Iran is indeed not Iraq - And arrogance has always led to the fall of the greatest empires...

LOL!! ^^

Maan..you really do have some animosity in 'ya don't you?

Sure, maybe if it was 4,000 years ago that Iran was going to fight another country, they would be able to hold 'em off.

But get real, dude. It will NOT happen.

You are pretty funny though,

-wD

Originally posted by Siroos
WOW! You guys really believe the U.S. is invincible.....

You better prepare yourself for some dissapointment!

?
It's not a matter of thinking the US is invincible. It's stating facts. The US has a stronger army than Iran. The US will not go into Iran like it did Iraq. The US would handle the Iran situation completely different.
If the US were to invade Iran, yeah it'd probably last longer than it took to take Iraq, but they wouldn't "beat" us. That's just reality. No arrogance.
The sky is blue.
Grass is green.

The U.S. is a paper tiger, that's why it never attacks anything else than small and weak countries.

So....Germany and Japan were weak and small countries?

Your weaponry seems more high-tech than it really is, and your soldiers more efficeint and with a high morale than they really are because of the fact that they have only been tested in wars and attacks against small and weak countries. The moment you attack a country like Iran you will see what I mean!

Iraq's army was just as strong or stronger than Iran's when we attacked during GW1. Why were we successful then?

Well, the flaming has begun. What turned out to be an interesting debate, turned into a 'flame the U.S.' spectacle.

I'm audi.

Bla bla bla bla.....

Bottom line:

USA beats Iran. There is no way of getting around that. Sure, it may not be Iraq. It has a more advanced military, it has a larger military, it has a larger population - whatever.

It won't matter. They don't stand a chance.

Week one of war:

US destroys every military base, supply depot, comunications center, radar site, airbase, and power plant in Iran.

The Iranian military now has no supplies, can not produce an air war (not that it would matter) and can not quickly comunicate and coordinate attacks.

Keep in mind that at this point US ground forces aren't even involved.

WEEK TWO:

US systematically takes out every moderate to large grouping of soldiers and armour, again from the air.

The Iranian army realises at this point what the Iraqi's did - if they try to fight they are gunna die trying.

WEEK THREE:

US armor and mechanised infantry begin to move in under the cover of night. US abrahams tanks easilly destroy the Russian made T-72, as it has been proven in several conflicts that T-72's do not stand a chance against the faster, better armored, better armed Abrahams.

WEEK FOUR: US armor begins to occupy major Iranian cities. Fighting is fierce but scarce. US armor backed by 130's and apaches slaughter anyone trying to fight.

WEEK FOUR:

Iran is close to fully occupied, with sparadic fighting still occuring.

WEEK FIVE:

Cities become the focus as the Iranian military asmits conventional defeat and switchees to guarilla tactics.

WEEK SIX:

Iran fully occupied, owned, and run by US. Insurgency is still a problem, but the country is under the control of the US.

US KIA: >1000
Iranian KIA: 70% who try to fight a conventional war
US AIRCRAFT LOST: >10
Iranian aircraft lost: < 90%
US armor lost: >20
Iranian armor lost:

Originally posted by Siroos
I said that I believe in Karma, and that what goes around comes around - I didn't say that Karma only works for Americans.... However, I reject this naive notion that this is about the "good" "democracy" delivering Americans vs the evil, barabarian Muslim savages such as the American media wants you to believe.

What media is that exactly?

No, this is about the U.S. on a crusade to:

1) Eliminate the obstacles to its quest for world dominance - This includes subduing, passifying or destroying emerging economical and industrial powers such as China and Iran and to make sure that such nations will not ever become a competitive threat to the U.S.

You're joking no?
If the US wanted to take over the world, it would have done so long ago.
There is not one shred of evidence to suggest the US is trying to take over the world.

2) Gain control over the vastest energy sources in the world so that it can assure certain elements in U.S. can satisfy its immense greedy appetite for more wealth.

Why would we attack Iraq to do that?

