How the British Air Force loved Stalin

During the Second World War, among the Allied troops there was a completely inexplicable love for the USSR and the Soviet leader Joseph Stalin in our time. One of these manifestations was the portraits of Stalin on the planes of the British Air Force.



The photo shows the British Air Force Avro Lancaster, which shows a ballot paper and a list of several candidates: the well-known Prime Minister of Great Britain Winston Churchill, Australian Prime Minister John Curtin, Prime Minister of the Union of South Africa Ian Smuts, Indian politician Mahatma Gandhi and, of course, Joseph Stalin. Right there, in the picture, there was a call to vote for the Soviet leader, as he was called in the West, "Uncle Joe".

Most likely, the bomber was from the 463rd Australian Air Force Squadron. Why from there? Because it was there that Joseph Stalin enjoyed some kind of wild popularity among the pilots. It is reliably known that on three aircraft of this squadron there were pictures or inscriptions mentioning the leader of the USSR. There may have been other cars, but no information about this has survived.



What do you, my friends, think about this curious fact?)))

a reply to: RussianTroll

Stalin was our big ally. Without him taking on the Nazis would have been almost impossible. Our airmen knew we could take on the Germans in the air and at sea and thoroughly beat them which we did, but doing the ground work on our own was always going to be impossible once France had fallen. Just a pure numbers game. Once Russia came on side and took it to the Germans there was real hope that the Nazis could be beaten on the ground too. The British Empire back then combined with what was effectively the Russian Empire was a winning formula. That pilot knew it

originally posted by: RussianTroll
During the Second World War, among the Allied troops there was a completely inexplicable love for the USSR and the Soviet leader Joseph Stalin in our time. One of these manifestations was the portraits of Stalin on the planes of the British Air Force.

The photo shows the British Air Force Avro Lancaster, which shows a ballot paper and a list of several candidates: the well-known Prime Minister of Great Britain Winston Churchill, Australian Prime Minister John Curtin, Prime Minister of the Union of South Africa Ian Smuts, Indian politician Mahatma Gandhi and, of course, Joseph Stalin. Right there, in the picture, there was a call to vote for the Soviet leader, as he was called in the West, "Uncle Joe".

Most likely, the bomber was from the 463rd Australian Air Force Squadron. Why from there? Because it was there that Joseph Stalin enjoyed some kind of wild popularity among the pilots. It is reliably known that on three aircraft of this squadron there were pictures or inscriptions mentioning the leader of the USSR. There may have been other cars, but no information about this has survived.

What do you, my friends, think about this curious fact?)))

because despite what you as an american have been brought up believing it was the Russians that broke the German army leading to victory over Germany it was not the americans who joined the war at the end once Russia had done the hard work

originally posted by: seethetruth

because despite what you as an american have been brought up believing it was the Russians that broke the German army leading to victory over Germany it was not the americans who joined the war at the end once Russia had done the hard work

My smiling friend, I'm just Russian from Russia, not an American)))

originally posted by: RussianTroll

originally posted by: seethetruth

because despite what you as an american have been brought up believing it was the Russians that broke the German army leading to victory over Germany it was not the americans who joined the war at the end once Russia had done the hard work

My smiling friend, I'm just Russian from Russia, not an American)))

i will let you off then lol

not been on here for ages i cant remember hoe to post a topic

a reply to: seethetruth

I wouldnt say the Russians broke the German back. The reality is the Russians threw everything they had and then some at the Germans, it stopped the Germans hard. As a result the lightning war the Germans typically fought turned into a quagmire, which is what the Russians excel in. That put the Germans on the ropes so to speak, the British and Americans landing in Italy caused the Germans to lose an entire army, and industrial capacity (Italy). This further strained the war machine, then the Industrial bombing and whole sale slaughter of cities destroyed their manufacturing capacity. If you can't build guns, tanks, planes, you can't win a war; and if you can't keep your civilization going aka your cities, you cant maintain a government. Once Normandy came, it was the knock out blow to an enemy that had already endured multiple gut shots.

