being a friend. Just like france was during Vietnam... moot point. The point is be a friend and not an asshole.

Originally posted by Ryanp5555
how many french troops died? They were on friggen boats! They sat off the coast and bombarded the British after we cornered them.

So military aid only is apreciated if the country sends soldiers or marines to fight?
Not sailors?

The only French that died were the ones who came over independently to fight. I am not saying that France owes America, by any means. But they could start acting like a friend.

They have been friends....if they werent why dont they sell to every "evil" nation on the planet that is americas enemy?

Quick Analogy: Someone wants to fight you, your friend says i am your friend and then goes and gives the guy who wants to fight you a baseball bat and says goodluck. Yeah that is a great friend. Although we aren't at war, there is no doubt that China is very agressive towards the US, and a war may break out between us at some point in modern time. It isn't about being someones bitch, it is about being a friend. Just like france was during Vietnam... moot point. The point is be a friend and not an asshole.

The analogy implies the european people are selling ICBM's or typhoons, which we're not.
China is agressive because america is agressive....
The only war will involved taiwan.
How is being a friend doing everything what YOU say?

Originally posted by Ryanp5555
The point is be a friend and not an asshole.

Right on Ryan.

There are a few like us in ATS, your not alone.

The French and German have lost all concept of Good and Bad....Friend and Enemies. Socialism views everyone as "equal" and just thats not the way the world is. There are some evil MF'ers on this earth that want to see America taken down.

What does Max want? I want my Kids and Grandkids to grow up in the same America I did...maybe a little better. I want them safe and our "friends" selling weapons to the RED CHINESE sure won't help our next generation.

OUR KIDS AND GRANDKIDS MAY BE FACING THESE WEAPONS.....SOON!!
The Chinese will take these weapon designs and start selling them to Iran and North Korea and the rest of the bastards who want us DEAD.

As an American, does'nt that make you Angry? If Not, your in need of help....serious help.


Maximu§




[edit on 103030p://444 by LA_Maximus]

La , what kind of american dictates to another american how and why he should act?
If you dont like germans and the french because they didnt back you in iraq and are selling some weapons to china then thats ok, we dont care if you dont like them and I'm sure they dont ethier.
But before you go insulting them ask yourself howmany have died and are still dieing alongside YOUR troops......

never used, only dropped once.

The French are only good for one thing.......surrendering.

Originally posted by ferretman
never used, only dropped once.

The French are only good for one thing.......surrendering.

Mods can you please remove this before it starts something?

You would be surprised how many times countries have sold weapons that ended up being used against their allies (American weapons have ended up in the hands of dictators being used against Aussie soldiers more than once) and sometimes weapons even get used against the country that sold them. China is obviously a big market for weapon makers and with countries like Russia and Israel already selling them advanced weapons i don't see how adding Europe to the list would increase their capabilities all that much. Even with the embargo lifted it's going to be hard for them to break into the market because the Russians are at about the same tech level as them and more willing to sell things without restriction i would think. Plus i wouldn't be surprised if China has indigenous tech that is better than anything Europe has in the near future and won't even want to buy weapons from them. If they were planning a war they sure wouldn't want to be relying on imported weapons to fight it.

LA Maximus:

The French and German have lost all concept of Good and Bad....Friend and Enemies. Socialism views everyone as "equal" and just thats not the way the world is. There are some evil MF'ers on this earth that want to see America taken down.

What does Max want? I want my Kids and Grandkids to grow up in the same America I did...maybe a little better. I want them safe and our "friends" selling weapons to the RED CHINESE sure won't help our next generation.

OUR KIDS AND GRANDKIDS MAY BE FACING THESE WEAPONS.....SOON!!
The Chinese will take these weapon designs and start selling them to Iran and North Korea and the rest of the bastards who want us DEAD.

As an American, does'nt that make you Angry? If Not, your in need of help....serious help.

You are living on a totally different planet than the rest of us.

This is EXACTLY what the rest of the world hates people like you for (Americans who are blinded by their own misguided unquestioning patriotism).

Wanna talk "lost all concept of Good and Bad....Friend and Enemies."?