3) Create huge markets for itself by first bombarding and destroying the infrastructures of the countries attacked, then forcing them to sign lucrative (for the U.S.) contracts for building up that which they destroyed.

1. You keep saying "countries" - plural. Why?
2. You got any evidence we forced anyone to sign anything?
3. Should we just leave what was destroyed?

4) Creating puppet regimes in the invaded countries which will provide the U.S. the ability and opportunities to culturally Americanize the populations and thus create huge shopping malls out of their countries where U.S. firms can sell everything and anything between nike sneakers to God knows what.

lol

5) Send armies of evangelic missionaries whose aim will be to spread misinformation about Islam (As they are currently very busy doing on the internet and in Satellite TV programs) and to convert Muslims to their Christian fundamentalist beliefs. This way they hope to get rid of the most powerful challenge to American hegemony in the Islamic world.

Evidence man. You have GOT to provide evidence when making ridiculous statements like this.

? I don't follow your reasoning here.... The U.S. and Israel has threatened to attack Iran..... Iran has not beheaded or threatened to behead anyone....

?
I never said they did....

Yes, you got involved in the WW2 because you had to for your own best. Had you not headed for Europe, then the Germans, Italians and Japanese would have targeted you next. It was for your own best.

So, Europe didn't benefit at all. Gottcha.

But the U.S. has bombarded at least 24 other countries after 1945 - 24 other countries!! Who is the agressor here? You can't go on bombing country after country because you do not agree with the kind of political system they have. Plenty of countries around the world do not agree with your political system, but does that give them the right to bomb you? Plenty of countries around the world opposed your apartheid system of segregation but that should not be a good reason enough to launch a military attack on another country.

Reading your posts would be so much easier if you knew anything about American history.

Oh come on! I don't think that most Germans or japanese regard American troops there as invadors or occupiers. You just have military bases there.

Ok.....
And once Iraq's government is in place, we'll just have bases there too...

You are an occupying force who invaded their country unlawfully, killed more than 120,000 innocent civilian Iraqis in the process

1. Unlawful to who? Not the UN.
2. Substract 100,000 from your number of innocents killed. (and alot of those 20,000 or so are from insurgents)

How do you get that the invasion was over 3 years ago? Iraq was invaded only 2 years ago.

Baghdad fell on April 9th in 2002. It's 2005.

We ended our "invasion" on May 1st, 2002. It's 2005
5-2 = 3

Typically when a country has been invaded and there's no more land left to invade....that's usually when an invasion is over....

And to this day there are still American and British troops in Iraq - so it's still occupied.

So we were supposed to just leave Iraq immediately?
No.

Certainly the insurgents who are not at all friendly towards the U.S. view the presence of American troops who invaded Iraq and killed more than 100,000 Iraqis as occupiers.

Those insurgents are idiotic punks. Who cares what they think.
btw the Lancet report gives a range of 9000-100000 Iraqis killed. However there is no evidence anywhere to suggest that even close to 100,000 Iraqi civillians have been killed.

Selfish reasons? What could be more selfish than to attack other countries, killing their people devastating their lands, and all for the sake of power and money? That's the mother of all selfishness!

You haven't done anything to justify how killing of 100s even 1000s of Iraqis and coalition forces trying to rebuild their country is right.

Long live a nuclear capable Iran!

You railed against the US breaking the law but you have no problem with Iran breakin it....
Back to that two wrongs don't make a right thing...

Originally posted by nathraq
Typical stereotype, until the stuff hits the fan. How many overweight soldiers do you see pushing the frontline?

None... yet, it was hypothetical. More US aggression in the Middle East will result in mass casualties for both sides. The Bush administration will stop at nothing to achieve its goal of, well, the 4th Reich! If this means slaughtering all their troops on the way and having fat people do the fighting, so be it.

America was key in the defeat of Germany, so it is not 'beside the point'. Germany did have the best equipped, most disciplined army of that time. Remember Dunkirk?

Exactly my point. It is besides the point the was America that was the key to defeat of Germany, BUT Germany was better equipped etc and Germany lost!

