Futile Endeavours Inc.

originally posted by: glend

If you look christianity. ... Why did Jesus in Gospel of Thomas infer he was a beast?

“These are the secret words which the Living Jesus spoke and Didymos Judas Thomas wrote.” So begins The Gospel According to Thomas, one of 48 different Gnostic religious documents* found in Upper Egypt 76 years ago. (*: 13 leather-bound volumes dating back to the second century C.E. But not until 1955 did this archaeological discovery begin making big headlines. And it still makes waves among Bible readers because it is claimed by some that the discovered volumes contain the secret sayings of Jesus.) Commenting on this, Helmut Koester of Harvard Divinity School said that the gospel of Thomas would provide important new material for discerning the teachings of Jesus. But does it? Do Gnostic gospels really contain the secret sayings of Jesus? Is some secret wisdom that is important to Christian faith (Christianity) missing from the Bible?

The mystical Gnostics flourished during the first two centuries C.E. and claimed secret divine knowledge, or gnosis. They challenged genuine Christians about who had the true teachings and writings of Jesus and his disciples. Do the Gnostic books reveal pertinent information to strengthen a Christian’s faith? No.

Encyclopedias and most Bible scholars label these Gnostic writings as not only apocryphal (noncanonical) but also as pseudepigraphic (falsely attributed to Bible writers). As reported in Psychology Today, Andrew M. Greeley, a Roman Catholic priest and professor of sociology at the University of Arizona, said of these books: “They could have no appeal to the ordinary person who looked to religion for help with life problems and not negation of the importance of life.” And when Greeley compared the Gnostic gospels with those of the Bible, he concluded: “The Jesus of the Gnostics is sometimes incoherent, sometimes unintelligible, and sometimes more than a little creepy.”

A great chasm exists between the teachings of the Gnostic gospels and the Bible Gospels. This gap is especially noted when you compare Gnostic and Bible teachings regarding God, the resurrection, and salvation. Yet, a similarity can be seen between Gnosticism and ancient Greek philosophy, Buddhism, and Hinduism.

Gnostic writers depict a Jesus shockingly different from the one portrayed by Bible writers. The Gnostic Gospel of Philip characterizes Mary Magdalene as the most intimate of Jesus’ companions and states that he “used to kiss her [often] on her [mouth].” No wonder the Encyclopædia Britannica states: “Gnostic ethics ran the gamut from compulsive promiscuity to extreme asceticism.”

Why do many question the Bible’s completeness? For some, it may be a matter of not making a healthy investigation of the facts. For others, it may be a secret desire to flee from accountability. Hence, it is important to heed the apostle Paul’s counsel to Timothy: “Guard what is laid up in trust with you, turning away from the empty speeches . . . falsely called ‘knowledge.’ For making a show of such knowledge* some have deviated from the faith.”​—1 Timothy 6:20, 21. *: Greek: gnoʹsis

Archaeological discoveries will continue, and some may add to our understanding of Bible history. But no one discovery can verify or deny the Bible’s truthfulness. The Bible stands on its own merits. Of course, each one of us must decide whether to believe what Paul wrote: “Even if we or an angel out of heaven were to declare to you as good news something beyond what we declared to you as good news, let him be accursed.” (Galatians 1:8)

As for me, I believe that the Bible is complete. The apostle Paul’s second letter to Timothy, chapter 3, verses 16 and 17, well states my conviction. There we read: “All scripture is inspired by God and can profitably be used for teaching, for refuting error, for guiding people’s lives and teaching them to be holy. This is how the man who is dedicated to God becomes fully equipped and ready for any good work.”​—The Jerusalem Bible.

Experience has taught me that the Bible has no gaps in stating God’s purpose or in providing needed counsel for day-to-day living. It tells me why we are here and where we are going. In brief​—the Bible is complete.

And it would be no surprise to me if "Jesus in [the] Gospel of Thomas infer[s] he was a beast", as you say, if that was true (and not read into that text or simply imagined). My immediate thought was: 'typical'.

a reply to: whereislogic

I fully appreciate the path you take whereislogic but I look for inspirition in all scriptures. Understand that the "Beast" is akin to a "destroyer" of ones material life (forcing people to seek the spiritual). If you look at Hinduism, Shiva the Destroyer is considered one of the most important Gods in the Hindu pantheon, They see the Creator Brahma as creating the Illussion (maya) whereas Shiva destroys that illussion. So Gospel of Thomas is not painting Jesus in a negative way.

a reply to: Peeple
Where do stories appear?
Is That a story?