Whose intelligence agency helped overthrow a democratically elected government in Chile in 1973, causing the deaths of tens of thousands of people?

Who supplied weapons to Iran AND Iraq during the Iran-Iraq War?

Who overthrew the democratically elected leader of Iran and helped install a puppet government that is STILL causing problems?

Who supplies Israel with all the military hardware and money they need to keep subjugating the Palestinians?

REALITY CHECK: Nation-states in the modern world, - regardless of what they say their ideology is - consistently work to maintain and expand their own power. No country does this more consistently, more ruthlessly, and more successfully than the United States.

If you think that this kind of activity by YOUR country makes any OTHER country want to sacrifice ANY of their own desires to appease yours, then YOU, my friend, are in serious need of an education.

You're complaining about the very thing that your own country has been guilty of for most of its' history. Get a grip on reality.


jako

Originally posted by Jeffrey Dahmer
They help the nations they have destroyed, solve the problems they have created.

I guess it's only fair.

You want cynical, there I am

Looks like somebody has built an imaginary home for his cynicism. We help many nations. With the exception of Iraq, a war which I am just as against as anybody, what nations did we destroy? Afghanistan? That country was destroyed long before we went in, all they knew was war. Hopefully that will no longer be the case, and the Afghan people will have a chance for a peaceful existence, we didn't cause their problems but we may have solved them, time will tell. Again I ask, other than Iraq, which nations have we destroyed? And do you have any reference to provide that we only give aid assistance to Iraq? Please give me some examples to back your claim that we only "help the nations they have destroyed, solve the problems they have created".

... but indeed, as I was saying and my point stand. The U.S ain't doing nothing, absolutely nothing good in the world...

And again, you're dead wrong. Your point stands in a steaming pile of.......cynicism.

What did you do for Haïti?

The U.S. Government, through USAID, has been Haiti's largest donor of foreign assistance over the past several years. From 1995 to 2003, USAID provided a total of $810 million in bilateral assistance to Haiti. Over the past decade, we have provided humanitarian relief, built democratic institutions and promoted economic growth.

USAID recently increased its assistance to Haiti from $52 million to $131 million, which will be used to support the reconstruction priorities of the IGOH. USAID funding will be used to create jobs, implement justice reform, increase the capacity of Haiti to hold free and fair elections, improve public health and education, provide humanitarian and disaster assistance, and support IGOH ministries with emergency electricity and sanitation needs, anti-corruption efforts, and port rehabilitation activities.
www.usaid.gov...

For the Tsunami?

The United States will increase its aid pledge from $35 million to $350 million to help victims of the tsunamis in south Asia, CNN has learned.
www.cnn.com...

Add private donors:

From antibiotics to clothes to cash lots of it U.S.-based relief groups report an overwhelming response from donors moved by the devastation of the Indian Ocean tsunami, with more than $200 million raised as of Tuesday. One charity said online pledges were coming in at the rate of $100,000 an hour.
abcnews.go.com...

But we weren't done yet:

Private U.S. Aid to Tsunami Victims Tops $1 Billion
Fact of the Day



Private philanthropic donations from American donors to tsunami victims in Southeast Asia have exceeded $1 billion. U.S. nonprofit and NGO relief organizations have received gifts and disaster relief reserve funds of about $1.059 billion from individuals, foundations and corporations, according to a report compiled by the Center on Philanthropy at Indiana University. More than $900 million of those funds are from cash contributions, and an additional $117 million from in-kind gifts such as medical supplies, food, blankets, and relief services. These figures do not include any aid delivered or offered by the U.S. government.

Source: Center on Philanthropy, Indiana University
(www.philanthropy.iupui.edu)
www.whitehouse.gov...

I wasn't able to find the end numbers, if they have even stopped donating yet.