America is better equipped, but they will fall, at some point.

Oh, and if America attacks Iran. Iran destroys Isreal. The ‘American People’ have won, but that is a big blow to the real puppet masters.


[edit on 24-3-2005 by Ishes]

So, all in all sum it up in a few words..

Dallas

Now onto a few other matters:




You think you live in a free society? Maaannnnnnnn, you have a lot to learn. I think you need to wake up and smell the coffee (Don’t drink it though, its bad for you!). America is far from free, you just haven’t realised it yet. Your elections are rigged, your country is run by corporations and your brainwashed every day. Do some research my friend, then come back and say again that you live in a free country, I dare you.
to spoil your ‘field trip’ my yank friends!


One would think that our Limey friends could come up with a better argument than the same old tired conspiracy BS. Sounds interesting though, rigged elections and all. It would make a great movie. It is so
easy to say we are all brainwashed isn't it? Beats facing the truth that maybe all us fat couch potatoes actually got off our arse's and voted.
Oh, thats right those elections were stolen, damn and to think I stood in line for three hours, for nothing! That burns my butt!
Excuse me a second...................... had to remove my brain from the washer! I would think that with our puppet leading your country that you wouldn't have time to worry about what our corrupt government is doing.
But you Limey's have always had a fascination with this warmongering society across the pound ever since you gave us our freedom, oh sorry, I meant non-freedom! Thought I was defending freedom in Vietnam, had a few Limey buds there that felt the same way, damn and too think all this time I been fooling myself. Gee wait till I go tell all the guys at the wall. Hey all you dumb bastards died for nothing, we weren't free to begin with. Had a few Limey Buds fighting with me in several campaigns including Desert Storm. Damn good blokes I thought, helluva good fighters. Thought we were fighting for Kuwaiti freedom. Damn it is really upsetting to now be told that I am not free and never have been free. It's probably all an illusion. Does this mean that I have to give back my Silver Star and Purple Heart? After all I wasn't even free so I guess I wasn't fighting for freedom, then it must all have been just a bad dream. Damn those corporations, whoops better not say that too loud. Might loose my cushy job. Then I wouldn't be able to pay for my 2100 sq ft home or my $36,000 car, bloody hell.

The United States is a paper tiger??? The United States is the world's only SuperPower, You think we cant beat Iran? It would not even be a challenge, we only attack nations that threaten us or declare war on us.

And what is with your ranting on about our society? check out the society of the middle east then come and talk about our way of life.

Why don't you ask the British, Germans, Japanese, Iraqis, Afghanis, or the Soviets if the United States is a paper tiger.

[edit on 24-3-2005 by WestPoint23]

Originally posted by Ishes
Good post Siroos!

It’s nice to see you put effort into your post, unlike many of the replies that you’ve been given. I agree with your notion that Iran have a good chance of beating the US when it comes to war. I don’t want to give a definite opinion on who I think would win, because I really don’t know. Any no-one does at all until it actually happens. Either way, there will be HUGE bloodshed on both parts, naturally the Iranians will loose more people than the American’s, but I feel that American public support will waver for the war, when they realise how many troops they have lost, and hopefully the American people will wake up and call for a their sons, daughters, fathers and mothers to be pulled out of the war before they too are killed, war is hell.

I don’t see America being a world player for too much longer though, 20 years, tops. There average American is undereducated, misinformed, suffering for a variety of illnesses (being pumped full of prescription drugs as a result), poor, and eats badly (getting fatter every day). A platoon of obese Americans in live combat, hah! I dread to think what the American children of today will be like when their ready to sign on and be all they can be. You can’t possibly run a country for too long with a population where your average citizen is all of the above. America is also a very materialistic society; many Americans have little-no faith, which in a war situation is a bad thing if you ask me. They go about their days working their jobs to get their next pay check, which doesn’t even get them any luxuries these days. I feel sorry for you.

