A word on catholicism...

Catholicism adherence to som forms of Christian doctrine and practice which are generally regarded as Catholic rather than Protestant or Eastern Orthodox. Many believe that Catholicism is Christianity, but this is simply not true. While many Catholics claim to be followers of Christ, they go against the teachings of Jesus Christ in many aspects of their religion. This of course does not mean that they will surely go to hell; however it may lead them on a path that veers away from salvation. Some of the important ways the Catholic Church goes against the word of God include: church structure and doctrine, as well as traditions.

The structure for the Catholic Church is not at all what Jesus Christ taught. The first point where we see this is the head of the Church. We are taught that Jesus Christ is the head of the Church, however within the Catholic Church they accept a human being as the head of the church, and even accept his decrees as being equal to the word of God. This man is of course the Pope. They claim that the Pope and other priests must be specially ordained and remain celibate. These people are often given the title of Father. Additionally, within the Catholic Church, many are not allowed to take part in Communion. These concepts are explicitly detailed in the following passages of scripture.

Jesus Christ, not Peter or a Pope, is the head and origin of the Church:

Colossians 1:18 “He is the head of the body, the church, as well as the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that he himself may become first in all things.”

We are all priests, and do not need to be celibate:

1 Timothy 4:1-3 “Now the Spirit explicitly says that in the later times some will desert the faith and occupy themselves with deceiving spirits and demonic teachings, influenced by the hypocrisy of liars whose consciences are seared. They will prohibit marriage and require abstinence from foods that God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.”

1 Peter 2:9 “But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people of his own, so that you may proclaim the virtues of the one who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.”

Revelation 5:10 “You have appointed them as a kingdom and priests to serve our God, and they will reign on the earth.”

Genesis 9:7 “But as for you, be fruitful and multiply; increase abundantly on the earth and multiply on it.”

1 Corinthians 7:2 “But because of immoralities, each man should have relations with his own wife and each woman with her own husband.”

Matthew 23:8 “But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher and you are all brothers.”

Only God shall have the title of Father, not priests:

Matthew 23:9 “And call no one your ‘father’ on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven.”

All Christians may take Communion:

Matthew 26:26-27 “While they were eating, Jesus took bread, and after giving thanks he broke it, gave it to his disciples, and said, ‘Take, eat, this is my body.’ And after taking the cup and giving thanks, he gave it to them, saying, ‘Drink from it, all of you, for this is my blood, the blood of the covenant, that is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.’”

Another way the Catholic Church is not in line with the Word of God is in the use of icons traditions. These include the use of prayer beads with repeated and preprogrammed mantras, praying to images of dead humans such as saints, and a flawed view of baptism. These concepts are explicitly detailed in the following passages of scripture.

Prayer Beads for use with repetition (Rosary):

Matthew 6:7 “When you pray, do not babble repetitiously like the Gentiles, because they think that by their many words they will be heard.”

All Christians are to be saints, and not simply chosen by a human to be called a saint in death.

1 Corinthians 1:2 “To the church of God that is in Corinth, to those who are sanctified in Christ Jesus, and called to be saints, with all those in every place who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours.”

Ephesians 1:1 “From Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, to the saints [in Ephesus], the faithful in Christ Jesus…”

Praying to Images and Dead Humans:

Deuteronomy 18:10-12 “There must never be found among you anyone who sacrifices his son or daughter in the fire, anyone who practices divination, an omen reader, a soothsayer, a sorcerer, one who casts spells, one who conjures up spirits, a practitioner of the occult, or a necromancer. Whoever does these things is abhorrent to the Lord and because of these detestable things the Lord your God is about to drive them out from before you.”

Exodus 20:4-5 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above or that is on the earth beneath or that is in the water below. You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I, the Lord, your God, am a jealous God, responding to the transgression of fathers by dealing with children to the third and fourth generations of those who reject me”

Baptism is immersion of a person who chooses to give they’re lives to God:

Mark 16:16 “The one who believes and is baptized will be saved, but the one who does not believe will be condemned.”

Acts 8:38-39 “So he ordered the chariot to stop, and both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and Philip baptized him. Now when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord snatched Philip away, and the eunuch did not see him any more, but went on his way rejoicing.”

