What we know about Trump's DEAL with the Taliban before leaving office

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: MykeNukem
a reply to: HiddenIdentity

Looks like Trump had the right idea with a gradual pull out at least.

Stormy agrees.

a reply to: HairForceOne

The pull out could've been handled much better but that likely would have only delayed the inevitable.

Unless chaos globally is your plan.
It seems every news outlet, all the networks are saying the same thing. Maybe this was their plan and the media is doing there job to feed us Misinformation.
No way they got this that wrong.

a reply to: network dude

A couple of things here. Indeed, Trump did put in motion an end to US deployment in Afghanistan. This was much ballyhooed here on these forums as something that helped to fulfill his campaign promises. I remember this because even I recognized this at the time as a positive move for our nation and a brownie point for Trump.

Also, we know that the deadline that had been set between the Trump administration and the Taliban was set for May 1st. This deadline was not met but rather continued on into the middle of August giving three and a half months more for the government of Afghanistan and the Taliban to make negotiations on how to move forward with their own futures. This apparently did not happen,

That there were going to be serious difficulties in pulling off the end of this deployment as pointed out in this USA article from March was understandable

www.usatoday.com...

Here is that headline.

''Biden faces Trump's deadline on Afghanistan troop withdrawal: 'Any way you cut it, we are headed for a messy outcome''.

So yup, this withdrawal has ended up as a grand cluster&)(&K( . But we really should have know it was going to be.

That said, it sure would have been nice to have hung around a bit longer to assure that our citizens along with those Afghans who worked with our troops complete withdrawal . We should not forget however that again, the peace deal with the Taliban set in motion by Trump had set the deadline for May 1st.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: network dude
I can't speak for everyone, but I will say, Joey isn't the planning guy, just the guy who (supposedly) gives orders. There are people who's job it is to plan and execute the orders given. So this isn't something Joe did wrong, it's something Joe managed wrong.

Much like if you told a group of sales guys to go sell some water to a guy dying of thirst, and they came back without a sale, you would be pissed, it wouldn't be your fault they failed, but you would still end up holding the bag and having everyone wonder why you didn't get this done correctly.

I don't disagree.

Blame Trump for not doing the same thing, disingenuous. Blame Trump for continuing the war, I suppose, although he spend some time trying to end it the right way, as this OP explains. But some folks see red, some orange.

I do disagree with this, it still would have ended with the Taliban in charge, it was inevitable. The Afghanis are corrupt and tribal, they aren't interested in democracy.

I didn't say they wouldn't have been in charge. That was inevitable. We decided, Under Trump, we were leaving. (remember, all his fault), the only disagreement was HOW we were leaving. If you are sure Trump is to blame, explain what he did wrong, and what he should have done.

I know he screwed things up, and was far from perfect. But I also know there is little he could ever do that would garner your approval. You at least have to be honest with yourself.

a reply to: TerryMcGuire

If you listen to the Trump interview a few posts up, he was describing his plan. Military out LAST. he was going to evac all the equipment, all the people, then the military. The opposite happened.

If it had been done that way, would we still see the scenes we did? Be honest, at least with yourself.

a reply to: TerryMcGuire

I don't disagree that we should have expected the stability of the Afghan government was going to be questionable after troop withdrawals. That's not really at issue here. What is at issue is the manner in which the withdrawal took place, not the timing of it. In addition to the Afghans having an extra 3 months, so did the US...to perform an orderly withdrawal.

I've said this countless times...we should have evacuated the non-coms first, then demobilized the equipment, weapons and munitions. Then pulled back the diplomats...and THEN airlifted the troops out. What Biden did is exactly back-asswards from that. He pulled the troops first, which was a colossally boneheaded move! By doing this he effectively armed the enemy while at the same time creating a humanitarian crisis involving not just refugees, but also...American citizens! Any military commander with any sense at all would have objected to this, so they must have been ordered to do this by the only person capable of giving such an order, president Joe Biden. If any military commander came up with this plan he should be court marshaled and reduced to the rank of buck private because they're an idiot.

No, Biden owns this, straight-up.

a reply to: TerryMcGuire

The 46 administration should have made this a priority. For some reason they want to remove any aspect of the 454 administration but when they screw up they want to say it was his policy? You cannot have it both ways.

Was there unrest in the ME for the 4 years 45 was there? Nope. He brokered peace. The Taliban knows weakness. They see it. They moved. I cannot blame them to be honest. They were able to walk right in and it was poor planning on the current administration to see this through.

If it would have been done correctly it would have been a huge win. They needed to follow the 45 admin and get all personnel out first, then equipment and then let the majority of the troops come home and leave a small security force for guidance. If it feel then it is a AF airlift and they can sort it out themselves.

