"Ancient Instructions for us all to do in these dark times. A message to all God loving people"

Agree 100% Regardless of faith we are in hurting spiritual shape. It's starting to seep into every aspect of society and personal life...
a reply to: Raggedyman

a reply to: SwampFox999

So you are a pagan, good for you, I don’t know much about paganism, can’t really comment. Pretty sure pagans are mostly good people, have some stuff in their cupboards I don’t doubt

Irrespective, you don’t understand christianity, you are suggesting every rule in the Old Testament and New must be obeyed by Christians and that’s just silly, sorry, no disrespect but that’s just dumb, it’s illogical and absurd.

How do you figure that?

originally posted by: Iamonlyhuman
a reply to: Hecate666

Obviously, this post was not meant for you. Why did you take the time to respond to it just to disrespect it? The below quote - emphasis mine.

originally posted by: TheInfiniteFantastic

With all you beautiful God loving people and anyone else who is willing to receive this wonderful message.

For the same reason Christians chime in on atheist or non Christian threads that were obviously not meant for them. It's part and parcel of what ATS is. As members we can give our opinion in any thread, whether or not it was aimed at our group, which is as it should be in my opinion.

a reply to: Raggedyman

Jesus should of created his own book then. Not a smart move on his part...

Also, if they only important part of the bible is to love others, then why do we need the bible at all?

a reply to: CptGreenTea

It’s called the New Testament, it’s self explanatory, just have to read it
As for why, it helps explain detail but, for the most part, all it teaches is love

Seems like you are confused?

originally posted by: SwampFox999
Ha, so can I. I'm a pagan of sorts. Sometimes I opt for no cloth at all. Lol yes those are Jewish law. But as a Christian they are supposed to be following them. It's in the bible gotta follow it. Just like the Catholics that only go to church on Sunday, holidays and eat fish Friday's. Then call it good. They are ignoring the whole bevy of other holy days where one isnt supposed to eat this or that or do this or that. Confession should be daily. As is a crap ton of other things.
And forgive me, my post wasnt directed at you in particular. In my area I see a lot of fake Christians. And was thinking about that the other day. And how no one of any religion that I can think of REALLY follows the minutia of their chosen faiths.

a reply to: Raggedyman

There are a lot of nuances to the Christian faith that are not easy to understand when you are not a practicing Christian. I won't try to explain the whole law and grace doctrine to you. I'll leave that to someone like Disraeli who has the patience.

Suffice it to say the reason Christians say they are not beholden to old testament law is they believe Jesus Christ is the perfect fulfillment of that law. So to be "in Christ" is the fulfillment of God's law through grace. It's not quite that simple, but in a sense it is too. Books have been written on this topic alone. Understanding it takes much study.

a reply to: Hecate666

You why don't you join the club and become a dissenter and destroy it from within. You know a spy?

Im a recovering catholic. My grandfather a deacon, I went went to sunday type school 3 times a week until my teenage years. So I might understand a thing or two about Catholicism. I know it's a different enough faith than Christianity. I wouldnt mind learning a thing or two either.(not sarcasm, I could see it being taken as such) It does seem a lot more a personal direct relationship to the creator the Catholics have. As to what I do have knowledge of the amish, are one sect I know of that follows much closer than others to the bible's word, all of it. In Catholicism there is numerous sects that's would be much closer to the literal word of the bible than most too.
Well I figure that because from what I understand of the bible as pieced together during the 500s then further modified. States clearly as have numerous religious leaders throughout history that the word of the bible must be adhered to gain access to heaven. Not a personal attack against you or your particular church. Just an observation from history. Not a suggestion if mine. If your a Christian I am probably the last one you should take suggestions from on faith lol.

a reply to: Raggedyman

I pick up what your putting down. Any particularly good books on the subject. It does sound interesting. Faith and religion are pretty interesting to me. I'm just lately trying to learn a bit more than passing info on this or that(aside from my personal religious journey) a reply to: Klassified

originally posted by: Waterglass
a reply to: Hecate666

You why don't you join the club and become a dissenter and destroy it from within. You know a spy?

Stirring the pot, Waterglass?

a reply to: SwampFox999
Honestly, if you want to understand it in depth, start by reading Paul's epistle to the Roman's, especially chapters 7 and 8, but I recommend the whole epistle to get a fuller understanding. If you are a practicing pagan, you'll see more than just Christianity in that epistle. You might find it quite interesting indeed.

ETA: Also go to Disraeli's account and peruse his thread list. In my opinion, he has done both Christians and non-Christians a service on ATS by expounding on the bible and the Christian faith in detail over the years.

a reply to: SwampFox999

Be sufficient to say, the bible teaches that to be a Christian, adherents must love others as Jesus loved others. Followers of Christ, should adhere to the bibles teaching on love
“Romans, Love Fulfills the Law. 8 Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for whoever loves others has fulfilled the law.”