In what does everything appear?

originally posted by: glend
a reply to: whereislogic

I fully appreciate the path you take whereislogic but I look for inspirition in all scriptures.

Just to be clear, when Paul used the expression “all scripture” at 2 Timothy 3:16, he did not include apocryphal (noncanonical)* Pagan Gnostic writings "dating back to the second century C.E." (i.e. written after completion of the Bible*), falsely attributed to Bible writers or characters, with an obvious influence from and link to Greek (pagan) philosophy, Buddhism, and Hinduism.

*: The inspired writings that are “beneficial for teaching” have a set catalog, often called a canon. (2 Timothy 3:16) Originally, the word “canon” referred to a reed used as a measuring rod. The Bible canon came to mean the set of books accepted as genuine, inspired of God and worthy of being used as a straightedge for measuring faith, doctrine, and conduct.

The official listing for the Hebrew Scriptures (often called the Old Testament) was fixed by the end of the fifth century B.C.E. Jesus Christ and his apostles used only books from this catalog when quoting Scripture. Therefore, I follow this same pattern for the Hebrew Scriptures. But what about the so-called New Testament, or the Christian Greek Scriptures?

Evidence for an authorized listing of writings for the Christian Greek Scriptures began piling up as early as 90-100 C.E. And by the end of the second century, there was no question that the canon of the Christian Greek Scriptures had been closed. There are at least 16 outstanding early catalogs of the Christian Greek Scriptures, from the Muratorian Fragment of 170 C.E. to the Third Council of Carthage of 397 C.E. Additionally, manuscripts of this part of the Bible in the original language (Greek) total more than 5,200. No other ancient document is so well supported. Hence, I look upon the Christian Greek Scriptures as being complete.

Human listings are not the main reason that I accept a book as being canonical. I also look for internal evidence. Here is what I look for:

◻ Contents that give evidence of inspiration by God’s holy spirit.

◻ Counsel against superstitions, demonism, and creature worship.

◻ Total unity with the rest of the Bible.

◻ A message that turns people to the worship of Jehovah and stimulates deep respect for his work and purpose.

◻ An appeal to love and to serve God.

◻ Conformity with the divine “pattern of healthful words” and harmony with the teachings of Jesus Christ.​—2 Timothy 1:13.

I find none of this evidence in Gnostic writings. As mentioned before:

The mystical Gnostics flourished during the first two centuries C.E. and claimed secret divine knowledge, or gnosis. They challenged genuine Christians about who had the true teachings and writings of Jesus and his disciples. Do the Gnostic books reveal pertinent information to strengthen a Christian’s faith? No.
...
And when Greeley compared the Gnostic gospels with those of the Bible, he concluded: “The Jesus of the Gnostics is sometimes incoherent, sometimes unintelligible, and sometimes more than a little creepy.”

A great chasm exists between the teachings of the Gnostic gospels and the Bible Gospels. This gap is especially noted when you compare Gnostic and Bible teachings regarding God, the resurrection, and salvation. Yet, a similarity can be seen between Gnosticism and ancient Greek philosophy, Buddhism, and Hinduism.

Gnostic writers depict a Jesus shockingly different from the one portrayed by Bible writers. ...

These pagan streams of human philosophy bolded above often do the exact opposite of the things I described under "internal evidence". Like the Gnostic writings, they conflict with the Bible and undermine its teachings and warnings against these philosophies and views that are “falsely called ‘knowledge.’” (1Ti 6:20). Instead of "contents that give evidence of inspiration by God’s holy spirit", their contents give evidence of inspiration by God's chief adversary, Satan the Devil and his human pawns (i.e. human pagan philosophy). Instead of "counseling against superstitions, demonism, and creature worship", they promote all 3 (the last 2 often better hidden or obscured than the first). In so doing and in other ways earlier described they lack "unity with the rest of the Bible." And they certainly do not contain "a message that turns people to the worship of Jehovah and stimulates deep respect for his work and purpose." (as also evidenced by you not being interested in worshipping Jehovah or showing any understanding of and thus also no respect for his work and purpose; much like others who are into the Gnostic writings, Greek philosophy, Buddhism and Hinduism, or get their ideas from these streams of philosophy) Closely related to that, instead of "appealing to love and to serve God" they (especially Buddhism), much like New Age philosophy, focus on 'the self'* and in the case of Hindusim, many gods. *: As this article about the New Age Movement explains:

... It has no personal god to be worshiped, yet it often promotes the idea of a god that can be found everywhere and anywhere.