A third point is that Catholic Church has the audacity to not allow their followers to read the scripture, the very word of God, telling them that a select few will interpret it and their followers much simply submit to just take their word for it. When someone challenges this, or other, catholic views they often do not have either the desire or the ability to back up their ideas, as every Christian is commanded to do.

Ephesians 3:1-6 “For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for the sake of you Gentiles – if indeed you have heard of the stewardship of God’s grace that was given to me for you, that by revelation the divine secret was made known to me, as I wrote before briefly. When reading this, you will be able to understand my insight into this secret of Christ. Now this secret was not disclosed to people in former generations as it has now been revealed to his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit, namely, that through the gospel the Gentiles are fellow heirs, fellow members of the body, and fellow partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus.”

1 Peter 3:14-15 “But in fact, if you happen to suffer for doing what is right, you are blessed. But do not be terrified of them or be shaken. But set Christ apart as Lord in your hearts and always be ready to give an answer to anyone who asks about the hope you possess.”

Additionally, there are a few historical errors in the Catholic tradition. I will not bother with the relatively insignificant errors and focus on the two big ones. One of these is the fact that they teach that Mary, the mother of Jesus Christ, remained a virgin to the day she died. She in fact had sex with her husband Joseph after Jesus was born and had other children, which were half brothers and sisters of Jesus Christ. The other major historical error is the fact that they teach that Peter, supposedly the first Pope, was celibate, and th

a reply to: GolgothaBridge
I would regard them as Christians, but badly taught Christians. Other varieties of bad teaching exist elsewhere, so they are not unique.

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: GolgothaBridge
I would regard them as Christians, but badly taught Christians. Other varieties of bad teaching exist elsewhere, so they are not unique.

G’day Disraeli, is it true that a pope held a service in the room of the last supper a few years or so ago, and the access was closed to those that accessed this room daily, maybe students ect.

a reply to: GolgothaBridge
Getting caught up in names and times can only happen presently.

All spiritual texts and teachings are pointing to where life is....the one life.

It's not in time...... it's here.....now.

What is right here?

Conflict occurs because there is no truth about past or future......but what's true, what's actually occuring, cannot be spoken.

That's why Jehovah cannot be spoken.

Because who can tell you about what actually is......if there's no thing separate from the happening...... there's no one..... there's just happening happening.

If this is heard then you have been saved.

a reply to: Robbo2006
I haven't heard this story. As far as I know, nobody knows where the last supper was held, and it is very unlikely that the building still exists.
I hold no brief for catholicism. The system is wrong. That's all the criticism we actually need.

Most Western Christian denominations adopted many of their pagan practices. Denominations themselves are a lovely gift from hell if you think about it.

I constantly remind myself of Jesus talking about the narrow gate, and that many professing Christians will hear Jesus say I never knew you. Most are deceived and have strayed far from God's instructions. It takes a good amount of faith in our times just to trust that we have God's true word.

I do trust my KJV, but more modern interpretations make God a liar, leave out important verses, and state that the mark of the beast goes ON hand or forehead rather than IN.

Still beats idolatry and Roman Catholicism. And any church that adopts their ways. It's almost like they worship the unholy trinity...

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: Robbo2006
I haven't heard this story. As far as I know, nobody knows where the last supper was held, and it is very unlikely that the building still exists.
I hold no brief for catholicism. The system is wrong. That's all the criticism we actually need.

Thanks for the reply, thank you for your contribution to ats. I couldn’t keep up with you when you were compiling your threads, plus my understanding of religion isn’t the best it slowed me back massively. Regards, Robbo.

originally posted by: DISRAELI
a reply to: Robbo2006

edit on 9-8-2021 by Robbo2006 because: My first DP

a reply to: Robbo2006
By the way, I haven't actually stopped compiling my threads. They are still happening.

a reply to: GolgothaBridge

Catholicism is corruption full stop.

