Questions - I Have Questions that

a reply to: ketsuko

I get where you're coming from....
....though I 'have' been somewhat 'afraid' of getting Covid, it was not due to the illness itself, but the studies showing that the virus could cross the 'blood/brain barrier' and the attendant nervous system issues such as depression, brain fog, etc..as well as other potential "long-Covid" symptoms such as unrelieved fatigue and lung damage - because I've battled Major Depressive Disorder plus chronic fatigue since my teens (so over 40 yrs now), and I am just so dad-gum tired of being tired, that if I had to endure a longterm (maybe permanent) worsening of such feelings -
- well, death would be preferable...so, when my husband insisted that we take the J & J shot "to do our part to keep others safe" (the propaganda back in April), I just didn't see any point fighting him on it...

....though, I did say a prayer that if God disapproved and presented some sort of sign that I shouldn't take the shot, then I would abide by that (He's always been very good about guiding me in difficult decisions).

Now, all that said, I also have (since March 2020) had my husband, daughter, and I on a 'Covid preventative protocol' recommended by Dr. Mark Marek, of "E. Virginia Med. School" of Quercetin, Zinc, Vitamin D3, & vitamin C

Anyway, sorry that is maybe too much info!

So, as to your primary point here:

So coming back around, I want to understand how we get to a place where we seem to have a large segment of people who want to segregate out those who choose not to get vaccinated.

My 'take' on those rabidly 'pro'vax people is that they are victims of mainstream media propaganda, driving them to irrational fear of the unvaccinated for the specific purpose of inciting them to get hysterical enough to start really pushing for extreme measures - 'not' actually in order to implement 'segregation', but to make it seem a real enough threat that significant numbers of 'resisters' will be pressured to get vaccinated ..

....and of course the ultimate agenda there being financial benefit of the pharmaceutical companies (plus, possibly, some other agenda which the 'powers that be' may very well be striving to implement.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: tanstaafl

originally posted by: ScepticScot
1.Yes that is what vacines normally do, some more effectively than others but the basic concept is the same.

Too bad this ain't a real vaccine then, eh?

Well it is, but if you want to call it something different then knock yourself out.

Still works regardless.

If this were a true vaccine, why did the definition of vaccine have to be changed?

Edit to add, I know you guys like links. Merriam-Webster

originally posted by: tanstaafl

originally posted by: ScepticScot
originally posted by: tanstaafl
"Too bad this ain't a real vaccine then, eh?"

Well it is, but if you want to call it something different then knock yourself out.

Still works regardless.

Except, it doesn't keep you from getting the virus, or from spreading the virus, or from getting sick, or from dying, and has some very serious short term side effects like paralysis, blood clots/heart attacks/aneurisms and death, and unknown long term debilitating effects.

Other than that, yeah, it works great.

Only it does significantly reduce the chance of you getting sick or dying and the side effects are incredibly rare (far rarer than any negative effects of covid)

So yes it does work.

originally posted by: ketsuko
All right, so what I want to know and understand is the mindset of the group of people who got vaccinated and will still demand vaccine passports and every other measure imaginable on top of being vaccinated.

It seems we have a good number of people who responded who are not personally terribly afraid of COVID themselves. Those are the ones of us who got it for reasons completely unrelated to COVID itself. Even those of us who got it for reasons of dealing with those who have a higher risk category for COVID are not necessarily afraid of it for our sakes.

Then there are a few here who got it because they may be in that higher risk category.

And the closest response I got to what I was after was Scot who got it and will only admit he feels that it might keep him out of the hospital. So he seems to be both afraid of COVID as an illness and skeptical of the vaccine as a measure against it. Now, he didn't say as much, but it could be that he has reason to be afraid of COVID as an illness. He may be immunocompromised, for example. So I can't judge on that one way or the other. Suffice it to say, he seems to be afraid of COVID.

Because for myself, being vaccinated, I don't feel a fear of my fellow man to the point where I worry about whether or not they may be vaccinated or not, and I don't cringe if they're in a mask or not. But, I've been vaccinated *and* I was never terribly afraid of COVID to begin with.

