Did the United States Accomplish Its Mission in Afghanistan - Was It Worth The Sacrifices?.

originally posted by: MykeNukem
a reply to: carewemust

If anything it will be worse than ever now.

I've never seen the States do anything like this before, just pull up and leave without a good exit strategy and follow-up plan.

They used 9/11 as an excuse for a lot of foreign intervention and policies, just an excuse.

Should have just upgraded it to a glass parking lot back in 2001.

Almost gave a star.

Then read that last line.

originally posted by: Salander
a reply to: Thoughtcrime

Your comments come across as rather desperate.

Air Guard pilots don't get carrier qualified. They are not Navy pilots.

Many members of the Bush Crime Family snorted their share of coc aine--safe bet.

Yeah…not seeing the “desperate” part there fella. Maybe ‘whataboutism’, but not depseration.

I’m well aware that Air National Guard pilots don’t get carrier qualified. I didn’t say they did. I said the Navy pilots (you know, they guys who actually ARE carrier qualified) who flew in Afghanistan would disagree with you. Do keep up.

originally posted by: Nunyabizisit

originally posted by: MykeNukem
a reply to: carewemust

If anything it will be worse than ever now.

I've never seen the States do anything like this before, just pull up and leave without a good exit strategy and follow-up plan.

They used 9/11 as an excuse for a lot of foreign intervention and policies, just an excuse.

Should have just upgraded it to a glass parking lot back in 2001.

Almost gave a star.

Then read that last line.

Keep your star.

I call it how I see it.

a reply to: bastion

Maybe, maybe not. The original question in the OP was whether American efforts in Afghanistan —not the Maghreb or Yemen—were a failure.

Short of invading Saudi Arabia, there’s little we can do to stop their citizens from funding terrorists; much of the funding (other than that from the hundreds of Saudi princes) comes from Saudi citizens’ donations from around the world.

I don’t think you and I are too far apart on this issue though.

PS: Yeah—never DID understand why anyone thought Pakistan would be a good ally. Where was Bin Laden hiding for years?

originally posted by: MykeNukem

originally posted by: Nunyabizisit

originally posted by: MykeNukem
a reply to: carewemust

If anything it will be worse than ever now.

I've never seen the States do anything like this before, just pull up and leave without a good exit strategy and follow-up plan.

They used 9/11 as an excuse for a lot of foreign intervention and policies, just an excuse.

Should have just upgraded it to a glass parking lot back in 2001.

Almost gave a star.

Then read that last line.

Keep your star.

I call it how I see it.

Why was that so funny?

I spit coffee.

originally posted by: Nunyabizisit

originally posted by: MykeNukem
a reply to: carewemust

If anything it will be worse than ever now.

I've never seen the States do anything like this before, just pull up and leave without a good exit strategy and follow-up plan.

They used 9/11 as an excuse for a lot of foreign intervention and policies, just an excuse.

Should have just upgraded it to a glass parking lot back in 2001.

Almost gave a star.

Then read that last line.

I gave you a star for this.

I completely agree.

originally posted by: MykeNukem

originally posted by: Nunyabizisit

originally posted by: MykeNukem
a reply to: carewemust

If anything it will be worse than ever now.

I've never seen the States do anything like this before, just pull up and leave without a good exit strategy and follow-up plan.

They used 9/11 as an excuse for a lot of foreign intervention and policies, just an excuse.

Should have just upgraded it to a glass parking lot back in 2001.

Almost gave a star.

Then read that last line.

I gave you a star for this.

I completely agree.

Now I'm confused.

But having fun.

Stars for everyone!

This round is on me.

originally posted by: Nunyabizisit

originally posted by: bastion
a reply to: Nunyabizisit

There is no justification for what Biden has done. Why do you think I'm trying to make excuses for him?

I actually don't.

But you keep posting things that could be taken that way and I'm not letting anything slide right now.

Facing coordinated effort by some who ARE desperately trying to defend joe.