In saying that any religion that places one man at the top and defines him as gods representative on earth then sends him of for surgery because clearly God is not protecting him speaks for itself......nutshell dig cause it's all been discussed a million times before here.

a reply to: CthruU

Very true. Also, the popemobile, because nothing says "faith in God" like a few centimeters of bulletproof glass.
Not to mention the constant contradictions between the words of the Pope and the word of God.

a reply to: DISRAELI

With 1000s of bible interpretations from various denominations and other religions, every one of them thinks they have found the right interpretations.

a reply to: CptGreenTea

I like Interlinear Bibles. Also, much of the new testament is regarding prophecies in the old testament. Goes back quite far.

a reply to: GolgothaBridge

Just a word on Anti Catholics, GOD warned the whole church about YOU.

2For with the same judgment you pronounce, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. 3 Why do you look at the speck in your brother’s eye, but fail to notice the beam in your own eye? 4How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ while there is still a beam in your own eye?

The Catholic Church has it's flaws but so too do the Protestants and the Orthodox.

The fact is GOD alone, not you, not me, not anyone else shall sift his wheat.

Wake up and get that hatred out of your heart you are serving only SATAN by attacking your fellow Christians by telling them THEY are NOT Christian when in fact it is the attitude that has possessed you and so many others within ALL the church's that seeks to take a knife of division to the body of Christ.

I shall tell you something else, even though they are NOT Christians and follow a false religion founded by an evil man there are a great many among the Moslem's that God finds far more palatable than those that seek to bang on his house wall's as if it is there own personal drum.

If you want to find error look to the Jehovah's Witnesses (whom are anything BUT) whom deny that Christ is GOD when in fact the bible teaches plainly that he IS God the WORD of God.

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God”

But even they if they love him will be saved and they too ARE Christians (Except the child abusers that infested all faiths whom are most certainly not of the flock of God's sheep but of the devil's sent to destroy the Church - all denominations).

Or the Mormon's, need I go on.

And the less said about church leaders (all denominations) abusing there position to wear silk robes and live in palaces or drive Ferrari's and fly in leer jets or make motivational speeches about how you CAN but then refuse to shelter people after a catastrophe in case they muddy the floor of there personal propaganda pad the better.

Here is an idea, instead of doing Satan's work and attacking your fellow Christians why not get a soap box and tell the Moslems why there religion is wrong, oh that's right most of us, at least those of us whom believe in Christ won't kill you but they WILL.


IF you are a Christian of any denomination then you are my brother so I will forgive you.

a reply to: LABTECH767

We each take those warnings to mean each other. I believe that we are at an impasse on this. But neither of us are perfect. I hold no I'll will against catholic believers, it is instead the human organization within the Vatican that I take issue with. I'm not going to sit here and say that the pope is the antichrist, as there is evidence going in a different direction, and I will not say that they are praying to Lucifer or anything like that, but it's not for me. As for the believers, if you accept Christ and confess (to God) and repent of your sins, were good.

a reply to: GolgothaBridge

Oh there are very UN-Christian organizations within the Vatican, organised crime for one, money laundering Vatican bank (money changers within a temple dedicated to the very Lord whom threw them out of the Old Temple) so I will not say I have do not have a bone to pick with those institutions because I share very much with you that opinion.

I have kind of fallen in love with the Syriac Orthodoxy myself though am not a member of that Church, unfortunately they have nearly been wiped out in there old homeland.

Though a Dialect of it rather than the exact language Jesus probably used they still speak the Lord's Prayer in Aramaic albeit Syriac or Syrian Aramaic a variation much as Glaswegian is to Cockney with it's own pronunciation but enough that the ancient language which is now almost extinct was once the main language spoken beside Greek and Latin in the region.

Many believe Our Lord actually spoke it in Aramaic when he was asked how shall we pray.

I believe this one is in Judean Aramaic as closely as they can recreate it since it was last spoken daily before AD69.

This is Syriac Sang OUR FATHER.


I also fully believe that God used a humble man whom was devout in his faith and had him show the world that the Ark of the Covenant is still in Jerusalem but beyond the reach of the Current Jewish Authority's until they convert to his word.

He did not find it he was DIRECTED to it by God's will.

He went to his death bed confessing it as the truth and I believe him, also all photos of the ark itself were blurred because it is NOT for our Eye's, not yet but the world needed to be reminded.


It does not matter what language you pray in so long as your heart is to the word of God so that is worth mentioning, the Catholic Church WAS in error in hiding the word of God from the people by occulting it in a language most of them did not speak but you can see one of there reasons was NOT utterly evil (though many may have been, power and control - those in charge - and doing things that the bible expressly forbids).