As for your understanding that the bible was pieced together, further modified, some truth, some error in your comments
I don’t bother defending the bible, it is good for teaching but, it’s about loving others not reading a book or adhering to rules just to get into a heaven.
The pillar and foundation of the truth
“Timothy 3:15-if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God's household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth”.
True Christians are discerned by the fruit of the Spirit, not words, rules or how much bible they read


As for the Amish, I have a Mennonite faith, similar to the Amish but I have a car, motor bike, big screen tv, PlayStation and can shave if I so desire

originally posted by: Klassified
Suffice it to say the reason Christians say they are not beholden to old testament law is they believe Jesus Christ is the perfect fulfillment of that law. So to be "in Christ" is the fulfillment of God's law through grace. It's not quite that simple...

Actually Klass, I think it is that simple

originally posted by: FinallyAwake
If he wants everyone to worship him and follow his rules.

They got that wrong,. It's workship not worship...

originally posted by: Raggedyman

originally posted by: Klassified
Suffice it to say the reason Christians say they are not beholden to old testament law is they believe Jesus Christ is the perfect fulfillment of that law. So to be "in Christ" is the fulfillment of God's law through grace. It's not quite that simple...

Actually Klass, I think it is that simple

To you it is, but to those outside "the body", the term "dead in Christ" has no meaning or association to law and grace, but I understand what you're saying.

I couldnt follow a faith that would allow untold tragedy so that someone can "glorify" his works. Twisted.

I recommend reading the Book of Job to catch the essence of what I am saying. Sometimes I have a hard time expressing my thoughts in forums like this - for that I apologize.

originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: Hecate666

Your claim that religion isn't the answer and that mankind is capable of fixing our own problems with knowledge is just your version of wishful thinking. The Bible has proven to us that corrupt mankind always finds a way to use knowledge to commit evils that humans can't always overcome. In summary, humans are going to lose the battle and God is going to win the war. That's part of the reason we face human death in the first place.

Yeah, mankind certainly finds a way to use knowledge for evil and it also uses gullibility to order people around and make them do silly things like go on crusades, hate others, kill others etc. I am talking about religion. I am not just talking about christianity, but all religions.

Religion is ruled by people who do not have your best interests at heart. Neither does the military. We are all in the same boat of nasty folk abusing others because they are gullible.
YOu think knowledge = inventions. It doesn't. KNowledge means that you have managed to crawl out of Plato's cave and see the world for what it is. Or if you are younger, you wake up in a pod in the Matrix or you actually see behind the curtains.

Once you have looked behind the curtain, you can't be tricked any longer by lying, power hungry people in power.

That includes the church or whatever and it includes politicians telling you lies.

If you have seen a horse, nobody can tell you it's a fish.
It's impossible.

There will still be people doing nasty things involving horses, but YOU know it's not a fish. Simple as.

That is what I am trying to say.

a reply to: FinallyAwake

You're right. The trouble with Bible is people don't read it. Perhaps God should have made it a musical first time round.

I can't claim the quote is out of context, that's certainly Ephesians 6:5.

What isn't quoted though is Ephesians 6:6,7,8, and 9, all of which add context.

I'll focuss on Ephesians 6:9 "And masters, treat your slaves in the same way. Do not threaten them, since you know that he who is both thier Master, and yours is in heaven and there is no favoritism with him."

I have faith in those who misuse and abuse the Bible ultimately finding themselves meeting the central characters.

That would be an interest sequel, I think.

a reply to: FinallyAwake

You're right. The trouble with Bible is people don't read it. Perhaps God should have made it a musical first time round.

I can't claim the quote is out of context, that's certainly Ephesians 6:5.

What isn't quoted though is Ephesians 6:6,7,8, and 9, all of which add context.

I'll focuss on Ephesians 6:9 "And masters, treat your slaves in the same way. Do not threaten them, since you know that he who is both thier Master, and yours is in heaven and there is no favoritism with him."

I have faith in those who misuse and abuse the Bible ultimately finding themselves meeting the central characters.

That would be an interest sequel, I think.

originally posted by: TheInfiniteFantastic
As you all know, we have entered dark times.

What dark times? Compared to most of the people in the world and compared to most of the time throughout history, we are living in a near paradise!!

Maybe you should read "One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich" by Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn to better understand what it means to live in "dark times".

We are definitely NOT living in dark times, quite the contrary!

Regarding the bible and religion in general ... the worst atrocities were all done in the name of the bible and for religions reasons. Do I need to remember you on almost 1000 years of dark times where there was almost exclusive rule of the bible to a terrible effect on mankind? (don't come with "they were not real christians nor faithful believers", that is an excuse too cheap)

And don't get me started on the bible in general! This collection was so heavily edited over the years by power-hungry warlords - especially in the first few centuries; really invest some time to dig into various fragments, canons, and what was left out.