When the Iran-America conflict does take place, I don’t see much international support for it. The only countries that may support the attack are UK and Australia. Being British myself, I can tell you that our country would NOT support this invasion, the only reason we went to war with Iraq is because Tony Blair is Bush’s little finger puppet. The Labour party has done many good things for our country, but it would be a hell of a lot better off with Gordon Brown at the horns. When the conflict happens, I am wishing that the international community sanctions America, a taste of their own medicine would have a good thing if you ask me.

Now onto a few other matters:

Originally posted by Yorga
Sorry for being so childess but you see I didn't read past the word arrogant in his title. The fact that ATS will allow crap like this to be posted just amazes me. The fact that people read this crap is even more amazing.
If that makes me childess then thank you, I will wear my new title with honor.

The fact that ATS allows people to post crap like that amazes me even more!

Originally posted by Yorga
Yep, got me there ole buddy. I voted for BUSH not once but twice and I would vote for him a third time if he could run. But since I live in a free society then sadly I must say that we will be forced to elected another
zionist/evangelic alliance criminal.

You think you live in a free society? Maaannnnnnnn, you have a lot to learn. I think you need to wake up and smell the coffee (Don’t drink it though, its bad for you!). America is far from free, you just haven’t realised it yet. Your elections are rigged, your country is run by corporations and your brainwashed every day. Do some research my friend, then come back and say again that you live in a free country, I dare you.

Originally posted by WestPoint23
Iran would lose if it was attacked/invaded or even challenged to a game of chess by the U.S.

Our Navy is superior to theirs, our Air Force is superior to theirs, our Army is superior to theirs, did I miss anything? Oh yeah... our soldiers are better trained and equipped then theirs, and I'm proud to say they are happy gunho Americans, so unless you want to meet your Allah don't get n their way. And the U.S. wouldn't even have to do that much in a war with Iran, the terrorists in Iran would be overthrown by their own people, because most of them are pro American.

You sound like a Nazi in World War 2 being spoon fed Hitler’s Crap. ‘Germany will not loose, we have the greatest army etc’. The German people were convinced, in fact there was no way, in their eyes, they could loose the war. What happened? Well unless your really THAT badly educated, let me enlighten you. They lost. Don’t give me any crap of ‘the American’s won WW2’, that’s besides the point. Germany had a very good arms, air force and navy, but they still lost!

Unfortunately I know what’s going to happen in the future, call me a psychic if you want. The American empire (call it what you like) will fall, but the f**kers are going to take as many people as they can with them. Sorry to spoil your ‘field trip’ my yank friends!

Ishes - thank you for your comments on my messages. What you say is so true. America is on its way down the hill very fast! Its the by far most indebted nation in the world. It's just a matter of time before the entire American economy will collapse and with it its super power status, and with that its arrogant cockiness and bullying of other countries. I think that some of the rambos on this board are in self-denial - I think they realize that something is wrong with where the U.S. is heading, but they just will not even admit it to themselves. I also think it's about time that a united front of countries opposed to the agressions of the U.S. is created and that they sign a declaration of protest and submit it to the U.S. Congress and the United Nations. The U.S. has become a big threat to world peace and hell will break loose if it is allowed to go on with its transgressions.

The United States is a paper tiger???

The United States is the world's only SuperPower

US is not much of a superpower anymore. It's quickly losing it's position and power, now that Russia is recovering, India and China are developing and EU is forming. Already US is lagging behind a lot of countries in a whole multitude of demographics.

In terms of military. US will not stand in front of any other world power such as Russia, China and India. I mean come on get real, you've picked on weak countries like Iraq, Afghanistan, Cuba, Kosovo and Vietnam and others. That does not make a superpower. It just makes you a bully.

So, you can get the "superpower" label out of your head. Reality bites.


Siroos, I am not sure if you are in Iran. However, I wish you the best of luck if you are and I hope victory is yours.

[edit on 24-3-2005 by Indigo_Child]

Originally posted by WeBDeviL
LOL!! ^^

Maan..you really do have some animosity in 'ya don't you?