They are having a little success elsewhere.

But none here.

Fair do's - I don't read any US press so have no idea what talking points they're using but to be clear: I've been posting since he announced his election run that I think Biden has a brain injury and touch of dementia fom my own experience of having a TBI and relavtives who had dementia. I've said how his family and democrat party are culpable in failing to pull him from his election run despite obvious ill health.

In his election run I posted how he had no policies other than 'I'm not Trump' and was rightfully mocked worldwide. I said how as much as I dislike Trump, I'd vote for him over Biden as at least he stands for something and he seems the right person to get the US out of the pandemic economic slump which is the most

I've posted since he took power that he's slept on the issue of Afghanistan, had no plan and had ignored all his advisors by setting a gimmick withdrawl date of 9/11 and anyone who has passing knowledge of Afghan history knows spring/summer is when major offensives are launched and Winter is the time to evacuate. He was deluded enough that he thought it would go smoothly, be a functioning democracy and would be a fitting tribure to those who lost their lives. Instead he turned it into an embarassment and insult to troops and the families of 9/11 victims.

More recently I've posted about how he can't blame everything on Trump as he did nothing when he was VP andchose to leave behind billions in equipment and fail to even notify the Afghan commander of Bagram airbase that the US fled in the middle of the night - leaving the base unsecured and looted before the commander turned up for work in the morning to find it deserted.

More recently still I've posted about how he's tied the hands of US forces and commanders by preventing them from leaving the airbase and rescuing civillians which is the most important role a the military play and most join the armed forces to risk and sacrifice their lives to save others.

I don't mean to deflect from how much of a balls-up he's made by posting about the history of Afghanistan or the war there - I just find it the most interesting and influential history of any country in the world and know how poor MSM coverage of foreign affairs is in the US is and how big a role CENTCOM play in censoring wars and issuing pro war propaganda.

a reply to: bastion


I understand. And understood.

Tried to limit my responses to certain statements and go a little easier than on some others.

Actually had me a little confused for a bit as I am well aware of who you are from lurking days and previous conversations.

Hadn't considered the notion that you might not be getting the same all out propaganda effort there and that your statements may have been completely unrelated.

We do have a few from outside the U.S. vigorously participating in the propaganda here.



It's never personal though, even if the above misunderstanding didn't happen.

I go hard against friends when we disagree on something important (like when someone proposes violence of some sort)

But it's always limited to just what we disagree on, friend or foe.

a reply to: carewemust

From a overseas perspective and there s positivies and negatives to all politics then I'd class the Afghan adventure as pretty much a mission accomplished

Sacrifrices? Well it's war and after 9/11 there was always going to be a military response of some sort. For the individual death it's a horrible terrible unimagineable painful episode. Totally horrendous.

When folk join a military non conscript force of essentially free choice (yeah I know bout the advertisement mind control we have it here in the UK "make something of yourself, see the world, be somebody" lol targeting confused pubescent young kids) but they really could go ride the tractor, join the Police, do some factory work, paint your houses, fry your chips, but they are intent on going into an occupation where the essential work shift is to kill, kill, kill again. It's war and they are the gun fodder.

The couple of thousand of the deaths was it worth it? No death is worth anything.

Yet this comes from over the Pond as an assessment and in comparison with the rest of the Earth.

In twenty years the Yanks military has taken it to the trouble spots and fought those that would wish to inflict horrendous horrors on the American people and kept those same Jihadis contained in other Continents largely south Asia and all the time the USA mainland has been kept largely completely free of Islamic terror. Your children and wives have been protected by your military taking on the crazies overseas

Ok compare that to the countless attacks here in Europe or other parts of the Middle East. The Jihadi attacks have been a regular event and cost us dear all the time you Yanks have been largely unscathed.

Plus having Yanks entrenched in the region has probably stopped other local wars that might have happened from not taking place wit the fear of the USA being so close and capable of intervening and spreading the War on Terror.