We need to be asking ourselves why it was 'allowed' to happen just like 9/11 or Benghazi which were severe intel failues.

originally posted by: network dude
(remember, all his fault)

Did I say it was all his fault? I clearly and reputedly said he shares in the blame along with the other three cretins.

a reply to: matafuchs

I don't think anything about Afghanistan could be considered a "win", but we could have left without all of this, and not had such a disgraceful image, as we do now.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: network dude
(remember, all his fault)

Did I say it was all his fault? I clearly and reputedly said he shares in the blame along with the other three cretins.

And I asked what he should have done differently? he tried to get us out of there. Obama did not. I understand your position, but I also want to know why he shares blame? maybe he does, I'm just not seeing it that way.


eta, and the (all his fault) was from the Biden camp, not yours.

originally posted by: network dude
And I asked what he should have done differently?

Nothing. The Taliban would have taken over no matter what was done other than us staying there for another 20 years which was not an option. As DB said in another thread it was our Kobayashi Maru.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: network dude
I think the current conversation, since Trump has been blamed for this...

And he rightly deserves some blame along with his predecessors. Is this now on Joe's dime? Yeah. But people who want to dump the entire fiasco on him are usually way too partisan to have meaningful conversations with.

The rest of the world blames USA, the rest of the coalition in afghanistan wasnt even involved in the decision to just leave and give everything up to Taliban like that. well done people.
We shouldnt have been there to begin with, but the way this has been handled couldnt be any worse than it is.
Funny how none of the voters want to take any responsibility when the shtf.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

yes, but he was trying to get us out, had a plan, the only thing that stopped it was that pesky election.

So again I ask, what part of this makes it partially Trump's fault?

originally posted by: ToLiveIsToDie
The rest of the world blames USA, the rest of the coalition in afghanistan wasnt even involved in the decision to just leave and give everything up to Taliban like that. well done people.

Who negotiated the withdrawal?

originally posted by: network dude
yes, but he was trying to get us out, had a plan, the only thing that stopped it was that pesky election.

So again I ask, what part of this makes it partially Trump's fault?

His plan and you can probably throw his procrastination into there as well, he could have begun this four years ago instead of waiting until he got voted out to expedite the withdrawal.

Either way there was no way out of this without the Taliban taking over again, it's what the Afghanis want.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: ToLiveIsToDie
The rest of the world blames USA, the rest of the coalition in afghanistan wasnt even involved in the decision to just leave and give everything up to Taliban like that. well done people.

Who negotiated the withdrawal?

You tell me?

My point is that you americans are discussing wether to blame Trump, Biden, Bush etc. But it was a very sudden and very american decision to leave like they did and was not according to what had been planned before hand. the rest of the world doesnt see USA as one person.
Some places the afghanistan army just woke up to empty bases because they didnt even knew they where leaving...

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: network dude
yes, but he was trying to get us out, had a plan, the only thing that stopped it was that pesky election.

So again I ask, what part of this makes it partially Trump's fault?

His plan and you can probably throw his procrastination into there as well, he could have begun this four years ago instead of waiting until he got voted out to expedite the withdrawal.

Either way there was no way out of this without the Taliban taking over again, it's what the Afghanis want.

Spot on.

Many Americans and people from western democracies, can't believe people would willingly choose tribal theocracies, but many like the Afghanis do.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus


Either way there was no way out of this without the Taliban taking over again, it's what the Afghanis want.

again, I still agree with that. So you feel Trump's mistake was not executing a withdraw fast enough?

I suppose that's fair in a black and white world.

And this isn't to excuse him, but more to offer a "why that is" kind of thing. Remember "I know more about ISIS than the generals do", that was an inexperienced Trump being Trump. He knew what we knew about world events until be became president. And Once he did, he had a few "speed bumps" along the way. See also, impeachments. So with a lot on his plate, he managed to negotiate a plan for withdraw in 4 years, while keeping us out of any new wars, and was only hindered on the withdraw due to being replaced by the greatest politician evah. I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you on this.

originally posted by: ToLiveIsToDie
You tell me?

That would be Trump's plan and Biden is at fault for his participation in it.

Did we not learn the lesson from Obama's blunder in Iraq were we did a quirk pullout and ISIS filled the vacuum? Were was Joe on that one? lol

I don't think people realize just how bad ISIS was... We are talking levels past going medieval on the country. BTW we are also back in Iraq once again to stabilize it all.

Now we have Afghanistan where no one is suggesting we be there forever, but to pull out in one month was crazy Obama's Iraq level of stupidity.