Sure, maybe if it was 4,000 years ago that Iran was going to fight another country, they would be able to hold 'em off.

But get real, dude. It will NOT happen.

You are pretty funny though,

-wD

I wish that I could say that you were funny too, but unfortunately there is nothing funny about arrogance and a fascist attitude and mentality - the best word I can find is that it's tragic. I repeat once again - The U.S. is a big paper tiger. It has only attacked extremely small and weak countries. The U.S. would never get away with Iran what it has gotten away with other countries so far. You don't know Iran and Iranians. Iran will create hell on earth for you - I promise you that!

Originally posted by Siroos
Ishes - thank you for your comments on my messages. What you say is so true. America is on its way down the hill very fast! Its the by far most indebted nation in the world. It's just a matter of time before the entire American economy will collapse and with it its super power status, and with that its arrogant cockiness and bullying of other countries.

Wishful thinking.

If in 10 years none of the crap you're hoping happens to America will you still be harping the same tune or will you admit you're wrong?

I also think it's about time that a united front of countries opposed to the agressions of the U.S. is created and that they sign a declaration of protest and submit it to the U.S. Congress and the United Nations.

Too many countries owe their lives and well being to the US. Too many countries still exsist because of US presence.
This would never happen.

The U.S. has become a big threat to world peace and hell will break loose if it is allowed to go on with its transgressions.

Got any evidence to support anything in that sentence? I don't think so.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

Originally posted by Siroos
WOW! You guys really believe the U.S. is invincible.....

You better prepare yourself for some dissapointment!

?
It's not a matter of thinking the US is invincible. It's stating facts. The US has a stronger army than Iran. The US will not go into Iran like it did Iraq. The US would handle the Iran situation completely different.
If the US were to invade Iran, yeah it'd probably last longer than it took to take Iraq, but they wouldn't "beat" us. That's just reality. No arrogance.
The sky is blue.
Grass is green.

Your reasoning and "logic" does not hold. The U.S. army was supposedly much stronger than the Vietnamese army but you lost big time there! The Soviet army was much, much, much stronger than the primitive Afghan mójaheds, but they too were defeated.... A stronger army is no guarantee. Many other factors play an important role for the outcome of a war. Motivation and determination are some of the most important factors, and believe me when I say that the motivation we Iranians will have to crush you Americans can not be beaten by any other motivation in the history of mankind - it will be our greates pleasure to crush you and end your tyranny.

The U.S. is a paper tiger, that's why it never attacks anything else than small and weak countries.

So....Germany and Japan were weak and small countries?

Your weaponry seems more high-tech than it really is, and your soldiers more efficeint and with a high morale than they really are because of the fact that they have only been tested in wars and attacks against small and weak countries. The moment you attack a country like Iran you will see what I mean!

Iraq's army was just as strong or stronger than Iran's when we attacked during GW1. Why were we successful then?

Seems to me you write a book and after reading it I'm short - pardon please, I'm still having trouble understanding what it is your attempting to TELL everyone.

Perhaps' you can shorten it up and use a short paragraph to bring my knowledge up to speed with yours?

Dallas

Iran will lose in any confrontation with the U.S. Its tat simple! Iran cannot hope to win.

Iran could not win the war with Iraq in the 80's it was going on for years and years. The U.S. defeated Iraq in 9 and again in 03 in a matter of weeks.
So if you could not even defeat Iraq in all those years how do you hope to defeat the U.S. which is hundreds of times stronger than Iraq.

[edit on 24-3-2005 by WestPoint23]

Got any evidence to support anything in that sentence? I don't think so.

What are you blind? What about war mongering, shift to unilateralism and doctrines of pre-emptive war and constant threats from the neo cons promising an American NWO. To attack a country as big as Iran, that is allies with Russia and China. Will definitely, so painfuly obvious, create tensions andn destabaize the world.

So US has indeed become a threat to world peace and is causing many countries the world to weaponize and prepare for wars by US. US is doing exactly what Nazi Germany was doing, drafting a foreign policy based on war. I won't even start on domestic policies. As you are equally blind to that.