I shall forgive them what they know not.

But using that as an excuse not to go and tell the good news as it was meant to be told is like saying IF I tell them they will become guilty when in fact it is the opposite, IF I tell them that Christ has died for them and they need to believe in him and accept his sacrifice and offer themselves to him they WILL be saved.

a reply to: LABTECH767

Nice. And I throught it was mainstream accepted that he spoke it in Aramaic. It was the English of the day. Not litterally English, but that language that is kind of known anywhere you go. His parents spoke Aramaic, the Apostles spoke it. Why would he speak it in any other language? But honestly, God created the concept of language, he supercedes it, it does not matter what language you speak to God in. I am not perfect either.

As for the Ark... I wouldn't touch it if I knew where it was. Didn't turn out great for the last man to touch it. Ultracapacitors come to my mind.

And I for the record do not believe that all Catholics are bad or that they are all going to hell. I disagree with the idea of them being the "one true Christian church" and find many of the practices to be heretical, but I believe that most Catholics honestly love the Lord and desire to serve him.

a reply to: GolgothaBridge

As for the true church the shepherd calls and the sheep know his voice, he will call those he wants and those that call on him for salvation as well, I do not really think denomination comes into it but he certainly knows if we are decent or not so decent folk's and all our failings of which people tend to have many, without him after all we are all damned he is the only way and no church has the right to claim IT is the only way HE is the only way.

Other than Aramaic the Jews did also know Hebrew though it was probably more for the synagogue than daily life but the scrolls were written in it.

Other than that for a long time the Greeks had been the dominant power and so Greek was the other language that most people could speak and since the Romans had conquered the Greek world Latin was also one that many or even most could also by that time speak.

Given that the Jewish people had community's living as far as Rome (converts and Jewish ethnic) and perhaps even Britain at that time and definitely Greek Jews both converts and Jews that lived in Greek territory as well as throughout the known world with the temple being the centre of there faith and pilgrims coming from all over to visit including many from southern Africa and the East perhaps even as far as India and beyond they were definitely familiar with many languages and with the ancient Jewish homeland being so close to and indeed on many major trade routes that too brought communication with many other cultures and languages.

It is a fascinating subject but that is why the Lord chose that people at that place, not the geographic centre of the world but the very human centre of the human world at that time.

a reply to: LABTECH767

Very true. And just a bit of ammo to use againt the "Catholicism is the only church" folks, Write on a scroll what you see and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus, and to Smyrna, and to Pergamum, and to Thyatira, and to Sardis, and to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.

originally posted by: GolgothaBridge
... Many believe that Catholicism is Christianity, but this is simply not true. While many Catholics claim to be followers of Christ, they go against the teachings of Jesus Christ in many aspects of their religion.

Most notably, with what can be labeled as their* Trinity doctrine (*: in the sense that they were instrumental in popularizing it and forcing it upon the populace by means of a death penalty for not going along with it; using people like Clovis to butcher groups of people with opposing views, such as the Arians). Regarding the formulation of the Trinity doctrine, the New Catholic Encyclopedia observes: “It was the task of the Fathers of the Church and of the early councils to formulate the mystery of Christ, true God and true man, in accurate and technical terms.”

According to the Trinity doctrine adhered to by the majority of Christendom’s churches, the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost (or Spirit) are ‘one God as to substance but three persons as to individuality.’ All three persons are viewed as being ‘coequal and coeternal.’ The doctrine is considered to be a mystery that can never be fully understood. But what is the origin of this mystery?

The New Catholic Encyclopedia acknowledges: “There is the recognition on the part of . . . Biblical theologians, including a constantly growing number of Roman Catholics, that one should not speak of Trinitarianism in the New Testament without serious qualification. There is also the closely parallel recognition on the part of historians of dogma and systematic theologians that when one does speak of an unqualified Trinitarianism, one has moved from the period of Christian origins to, say, the last quadrant of the 4th century. It was only then that what might be called the definitive Trinitarian dogma ‘one God in three Persons’ became thoroughly assimilated into Christian life and thought.” So the Trinity doctrine as believed by the majority of Christendom’s church members is admittedly not presented as such in the Bible.