I will give the Russians credit, They traded punches with Germany like a 12 year fighting Tyson. They kept getting back up over and over and over, which was by itself incredible when they were getting the # kicked out of them. Keep in mind Russia lost over half their male population during WW2, that shows how many men stood up and fought. It was absolutely incredible how hard they fought, sometimes using knives against machine guns. I say this to acknowledge their accomplishments. The reality is Russia took a massive blow from Germany, they delivered massive blows back, it was the combined effort of the Russian ground, American and British Air, and eventually the American, British, and free french armies that lead to to victory. Without Russia the war would have dragged out, they could have surrendered at anytime, but they didn't. Had they surrendered, Italy and Normandy would not have been possible, as the reality is Germany was great as using puppet state armies as cannon fodder, and the Russians had alot of cannon fodder to be used. Luckily it was used against the germans and not for the germans. Had the Russians given up, Germany would have eventually gotten the bomb, taken Britian, and my guess is the USA would have sued for peace, giving Germany Europe, Russia, and Africa, Australia, India, and New Zealand and Japan the rest of the Pacific and South East Asia.

Camain

I would say the Russian Winter had a lot to do with it. It seems to be the single greatest defense Russia has had for would be conquerors. It's really hard to fight a war in blizzard conditions and fighting hunkered down forces in slow frozen battle of attrition. Of course if supply lines get cut, then there is no way to fight at all.

a reply to: themessengernevermatters

Smart people look for the reasons for failure in themselves, and stupid people look for external factors.

Russia were allies with the West from 1941 onwards. Before 1941 the Russians were allied to Nazi Germany and were co-invaders of Poland and invaded other countries, such as the Baltic states.

When the Nazis and the Russians fell out it was a case of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend". Much military aid was transported to Russia in the hazardous Arctic convoys and the RAF used Russia for cover of convoys and as a spring-board for raids e.g. using Lancaster bombers to strike Tirpiz in Operation Paravane.

This may help the OP...

Lancaster and Stalin art

An Avro Lancaster bomber aircraft of 463 Squadron RAAF, with nose art depicting "Uncle Joe" (a reference to Joseph Stalin), below the cockpit. The Lancaster nose art, which decorated nearly all RAAF heavy bombers, was painted by squadron ground staff at Waddington airfield, Britain.

a reply to: paraphi

Your comment has a full set of clichés of modern Western propaganda. A small wish - study history not by propaganda publications in the media, but by archival documents. I do this.

originally posted by: paraphi
..

Lancaster and Stalin art

An Avro Lancaster bomber aircraft of 463 Squadron RAAF, with nose art depicting "Uncle Joe" (a reference to Joseph Stalin), below the cockpit. The Lancaster nose art, which decorated nearly all RAAF heavy bombers, was painted by squadron ground staff at Waddington airfield, Britain.

Probably the ground personnel consisted of Petrov and Boshirov)))

a reply to: RussianTroll

It's a historical fact that the Russians and Nazis were big mates and conspired together the invade and enslave many European nations, starting with Poland. Have I touched a raw nerve?

Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact

Additionally, the Russians were beneficiaries of large volumes of aid which came on the Arctic convoys, something the Russians have acknowledged because they gave medals to some of the participants.

a reply to: RussianTroll

They used Stalin on their aircraft, yes, but they also used demons, devils, pirates, pretty girls, animals, mythical creatures, and more. Citing two examples, both RAAF and not RAF, doesn't know a complete love for the man as your title suggests.

In reality, it came from the squadron codes for the aircraft. Simple as that.

Lancaster Mk.III serial number ED611 squadron code «JO-U» of course was named «Uncle Joe».

Another «Stalinist» Lancaster – aircraft serial number NE133 squadron code «JO-X». Its name «Xtra» was also emphasized by artwork. The inscription says «Vote for Joe»...

Highlights for Warspot: uncle Joe’s nephews from Australia

originally posted by: paraphi
a reply to: RussianTroll

It's a historical fact that the Russians and Nazis were big mates and conspired together the invade and enslave many European nations, starting with Poland. Have I touched a raw nerve?

Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact

Additionally, the Russians were beneficiaries of large volumes of aid which came on the Arctic convoys, something the Russians have acknowledged because they gave medals to some of the participants.