Now, let's look at Canada's tsunami aid:

April 21, 2005

In the aftermath of the Indonesian tsunami, the Canadian government and ordinary citizens donated nearly $425 million to the relief effort. But as of yet, none of the money has been dispersed, and a man at the center of the controversy, Maurice Strong, is also implicated in the Oil for Food scandal. Canada Free Press reports (via Peter Herberg):

Even as the association of Canadian Maurice Strong with "Koreagate Man" Tungsun Park was coming under world limelight, Sri Lankans were starting to demand answers about where the $425 million promised by Canada to tsunami victims is.
Four months after the tsunami hit, Sri Lankans still don’t have their money. Canadian Prime Minister Paul Martin rushed to the scene for a weeklong photo op. Generous Canadians donated record amounts of money on line.

The Canadian government promised to match dollar for dollar, donations from the public.

But the promised mega millions never arrived.

Compared to Canada, you sent em sugarless candybar.

A sugarless candybar appears to be more than Canada sent.

You say "the U.S ain't doing nothing, absolutely nothing good in the world"?
Feeling a case of the wrongs coming on yet?






[edit on 28-4-2005 by 27jd]

27id:

Again I ask, other than Iraq, which nations have we destroyed? And do you have any reference to provide that we only give aid assistance to Iraq? Please give me some examples to back your claim that we only "help the nations they have destroyed, solve the problems they have created".

Okay.

Iraq. Iran. Chile. Vietnam. Cambodia. Laos. Colombia. Honduras. Nicaragua. Venezuela.

There's ten off the top of my head.

Funded both sides of the Iran-Iraq War. Propped up military dictators in Cambodia and many South American countries. Engineered coups of democratically elected officials in Chile and Iran.

Name me ten countries that the US has helped solely because it was in their best interest, economically or militarily, to do so.

It astounds me to see how people trumpet their ignorance. It's so easy to say your country is the best in the world when you have absolutely no clue about the rest of the world or your own spotty history.

Cheers!

jako

Even with the embargo lifted it's going to be hard for them to break into the market because the Russians are at about the same tech level as them and more willing to sell things without restriction i would think. Plus i wouldn't be surprised if China has indigenous tech that is better than anything Europe has in the near future and won't even want to buy weapons from them.

Hmm. Not entirely in agreement with this part of your post. Europe weapons tech is quite clearly way ahead of China and arguably better than current Russian tech. Not getting into details, but for example the UK alone produces some of the most successful Tank designs in the world and has an excellent Aerospace capability. Then just add in the German tanks and subs......it all starts to get pretty good and alot better than what China/Russia can do.

They may well in the mid range future copy our tech, but then they will always be behind.

Originally posted by Jakomo
Okay.

Iraq. Iran. Chile. Vietnam. Cambodia. Laos. Colombia. Honduras. Nicaragua. Venezuela.

So where are the references I requested? Show me how we destroyed those nations. Don't just list any nation you can think of that doesn't have "warm" relations with the U.S. as nations we have destroyed.

Funded both sides of the Iran-Iraq War. Propped up military dictators in Cambodia and many South American countries. Engineered coups of democratically elected officials in Chile and Iran.

And we're the only country that has ever meddled behind the scenes in the affairs of others? Is that what you're saying? Please say it is so you're position can be exposed for the purely anti-American BS that it is.

Name me ten countries that the US has helped solely because it was in their best interest, economically or militarily, to do so.

You mean not solely because it was in their best interest, economically or militarily, to do so, don't you?

It astounds me to see how people trumpet their ignorance.

Indeed. And your trumpet is the loudest.

It's so easy to say your country is the best in the world when you have absolutely no clue about the rest of the world or your own spotty history.

I never once said my country was the best in the world. Please show me where I did. I was answering a poster who said the U.S. does absolutely nothing good whatsoever in the world, nothing. Which is BS. I'm not pro-Bush, I can't stand him. I'm not saying the U.S. government is not involved in many shady dealings all over the world. But we're not the only ones, and we do good things as well. To say otherwise is just plain wrong. And by the way, my family is from Canada, I'm the first born in the U.S. So don't paint me to be an ignorant super patriot who thinks America is the center of the universe. I just find middle ground, unlike most of you one-dimensional people who go out of your way to tow your liberal/conservative, anti-America/pro-America lines. I think for myself.

Cheers!






