Questions - I Have Questions that

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: ScepticScot

You did not answer my question.

Did you start out believing what you were told: 80 to 90% effective in preventing infection?

Not really because that isn't what was claimed.

You haven't answered my question, is there a point to your questions?

a reply to: ScepticScot

I said yes. There is a point.

And originally the vaccines were all claimed to be between 80 and 90%+ effective at preventing infection, even the Oxford one. And yes, if you got infected, they would also prevent severe symptoms to better keep you out of the hospital.

Now, when you got vaccinated which was the greater selling point: prevention or reduction of severity should prevention fail?

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: ScepticScot

I said yes. There is a point.

And originally the vaccines were all claimed to be between 80 and 90%+ effective at preventing infection, even the Oxford one. And yes, if you got infected, they would also prevent severe symptoms to better keep you out of the hospital.

And?

a reply to: ScepticScot

See edit above

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: ScepticScot

You did not answer my question.

Did you start out believing what you were told: 80 to 90% effective in preventing infection?

You haven't answered my question, is there a point to your questions?

Allow me,

Its called yield admissions, Socratic/erotomatic questioning.

It's actually a attempted assault on your intelligence...... look it up.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: ScepticScot

See edit above

Both.

I would rather not be ill at all.

If I am I would rather it be as mild as possible.

Are you going to get to the point anytime soon?

originally posted by: CthruU

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: ScepticScot

You did not answer my question.

Did you start out believing what you were told: 80 to 90% effective in preventing infection?

You haven't answered my question, is there a point to your questions?

Allow me,

Its called yield admissions, Socratic/erotomatic questioning.

It's actually a attempted assault on your intelligence...... look it up.

I am aware that the OP is hoping for some perceived big gotcha moment.

Just curious what it might be since from a personal view there is absolutely no argument against me being vaccinated.

a reply to: ScepticScot

Ok, now we're getting somewhere. That I understand.

So do you think anyone wants to be sick or wants you to be sick?

Specifically those who chose to get the shot for reasons other than illness, do you think they want to be sick or want others to be sick?

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: ScepticScot

Ok, now we're getting somewhere. That I understand.

So do you think anyone wants to be sick or wants you to be sick?

Specifically those who chose to get the shot for reasons other than illness, do you think they want to be sick or want others to be sick?

With a few sociopathic exceptions no. Why would they?

a reply to: ScepticScot

Did you forget that I happen to be vaccinated too?

Why would I try to convince you that you shouldn't be?

No. That isn't what I want to understand.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: ScepticScot

Did you forget that I happen to be vaccinated too?

Why would I try to convince you that you shouldn't be?

No. That isn't what I want to understand.

Then you want to explain what you do wish to understand?

a reply to: ScepticScot

Yeah actually I do, but I have reached the end of what I can do on my phone from work ... sliw morning. It will have to wait until I get home later tonight. There are more questions but maybe I have an idea.

I got it because my 85 and 82 year old parents who although are pretty healthy were very worried about getting it. If they felt safer around others who had the Vax, I'll do my part to ease their minds.

Also I like to travel and figured I would need it to go to Europe, etc.

Finally, I believe the scientists when they say it reduces the chance of infection and severity if you get it.

I'm not afraid of it, but if I can avoid the hospital, medical bills, etc.

I mentioned before I was recently at a party of 80 or more. All those that could be vaxxed were. No severe side effects and no outbreak occurred. It was 3 weeks ago.

a reply to: frogs453

I go to businesses and work on computers, and deal with people all the time. I don't get sick from them, and they don't get sick from me. I have already had it, so there is a good chance I won't get it again. Much like those who are vaccinated. Difference is, those who took the shot are going to be able to travel, where as, those like me, won't. I can save my money, and enjoy my pool.

originally posted by: ScepticScot
1.Yes that is what vacines normally do, some more effectively than others but the basic concept is the same.

Too bad this ain't a real vaccine then, eh?

originally posted by: tanstaafl

originally posted by: ScepticScot
1.Yes that is what vacines normally do, some more effectively than others but the basic concept is the same.

Too bad this ain't a real vaccine then, eh?

Well it is, but if you want to call it something different then knock yourself out.

Still works regardless.

originally posted by: ScepticScot
originally posted by: tanstaafl
"Too bad this ain't a real vaccine then, eh?"

Well it is, but if you want to call it something different then knock yourself out.

Still works regardless.

Except, it doesn't keep you from getting the virus, or from spreading the virus, or from getting sick, or from dying, and has some very serious short term side effects like paralysis, blood clots/heart attacks/aneurisms and death, and unknown long term debilitating effects.

Other than that, yeah, it works great.

All right, so what I want to know and understand is the mindset of the group of people who got vaccinated and will still demand vaccine passports and every other measure imaginable on top of being vaccinated.

It seems we have a good number of people who responded who are not personally terribly afraid of COVID themselves. Those are the ones of us who got it for reasons completely unrelated to COVID itself. Even those of us who got it for reasons of dealing with those who have a higher risk category for COVID are not necessarily afraid of it for our sakes.

Then there are a few here who got it because they may be in that higher risk category.

And the closest response I got to what I was after was Scot who got it and will only admit he feels that it might keep him out of the hospital. So he seems to be both afraid of COVID as an illness and skeptical of the vaccine as a measure against it. Now, he didn't say as much, but it could be that he has reason to be afraid of COVID as an illness. He may be immunocompromised, for example. So I can't judge on that one way or the other. Suffice it to say, he seems to be afraid of COVID.

Because for myself, being vaccinated, I don't feel a fear of my fellow man to the point where I worry about whether or not they may be vaccinated or not, and I don't cringe if they're in a mask or not. But, I've been vaccinated *and* I was never terribly afraid of COVID to begin with.

So let's start at square one, even Scot agrees that no one wants to get sick (outside a few sickos - see what I did there?), and we can assume that follows for vaccinated, unvaccinated, maskers, and anti-maskers alike. But I think there are likely certain thresholds we reach where some of us simply assume that a certain amount of illness in life is inevitable. For example, I know I don't want to get sick, but I also know I'm going to get colds and flus as the seasons the change. These things happen.

Considering that it's likely COVID may have walked its way out of a level 4 bio-containment lab, and that couldn't hold it, I would think that anyone ought to be able to see the folly of trying to think that cloth masks and being 6' away from each other would ever really stop it.

At any rate, when we all got the vaccine, every single one was sold as being at least 80% likely to prevent infection altogether. Several, like the Pfizer, were sold as being even more effective than that at more than 90% likely to prevent it. And yes, after that, if you did still manage to get sick then it was going to reduce severity of symptoms to the point where you wouldn't need hospitalization.

So coming back around, I want to understand how we get to a place where we seem to have a large segment of people who want to segregate out those who choose not to get vaccinated. As someone who got the shot while not being particularly afraid of COVID myself, this makes no sense to me. If the shot does as they say, even if it only keeps me out of the hospital, then there is no need to treat people like lepers for choosing not to vaccinate. The severest consequences of their choice is still on them.

I know the popular comeback is that these people could infect the vulnerable, but this was always true. In fact, even vaccinated as I am, I am still a risk to the vulnerable with any number of conditions, COVID notwithstanding. A vulnerable person is a vulnerable person and COVID is not unique to their life as a danger.

So does it really boil down to being told that this one illness can absolutely be avoided if only we do these things, and these are people so utterly terrified of being ill that they will allow anything just to avoid this one illness, even knowing that they can and will still catch all the other medley of minor illnesses out there?

That's what I wanted to know.