And the even greater historical fact is that the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact of 1939 was the most recent of the pacts. which Germany has concluded with Western countries.

Munich Agreement

As a result of these treaties, Germany occupied Czechoslovakia and Austria. By the way, Czechoslovakia, together with Nazi Germany, was occupied by Poland, occupying the northern provinces of the country.

Poland was divided according to the "Curzon Line" proposed by British Prime Minister Curzon. So with the knowledge and at the suggestion of Britain. And this is a historical fact.

Russia this year has declassified the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact and all secret protocols to it. You can study these historical documents, they are in the public domain.

originally posted by: cmdrkeenkid
a reply to: RussianTroll

They used Stalin on their aircraft, yes, but they also used demons, devils, pirates, pretty girls, animals, mythical creatures, and more. Citing two examples, both RAAF and not RAF, doesn't know a complete love for the man as your title suggests.

In reality, it came from the squadron codes for the aircraft. Simple as that.

Lancaster Mk.III serial number ED611 squadron code «JO-U» of course was named «Uncle Joe».

Another «Stalinist» Lancaster – aircraft serial number NE133 squadron code «JO-X». Its name «Xtra» was also emphasized by artwork. The inscription says «Vote for Joe»...

Highlights for Warspot: uncle Joe’s nephews from Australia

Of course, the pilots used both devils and demons. and pirates and beautiful girls. But they did not offer to vote for them from the list of prime ministers of the British colonies)))

a reply to: RussianTroll

Great job working around the point that the nose art of two RAAF planes with an easy explanation behind it do not show "love for the USSR and the Soviet leader Joseph Stalin" in the RAF.

originally posted by: camain


I wouldnt say the Russians broke the German back.

Winston Churchill would and did.

The relationship between the British and the Russians between 1939 and the founding of NATO is fascinating.

Before the war, pretty much all the British political establishment loathed the USSR. It was fashionable to flirt with communism but the Spanish Civil War made it clear to the British left that Stalinism was a different, nastier thing altogether.

Once the USSR was dragged into the war, most of the Brits did a quick 180. The Conservatives who had cheered for Mr Hitler in the 1930s were cheering for Uncle Joe. Even Churchill softened towards him. Significantly, most of the left still mistrusted him.

Immediately after the war, Churchill - no longer Prime Minister - was in favour of including Russia in the reconstruction of Europe and bringing them into the Marshall Plan. Ernest Bevin, the foreign minister and socialist to the bone, refused to even consider it and convinced Truman's government to take a hard line as well. Bevin saw Stalin as the biggest threat to world peace: starting with France, he engineered a series of treaties that led to the creation of NATO. Churchill gave his speech at Fulton and the rest is history.

originally posted by: themessengernevermatters
I would say the Russian Winter had a lot to do with it. It seems to be the single greatest defense Russia has had for would be conquerors. It's really hard to fight a war in blizzard conditions and fighting hunkered down forces in slow frozen battle of attrition. Of course if supply lines get cut, then there is no way to fight at all.

Russian winter had something to do with it sure, Yet certain other factors are overlooked.

Russia is the biggest nation on Planet Earth. It's resources make that of Germany, indeed most places appear like a mouse. Once those immense resources in oil, coal, steel, etc were put into a war footaing, then Germany was effectively doomed. They couldn't keep up.

Even when the Germans managed to get output rolling, there was noweher to shift production to as Germany is a small place. Industry was levelled, all the time while Russia moved its factories east to the Urals well out of danger from German war effort. To this day much industry that was moved sits in the Urals east including my favorite watch at Crisitopol the amazing Vostok, but here I'm going off topic.

Here we wee the limit of the German war machine. Russia could simply remove their factories from the Nazis efforts. The Germans were amazingly backwards when it came to technology.

They never managed to manufacture a decent long distance bomber capable of taking it to the Urals with a decent payload. Quite incredible really.