This gives rise to a number of questions: Why is the Trinity doctrine not set forth clearly in the Holy Scriptures? Does the formulating of this “mystery” find any basis in the Bible? Could it be that those who contributed to the development of the Trinity doctrine had actually departed from the teachings of true Christianity?

Already in the first century C.E. false teachers had crept into the Christian church or congregation. The apostle Paul wrote to Christians in Galatia: “There are certain ones who are causing you trouble and wanting to pervert the good news about the Christ. However, even if we or an angel out of heaven were to declare to you as good news something beyond what we declared to you as good news, let him be accursed.” (Gal. 1:7, 8) Warning Christians of future developments, the same apostle stated: “The inspired utterance says definitely that in later periods of time some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired utterances and teachings of demons.”​—1 Tim. 4:1.

Since the Trinity doctrine was not developed fully until the latter part of the fourth century C.E., there is clear possibility that those responsible for its development had apostatized from first-century Christianity. We should therefore want to prove to our own satisfaction whether the Trinity doctrine finds any basis in the Bible or not. Certainly no one desiring to gain God’s approval would want to be found following a ‘teaching of demons,’ that is, a doctrine contrary to God’s truth.

It may come as quite a surprise to some that the trinity of Chinese Buddhism is described in almost the same way as the trinity of Christendom: Of this Buddhist trinity, we read: “The Three are all included in one substantial essence. The three are the same as one; not one, and yet not different; without parts or composition. When regarded as one, the three persons are spoken of as the Perfect One (Tathagata). There is no real difference [between the three persons of the trinity]; they are manifestations, different aspects of the same unchanging substance.” Obviously, the formulation of the trinity of Chinese Buddhism had no connection with the Bible.

Could that also be true of the Trinity doctrine of Christendom’s churches? The Catholic Encyclopedia for School and Home frankly admits: “The Trinity was unknown to people before the time of Our Lord.” In an attempt to explain why the Trinity doctrine is not plainly presented in the Christian Greek Scriptures, the New Catholic Encyclopedia argues: “In the New Testament the revelation of Christ’s divinity was gradual, discreet, and mainly indirect. One never meets a blunt statement: Christ is God. It had to be so if that faith was to find entrance with the Jews.” But may it not just as well be that Jesus Christ never claimed to be coequal and coeternal with the Father because this simply was not the case?

The completed Holy Scriptures do not present the identity of Jesus Christ in concealed language, language that had to be clarified and years later formulated by clergymen into a mystery that no one understands. Jesus Christ is referred to as the “Son of God,” not as ‘God the Son.’ The very fact that he is called “Son” shows that he had a beginning. This is why the Bible speaks of him as being the “firstborn of all creation” and the “beginning of the creation by God.”​—Col. 1:15; Rev. 3:14.

Even after Jesus’ resurrection and ascension to heaven he did not gain a position of equality with his Father. The inspired apostle Paul wrote: “I want you to know that the head of every man is the Christ; in turn the head of a woman is the man; in turn the head of the Christ is God.” (1 Cor. 11:3) “The Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone.” (1 Cor. 15:28) In the book of Revelation the glorified Lord Jesus Christ repeatedly speaks of his Father as “my God.” At Revelation 3:12, for example, we read: “The one that conquers​—I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he will by no means go out from it anymore, and I will write upon him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem which descends out of heaven from my God, and that new name of mine.” This is in full harmony with Jesus’ earlier statement to Mary Magdalene: “I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.”​—John 20:17

In view of the clear testimony of the Scriptures, the Trinity doctrine is what the New Catholic Encyclopedia acknowledges it to be​—a mystery formulated by men living years after the Holy Scriptures were committed to writing. The formulation of this mystery in supposedly “accurate and technical terms” has, in reality, so confused matters that throughout the centuries millions have been unable to see the difference between the expressions “Son of God” and “God the Son.” Instead of ‘bending the knee in the name of Jesus and acknowledging him as Lord to the glory of God the Father,’ they have worshiped something they admittedly do not understand​—a mysterious triune God. (Phil. 2:10, 11) The Trinity doctrine has thus made it impossible for millions to worship God “with spirit and truth” and has dishonored God by denying that he alone is the Supreme Sovereign of the universe.​—John 4:24.