So let's start at square one, even Scot agrees that no one wants to get sick (outside a few sickos - see what I did there?), and we can assume that follows for vaccinated, unvaccinated, maskers, and anti-maskers alike. But I think there are likely certain thresholds we reach where some of us simply assume that a certain amount of illness in life is inevitable. For example, I know I don't want to get sick, but I also know I'm going to get colds and flus as the seasons the change. These things happen.

Considering that it's likely COVID may have walked its way out of a level 4 bio-containment lab, and that couldn't hold it, I would think that anyone ought to be able to see the folly of trying to think that cloth masks and being 6' away from each other would ever really stop it.

At any rate, when we all got the vaccine, every single one was sold as being at least 80% likely to prevent infection altogether. Several, like the Pfizer, were sold as being even more effective than that at more than 90% likely to prevent it. And yes, after that, if you did still manage to get sick then it was going to reduce severity of symptoms to the point where you wouldn't need hospitalization.

So coming back around, I want to understand how we get to a place where we seem to have a large segment of people who want to segregate out those who choose not to get vaccinated. As someone who got the shot while not being particularly afraid of COVID myself, this makes no sense to me. If the shot does as they say, even if it only keeps me out of the hospital, then there is no need to treat people like lepers for choosing not to vaccinate. The severest consequences of their choice is still on them.

I know the popular comeback is that these people could infect the vulnerable, but this was always true. In fact, even vaccinated as I am, I am still a risk to the vulnerable with any number of conditions, COVID notwithstanding. A vulnerable person is a vulnerable person and COVID is not unique to their life as a danger.

So does it really boil down to being told that this one illness can absolutely be avoided if only we do these things, and these are people so utterly terrified of being ill that they will allow anything just to avoid this one illness, even knowing that they can and will still catch all the other medley of minor illnesses out there?

That's what I wanted to know.

Only I don't support vacine passports and happily live somewhere most restrictions are now either gone or being phased out. You might want to have checked that minor point in one of your many questions.

Also have as I already pointed out already i am not sceptical about the vacine (or at least no more than anything else) or indeed am I afraid of covid. I am in a relative low risk category, I took the vacine because it puts me at even lower risk same way I take the flu vacine most years.

If that really is your big reveal then this thread really has been a total waste of time.

ETA you point would be invalid anyway as someone can have different reason for being vacinated and supporting restrictions. For example if they live somewhere with low rates of vaccination.

originally posted by: litterbaux

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: tanstaafl

originally posted by: ScepticScot
1.Yes that is what vacines normally do, some more effectively than others but the basic concept is the same.

Too bad this ain't a real vaccine then, eh?

Well it is, but if you want to call it something different then knock yourself out.

Still works regardless.

If this were a true vaccine, why did the definition of vaccine have to be changed?

Edit to add, I know you guys like links. Merriam-Webster

Deffintions change all the time, particularly to reflect changing technology.

a reply to: ketsuko

Most probably won't admit to being in the force camp, but many likely are just for the fact their talking about re restricting the rights of the vaccinated at the blame of the unvaccinated.

People have been held hostage for a year by their government, and yet believe mass compliance is the only way to get their freedom back. You're seeing what stockholm syndrome, munchausen syndrome, and mass hysteria does to the collective psyche.

a reply to: CthruU

Allow me, Its called yield admissions, Socratic/erotomatic questioning. It's actually a attempted assault on your intelligence...... look it up.

Erotomatic, Umm what? Erotomania, is that what you meant?

Also maybe she is just asking sequential questions, to find truth and expand others awareness. I don't think she was trying to "assault your intelligence". Seems a bit over the top.

Because covid 19 is in a state of pandemic.

By having the vaccination I should be at less risk from severe illness from it and it will hopefully reduce the chances of future lockdowns and more fatalities on global scale.

I'd like to return to what we laughably refer to as normality.



a reply to: ketsuko