Add to this lack of basic understanding of military technology the German tank. Incredible pieces of junk being honest and realistic about it. Very light, very easy to knock out with light plating, weak guns too, armour that was effectively useless. In addition give them a little bad weather and they just froze up. Things got better by '44 with the introduction of the Tiger, yet their production rates were staggeringly slow, far too low to make any impact on defending the Reich from the Soviet onslaught.

Their artillery technology if you can call it technology was effectively based on medieval principles. Right up to the end of the war the Germans artillery was unbelievably inaccurate, they couldn't hit the bullseye with one thousand attempts. There was no way of aiming their artillery, it was just lob it in the gun, fire and hope for the best.

Another spectacular nonsense carried out by the (Nazi) Germans was the ability to turn an over run people against them. Now let's go back to 1914............... So Germany makes good progress through Eastern Europe, indeed in that war it defeats Russia and effectively created the circumstances for the Moscow elite we see today. Now as the Germans rolled through Eastern Europe in WW1 the locals came out, thanked the Germans for taking over their lands, helped supply the German forces with. their own food and supplies. Yes the locals supported the German advance and guess who those locals were? Eastern European Jews maybe ten million actively supported the Germans in their advance as they saw them as saviours from the suppression they lived under in the Pale of Settlement. The Jewish villagers and other minorities fed the German advance and waved them through blessing the armies as they passed, heck they even spoke effectively the same language certainly understandable to the invaders. Many Jewish in Poland, Belarus, Ukraine, Baltics, Russia actually came out waving friendship flags at the Nazis and handing them food and trying to cuddle them as they remembered how the Germans in WW1 were incredibly kind and generous and treated them so well initially freeing them from the Pale.

Then we get the Nazis in WW2, well they didn't exactly make themselves appear as saviours in the east from day one. More like savage beasts on a war of racial and religious murder. They really upset the locals when they invaded the east and that added to the enemies they faced.

Many things went against the Nazi invasion of eastern Europe, add to this the fact that the Germans were fighting a war based on an evil that was wrong. As the war continued more and more German conscripts saw through the brain washing of the Nazis and that lack of belief in their states ambitions also added to their eventual defeat.

Add to all this the fact that the German military, along with their home population was completely off their heads on crystal meth pushed on them as a wonder drug called Pirvitin. Initially it worked wonders and gave them the name Blitzkrieg due to their soldiers being able to fight for days with no sleep and advance with incredible 'speed' (hehe pun maybe intended) yet when the supplies ran out............. Which they certainly did as the war progressed.................. We have millions of German drug addicts stuck in temperatures of minus double digits going cold turkey ate the same time starving to death and running out of ammunition. Some of the worst Nazi committed atrocities occured when the crystal meth supplies dried up.

How to get the people of the east not on side big style and in the mood for a little vengeance maybe?

From every angle the Nazis played it badly and even with a knockout punch inflicted on the east in 1941 they still suffered total defeat a few years down the line.

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter

Add to all this the fact that the German military, along with their home population was completely off their heads on crystal meth pushed on them as a wonder drug called Pirvitin. Initially it worked wonders and gave them the name Blitzkrieg due to their soldiers being able to fight for days with no sleep and advance with incredible 'speed' (hehe pun maybe intended) yet when the supplies ran out............. Which they certainly did as the war progressed.................. We have millions of German drug addicts stuck in temperatures of minus double digits going cold turkey ate the same time starving to death and running out of ammunition. Some of the worst Nazi committed atrocities occured when the crystal meth supplies dried up.

Interesting. Nazi govt using chemical warfare on their own people.

a reply to: RussianTroll

A terrific find. From the onset of Operation Barbarossa to the defeat of Hitler's Germany, Churchill saw the overlapping interests among the U.S., U.K. and the Soviet Union.

IMO, there is significant if unplanned symbolism in the artwork. Moreover, one of Churchill's counterpoints to Stalin's demand for a second front was the air war over Germany.

Have you read Jonathan Dimbleby's book that covers Barbarossa from the outset to December 1941? My only complaint against the author's work is that perhaps he portrays Churchill's views towards the Soviet Union, before Barbarossa, in too warm alight. But Churchill's argument to Stalin that Bomber Command's efforts over Germany ensured that the Soviets aren't fighting Germany by themselves is well covered.