On that basis Afghanistan has been a success in taking the enemy on in their own backyard and dragging all the wannabe Jihadi's from other countries onto a playing field far from your families and keeping them pretty much unscathed.

Worth the sacrifice to keep the USA safe? I don't know, but at one hundred military dead per year that is open to question.

Let's be honest and realistic about. It's hardly the Battle of the Somme where Britain lost 20,000 dead on the first day.

Every death is a tragedy yet over a 20 year period it has kept the Americans at home pretty much safe

A success?

Yes

a reply to: ufoorbhunter

“Plus having Yanks entrenched in the region has probably stopped other local wars that might have happened from not taking place wit the fear of the USA being so close and capable of intervening and spreading the War on Terror.”




Pretty sure that must’ve entered the mind of Iran’s leadership, with our forces just over the border

a reply to: bastion

I ask this in all respect: You wouldn’t be related to a young man in the SAS killed in Afghanistan, sometime in 2001, would you?

a reply to: Thoughtcrime

Agreed with all that, especially the not being far apart on the issue. It was pretty much a 100% success in wiping out Al Qu'eda in Afghanistan. They're likely to try rebuilding there now but it will take several years before they have anything like the ability they had in 2001.

Aye the West's hands are tied on Saudi. A milli tary cannot function without oil. In the original OPEC deals the West agreed not to interfere with Wahabism and Salafism as long as Saudi continued to sell us oil (IIRC Jimmy Carter made the agreement).

Pakistan was an odd one - the border region with Afghanistan is largely lawless and many of the ISI generals are uncles of Al-qu'eda and Taliban leaders. The Pakistan Army and ISI helped Sheikh Omar Saeed (guy who wired $100,000 to Mohammed Ata to do 9/11) set up a new group called Al Farkan in Peshwar in return for not revealing their assistance.

They also had two front organisations called "Chand Group" and "Multi Group" who offered to make nuclear weapons for the Taliban and Al Qu'eda to 'help the cause' via the pakistan nuclear physicist, Sultan Bashiruddin Mahmoud's, charity Ummah Tameer-e-Nau. Mahmoud was questioned by the US for his involvement in 9/11.

General Musharraf told the US ambassador, Wendy Chamberlain he would not extradite him to the US and the US responded by never requesting his extradition.

originally posted by: Thoughtcrime
a reply to: bastion

I ask this in all respect: You wouldn’t be related to a young man in the SAS killed in Afghanistan, sometime in 2001, would you?

Not related to but a childhood best friend was killed in Helmand province in Dec 2001. SF had been operating from there since early 2001 as there was chatter that a big attack was planned on the US but no one knew where or when.

DP

originally posted by: Thoughtcrime
a reply to: ufoorbhunter

“Plus having Yanks entrenched in the region has probably stopped other local wars that might have happened from not taking place wit the fear of the USA being so close and capable of intervening and spreading the War on Terror.”

Pretty sure that must’ve entered the mind of Iran’s leadership, with our forces just over the border

Spot on thinking just the same

a reply to: bastion

I am curious...how do you know what the CIA does or does not do? I do not believe you.

originally posted by: alexandrae
a reply to: bastion

I am curious...how do you know what the CIA does or does not do? I do not believe you.

They're quotes from former CIA Director Gen Michael Hayden in the documentary I posted on page 2. He starts talking about why he chose to ignore UK advice and jeapordise UK national security around the 41 min mark.

According to this ATS post: www.abovetopsecret.com... (Kudos to ETMN),

Joe Biden's promise to totally remake and transform America, involves (in part) equipping militants, like his "brother" Barack Obama did, with ISIS.

a reply to: Thoughtcrime

There are a few honest Navy pilots in the ranks, always have been.

They know we invaded those countries under fraud.

originally posted by: Salander
a reply to: Thoughtcrime

There are a few honest Navy pilots in the ranks, always have been.

They know we invaded those countries under fraud.

Did the pilots pretend to be civilian planes and then crash into their biggest buildings?