What is it? It is the New Age movement: a loose mix of religious, cultural, social, political, and scientific ideologies, combined with fascination for Eastern mysticism, the paranormal, the occult, and even some strains of modern psychology. The mix includes belief in astrology, reincarnation, extraterrestrial life, evolution, and life after death. ...

...

A Religion of Self

In her autobiographical film Out on a Limb, famous actress and New Age author Shirley MacLaine stands on a windswept beach with her arms outstretched and exclaims: “I am God! I am God!” Like her, many New Agers promote the search for a higher self and the idea of a god within. They teach that humans need only raise their consciousness to find their divinity.

Once this is accomplished, they claim, the reality of a universal interconnectedness becomes clear​—everything is god, and god is everything. This is by no means a new idea. Ancient religions of Mesopotamia and Egypt believed in the deity of animals, water, the wind, and the sky. More recently, Adolf Hitler allegedly encouraged others to embrace the “strong, heroic belief in God in Nature, God in our own people, in our destiny, in our blood.”

New Age culture is saturated with literature, seminars, and training programs dealing with self-​potential and self-​improvement. “Getting in touch with my inner self” is a popular logo. People are encouraged to try anything and everything that can help them unleash their own possibilities. As one writer put it in the magazine Wilson Quarterly, the “movement’s central teaching is ‘that it doesn’t matter what you believe as long as it works for you.’”

Margot Adler, a New Age guru, explains that many of the women who join women’s New Age movements do it “for reasons that are very personal. . . . They hate their bodies, they hate themselves. They come into these groups which basically say to you, ‘You’re the Goddess, you’re wonderful.’”

New York magazine describes one group’s quest for the higher self: “A woman intones, ‘We are the teachers of the New Dawn. We are the Ones.’ Other participants, wearing horned headdresses, feathered masks, and wispy gowns, dance through the forest, grunting and gesticulating, keening and moaning.”

Sanitized Occultism

...

Source: What Is the New Age Movement? (Awake!—1994])

originally posted by: Baddogma
a reply to: olaru12

Wiser words have been written, but I agree ...
exponentially so.

Q: What else would a vast, infinitely complex consciousness do other than grow by spinning fractally expanding possibilities in infinity?

Those type of entities would have little use for introspection. Perhaps they really do shoot craps with the cosmos.

originally posted by: whereislogic

... And they certainly do not contain "a message that turns people to the worship of Jehovah and stimulates deep respect for his work and purpose." (as also evidenced by you not being interested in worshipping Jehovah or showing any understanding of and thus also no respect for his work and purpose; much like others who are into the Gnostic writings, Greek philosophy, Buddhism and Hinduism, or get their ideas from these streams of philosophy) Closely related to that, instead of "appealing to love and to serve God" they (especially Buddhism), much like New Age philosophy, focus on 'the self'* and in the case of Hindusim, many gods. ...

The bolded part should read "no particularly deep respect". The type of "deep respect" I was referring to earlier was not referring to the type of respect given with the notion, 'you believe whatever you wanna believe and I'll believe whatever I want to believe". The type of deep respect that comes from and resulting action in accordance with truly understanding Jehovah's work and purpose, believing it to be true and right(eous) based on knowing and understanding the evidence in relation to the 'why-question', and being in support of it (understanding its value and significance, understanding its righteousness and benefit to all, both human and spirit beings, i.e. angels).

Coming back to this part:

originally posted by: whereislogic

... Closely related to that, instead of "appealing to love and to serve God" they (especially Buddhism), much like New Age philosophy, focus on 'the self'* ... *: As this article about the New Age Movement explains:

...