[edit on 28-4-2005 by 27jd]

THe point is that Britain would have been hard pressed to escape from the sea, that would be the only way, and to get back to England, build up a large force, and try to come back to the US to fight us again. They tried fighting us again in 1812, but they didn't prevail in that fight. The French soldiers were not needed. Where as American Soldiers were needed in both WWI and WWII. But again, this is neither here nor there. America isn't asking France and Germany to bend over and let us put it where it don't belong. We just would appreciate it if our so called friends didn't arm our enemies with more advanced weapons. Is that really too much to ask? Name 10 countries that America has helped? How about all of Europe with maybe an exception with the British. How quickly we forget the 1940's - 1990. How about Eastern Germany. Don't you remember what America did when Russia was going to cut off the food supply? How about Ethiopia, how about all the nations that were devestated by the tsunami. How about every nation in the world by being the only super power in history that fights for the individuals rights in each nation instead of controlling everyone. Think about how good you have it if you are from another country. You can write whatever you want to about how crappy America is and there is no threat of death pending because of what you said. And you can do this all publicly. Name one superpower EVER to do such a thing? YOU CANT.

Originally posted by Ryanp5555
Name 10 countries that America has helped? How about all of Europe with maybe an exception with the British. How quickly we forget the 1940's - 1990. How about Eastern Germany. Don't you remember what America did when Russia was going to cut off the food supply? How about Ethiopia, how about all the nations that were devestated by the tsunami. How about every nation in the world by being the only super power in history that fights for the individuals rights in each nation instead of controlling everyone. Think about how good you have it if you are from another country. You can write whatever you want to about how crappy America is and there is no threat of death pending because of what you said. And you can do this all publicly. Name one superpower EVER to do such a thing? YOU CANT.

Don't bother giving Jakko any examples of the U.S. doing good in the world, it's just a waste of time. He will just deny it and say it never happened. He believes the U.S. did nothing to help in WWII, etc. It's like trying to convince the grand dragon of the KKK that black people have done alot of good things for the world. He's just not interested in anything other than hating the U.S. At least that's what I gather from his posts. I may be wrong.


[edit on 28-4-2005 by 27jd]

Originally posted by LA_Maximus
Maybe we outta ban Mercedies-Benzs from being shipped here.

Why? To put more Americans out of work?

Made in America

I know its made in America Joe, but the money for that little tin-can goes back to Germany. Its their way of getting around trade barriers, but thats another thread.


Max

well if we stopped selling foreign cars, especially those from Germany, we could create more American car factories, as the demand would be up for them.

Originally posted by Jakomo
LA Maximus:



You are living on a totally different planet than the rest of us.

...

If you think that this kind of activity by YOUR country makes any OTHER country want to sacrifice ANY of their own desires to appease yours, then YOU, my friend, are in serious need of an education.

Jako: you are absolutely right. I've seen LA on other topics, and it's always the same pattern. It's absolutely useless to try to tell him something, he never listens to any facts and he never will. I think he has only one opinion, and he is not able to change it. It's just a waste of time to answer his posts. My opinion is: just ignore him furtherway, he makes no sense at all. There is one Mod at this board whose signature reads: Never try to teach someone who doesn't want to learn (or similar). I couldn't find better words (but very bad ones I don't want to use because of etiquette.) I wouldn't go so far to call him a friend like you did, but a serious case of narrow-mindedness, and anyone who reads his post should be aware of this. Go on, discuss, but do it anywhere serious, please don't give him the satisfaction to be recognized as a seriously interested person. He is not. Always giving the same statements he is - I repeat it because redundance is very important - just unable and unwilling to learn, to listen, to argue and to think about what he is saying. Very poor guy, I feel sorry for him because he doesn't know anything about the world. Everyone else: please discuss the topic anywhere else, it's unbearable here. Jako: greetings to an educated and not too much brainwashed mind like I consider myself to be one, don't get too emotional about people like this, there are more beautiful things in life!

[edit on 28-4-2005 by new_falcon_XXI]

and you couldn't say that in a U2U? instead you felt like you had to talk crap about him. This just shows you had no other defense against his words so you resorted to a personal attack. There is an old saying that I heard in school once, "when a person attacks someone personally in a debate that means they have lost."