[edit on 24-3-2005 by Indigo_Child]

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

Originally posted by Siroos
WOW! You guys really believe the U.S. is invincible.....

You better prepare yourself for some dissapointment!

?
It's not a matter of thinking the US is invincible. It's stating facts. The US has a stronger army than Iran. The US will not go into Iran like it did Iraq. The US would handle the Iran situation completely different.
If the US were to invade Iran, yeah it'd probably last longer than it took to take Iraq, but they wouldn't "beat" us. That's just reality. No arrogance.
The sky is blue.
Grass is green.

The U.S. is a paper tiger, that's why it never attacks anything else than small and weak countries.

So....Germany and Japan were weak and small countries?

We're talking about TODAY not 60 years ago. And the U.S. was not fighting the Germans and the Japanese by themselves they had the more powerful Soviet armies and the British army to help... You can't take all the credit all the time.....

Your weaponry seems more high-tech than it really is, and your soldiers more efficeint and with a high morale than they really are because of the fact that they have only been tested in wars and attacks against small and weak countries. The moment you attack a country like Iran you will see what I mean!

Iraq's army was just as strong or stronger than Iran's when we attacked during GW1. Why were we successful then?

That's just what I was trying to explain in my message - Did you read the whole message? I explained that Iran's military force had been severly decimated by the revolution so that only 30-35% of the Shah's army was intact when Saddam Hussein attacked Iran. That's why he attacked, because he thought Iran was weak and incapable to defend itself. He would never have dared to attack Iran during the reign of the Shah. But the Iranians managed to push the Iraqis out of Iranian territories and then push forwards deep into Iraqi territories and surround the city of Basra. At that point Saddam Hussein used chemical weapons against the Iranians, because it was the only way he could stop them. Iraq was not at all strong and powerful. It might have had the weapons and fighter jets and tanks to suggest that it was militarily powerful, but it had a lowzy army. The Iraqi soldiers were worthless brutes. They were uncivilized and brutal, but totally incompetent combatants. The U.S. knew this very well, otherwise they would never have dared to attack Iraq. This whole thing about the Iraqi military being so powerful was a U.S. propaganda ploy used to create a favorable public opinion in support of the war as well as international support for the war against Iraq, just as they did with their lies about that Iraq had WMD. The Swizz guard of the Vatican State could easily have defeated the Iraqi army. The U.S. is a paper tiger in constant need to create scape goats out of weak and defenseless nations so that it can flex its "muscles". You just wait til the day when the U.S. is forced to face a strong country and you will see how the paper tiger will crumble.

Arrogance shall lead to a downfall. The downfall of Iran whose leaders think they can thumb their noses at the international community and violate their treaty obligations to the major powers with immunity. Iran will fall in a fiery cataclysm as the West becomes united against them.

Originally posted by Indigo_Child

Got any evidence to support anything in that sentence? I don't think so.

What are you blind? What about war mongering, shift to unilateralism and pre-emptive war and constant threats from the neo cons promising an American NWO. To attack a country as big as Iran, that is allies with Russia and China. Will definitely, so painfuly obvious, create tensions destabaize the world.

So US has indeed become a threat to world peace and is causing many countries the world to weaponize and prepare for wars by US. US is doing exactly what Nazi Germany was doing, drafting a foreign policy based on war.

"Where is your evidence" All around you.

1. I can't think of any country that will be willing to go to the war with the US should they airstrike their nuclear facilities.
Maybe I am blind, but I seriously doubt any country will attack the US because of that. It would be horrendously stupid of that country.

2. Name these countries that are "weaponizing" preparing for wars by the US (wars that will more than likely never come, mind you)?
I'm guessing you'll name NK, and Iran...possibly Syria.
Since when do 3 countries = the world? And again, which countries around the world are willing to go to war with the US because we may airstrike a few places in those countries (we're not invading any of these countries if that's what you're thinking)?