New Age culture is saturated with literature, seminars, and training programs dealing with self-​potential and self-​improvement. “Getting in touch with my inner self” is a popular logo. People are encouraged to try anything and everything that can help them unleash their own possibilities. As one writer put it in the magazine Wilson Quarterly, the “movement’s central teaching is ‘that it doesn’t matter what you believe as long as it works for you.’”

So in contrast to the earlier bolded expression, basically serving one's own whims. Or is that "at one's own whims" then? Serving one's own interests. Whichever way the wind is blowing that most resonates with one's own thoughts, feelings/emotions and desires (“treacherous” heart*). Basically the phenomenon desribed at Ephesians 4:14 (which relates to my first comment in this thread, which was about verses 17-19 of the same chapter). *: At Jeremiah 17:9,10, Jehovah warns:

9 The heart is more treacherous* [Or “deceitful.”] than anything else and is desperate.* [Or possibly, “incurable.”]

Who can know it?

10 I, Jehovah, am searching the heart,

Examining the innermost thoughts,* [Or “deepest emotions.” Lit., “kidneys.”]

To give to each one according to his ways,

According to the fruitage of his works.

“So we should no longer be children, tossed about as by waves and carried here and there by every wind of teaching by means of the trickery of men, by means of cunning in deceptive schemes.” (Ephesians 4:14)

Cause Jehovah God promised:

“I, Jehovah, am your God, the One teaching you to benefit yourself. The One guiding you in the way you should walk.”​—ISAIAH 48:17.

And that's a promise you can take to the bank and the only truly fully reliable source of information, and he does so in his word, the Bible, from Genesis to Revelation, no more, no less. For example:

Cyrus (Insight on the Scriptures)
Concerning Isaiah 45 quoted in the video above, note the section:

Conquest of Babylon. Cyrus now girded for a confrontation with mighty Babylon, and from this point forward, in particular, he figured in the fulfillment of Bible prophecy. In Isaiah’s inspired restoration prophecy concerning Jerusalem and its temple, this Persian ruler had been named as the one appointed by Jehovah God to effect the overthrow of Babylon and the release of the Jews who would be exiled there. (Isa 44:26–45:7) Although this prophecy had been recorded well over one and a half centuries before Cyrus’ rise to power and though the desolation of Judah evidently took place before Cyrus was even born, still Jehovah declared that Cyrus would act as His “shepherd” on behalf of the Jewish people. (Isa 44:28; compare Ro 4:17.) ...

More about Cyrus (8:10), historical evidence and the fulfillment of Bible prophecy:

originally posted by: whereislogic
...
These pagan streams of human philosophy ... streams of philosophy...

And now that I've quoted Eph 4:14 in my last comment you can also read 'winds of teaching' there where I used 'streams of philosophy' previously, as an alternate way of expressing the concept.

These teachings are included:

One Myth Leads to Another (7 pages, 6 popular myths in Christendom)

There are many more, but the article above focuses on those that have seeped into Christendom, and only some of the most crucial ones that are connected to one another.

“For there will be a period of time when they will not put up with the wholesome* [Or “healthful; beneficial.”] teaching, but according to their own desires, they will surround themselves with teachers to have their ears tickled.* [Or “to tell them what they want to hear.”] They will turn away from listening to the truth and give attention to false stories.”* [Greek, myʹthos; KJV: “myths”] (2 Timothy 4:3,4)

“according to their own desires”: I used "whims" instead of “desires” in my previous comment.

Whichever way the wind is blowing that most resonates with one's own thoughts, feelings/emotions and desires (“treacherous” heart*).

“walking . . . in the futility of their minds.” Combining Eph 4:14,17 with 2 Timothy 4:3,4 with a reminder of the well-intended* warning at Jeremiah 17:9 (*: intended to benefit you, to help guard you against that which is falsely called knowledge or gnosis and often designed to direct away from the truths that will benefit you the most, the truths that matter most*).

As one writer put it in the magazine Wilson Quarterly, the “movement’s central teaching is ‘that it doesn’t matter what you believe as long as it works for you.’”

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: glend

... the truth is subjective ...

Also related. But I think I've said enough for now.

*:

I'm kind of leaning to ones own outward expression about life/god being synomonous, rather then it explaining things.

Being mad at an imaginary, invisible man in the sky, ain't healthy.

a reply to: whereislogic

The Bible on youtube...ironic but somehow entirely appropriate.