Natural Immunity Vs. "Vaccine"--What Works Best?

I asked her a question, if a vaccine was proven to be safe and the virus mutated in such a way that her gained imunity was no longer going to give her protection but the vaccine would then would she then have the vaccine.

When she said no then I asked "so your pretty much anti vaccinations then?"

As in I was looking for her to confirm that she did not agree with vaccines, some people don't. Some people don't agree with any mainstream medicine and choose a purely holistic approach.

I was asking not calling.

originally posted by: rickymouse

originally posted by: nonspecific
Well if she says she wouldn't take a vaccine even if it was proven safe and would benefit her how would you describe that stance?

That's the question I asked if you look back.


Edit. And it was a question I asked.

It had a question mark at the end so that's a question not a statement right?

originally posted by: rickymouse

originally posted by: nonspecific
So I ask for evidence and you turn nasty?

I didn't say you were and anti vaxxer. I asked you if the vaccines were proven safe and your immunity gained from contracting covid 19 became no longer efficient if you would take one and you said no?

If you wouldn't take a proven safe vaccine that would help you against a dangerous virus you had no adequate inherent protection against it seemed you might he against vaccines altogether so I asked?

There's nothing wrong with being against vaccines or modern medicine, some people prefer a fully holistic approach.


a reply to: angelchemuel

Yeah you did say she was an anti-vaxer, if I remember right you told me the same thing somewhere lately and I had to defend my opinion that some but not all the vaccines are needed and that for some the vaccines are dangerous.

I did contact my doctor last week through the porthole and he did send me a message that I should probably not take the vaccine but that I should be cautious and should do social distancing and wear a mask in crowded places.. I will believe my doctor before I believe someone pushing vaccines on the net. He cannot list that I am intolerant to this vaccine like I have for the flu vaccine though, because there is no verified evidence that I had a severe reaction to it like I have for the flu vaccine.

Science shows that a person with natural immunity is well protected, she had it she has immunity. The vaccines can cause side effects and sometimes they can be severe, if you are smart, and you have immunity, you would not take the extra risk when there is no real benefit.

This vaccine has not been proven safe for everyone, they excluded groups of people from the testing and noted it in the research parameters. Some people have no clue that they are in the risk group that was not tested...too much deceit going on...but I read the research exclusions and in actuallity, the FDA is being mute about it when peddling this vaccine, but does list it in some documents on their site.

I read official stuff and do not pay much attention to the crap the vaccine promotors say. Just like I will back the necessity of a vaccine that is ACTUALLY safe NECESSARY and argue with those who are cutting it down without proper evidence. If I get a bad cut, I always get a tetnus shot, but I had problems with the DTAP, but I will stick up for the necessity of the tetnus but not for the DTAP unless the person needs the protection. I got severe whooping cough symptoms from the DTAP, my immune system identified it as a threat of pertusis and the symptoms of pertusis are most often the reaction of your immune system.

If you want to get vaccinated with this vaccine, it is your right, but take note of the actual numbers of adverse reactions, do an informed decision. I know many ways to defend myself against this whimpy virus.

a reply to: nonspecific

The chance of this virus mutating out of natural immunity from getting the virus is way less than the chance of it mutating and getting away from the vaccine immunity. If you study immunity about how natural immunity creates multiple points of recognition instead of just one or two, you would know this. The vaccine bypasses multiple immune functions that protect a person...It only protects people at ninety five percent from getting severe covid and death, probably because of the immune modulating effect of the lipid and the phosphocholine they add to the vaccine mix.

I do not like the way they changed the way they determine effectiveness with this new warp speed crap, the pfizer is supposedly only fifty some percent effective at stopping you from getting the virus. Deceit, not outright lies are being told, they changed the rules of the way they evaluate things.

So how come flu jabs are done every year?

Is it a different type of virus altogether or is the vaccine different in it's approach?

originally posted by: rickymouse
a reply to: nonspecific

The chance of this virus mutating out of natural immunity from getting the virus is way less than the chance of it mutating and getting away from the vaccine immunity. If you study immunity about how natural immunity creates multiple points of recognition instead of just one or two, you would know this. The vaccine bypasses multiple immune functions that protect a person...It only protects people at ninety five percent from getting severe covid and death, probably because of the immune modulating effect of the lipid and the phosphocholine they add to the vaccine mix.

I do not like the way they changed the way they determine effectiveness with this new warp speed crap, the pfizer is supposedly only fifty some percent effective at stopping you from getting the virus. Deceit, not outright lies are being told, they changed the rules of the way they evaluate things.

My entire family has been vaccinated, including my 16 & 19 year old daughters.

My 16 year old went to a large church camp in Illinois (not any of the reported ones in the news) and a bunch of the adults and students came back with COVID. Typically, those who were sick (even if symptoms were identical to covid) and who had the vaccine, covid tests came back negative. Those who were sick and didn't have the vaccine, tests all came back positive.

It appears that those with the vaccine, had a faster recovery from covid than those without it.

My daughter, who hung out with one girl the entire 6 hour bus ride there, and back, and the entire time there, never had any symptoms, even though her BFF who was unvaccinated got hit hard with it.

Everyone, to my knowledge, has recovered, although some did lose smell/taste which still persist. One adult who was vaccinated, lost smell and taste for a few days but then got it back. Again, her test was negative as well.

a reply to: IAMTAT

As soon as you said "China Virus" you lost me! And get this I am all on board what is the difference?

Yet you cite no documentation is this purely speculative? Or more right-wing nut job agenda? I say that cause when we play poker you have the best tell! I love it like a dog whistle facts or not who hoping to convince the echo circle jerk chamber? In the words of one of yours "Mission Accomplished".

originally posted by: ShortBus
My entire family has been vaccinated, including my 16 & 19 year old daughters.

My 16 year old went to a large church camp in Illinois (not any of the reported ones in the news) and a bunch of the adults and students came back with COVID. Typically, those who were sick (even if symptoms were identical to covid) and who had the vaccine, covid tests came back negative. Those who were sick and didn't have the vaccine, tests all came back positive.

It appears that those with the vaccine, had a faster recovery from covid than those without it.

My daughter, who hung out with one girl the entire 6 hour bus ride there, and back, and the entire time there, never had any symptoms, even though her BFF who was unvaccinated got hit hard with it.

Everyone, to my knowledge, has recovered, although some did lose smell/taste which still persist. One adult who was vaccinated, lost smell and taste for a few days but then got it back. Again, her test was negative as well.

Church camp and Covid Vaccinated are you Christian? LOL Kidding...

Ah that last part so someone who was vaccinated also was infected...interesting.

originally posted by: nonspecific
So how come flu jabs are done every year?

Is it a different type of virus altogether or is the vaccine different in it's approach?

originally posted by: rickymouse
a reply to: nonspecific

The chance of this virus mutating out of natural immunity from getting the virus is way less than the chance of it mutating and getting away from the vaccine immunity. If you study immunity about how natural immunity creates multiple points of recognition instead of just one or two, you would know this. The vaccine bypasses multiple immune functions that protect a person...It only protects people at ninety five percent from getting severe covid and death, probably because of the immune modulating effect of the lipid and the phosphocholine they add to the vaccine mix.

I do not like the way they changed the way they determine effectiveness with this new warp speed crap, the pfizer is supposedly only fifty some percent effective at stopping you from getting the virus. Deceit, not outright lies are being told, they changed the rules of the way they evaluate things.

The flu vaccine is completely different technology than the mRNA vaccines. The problem with the flu vaccine is it is mutating outside of the estimated direction the scientists predict it will go. If the flu vaccine is fifty percent effective, it could mean that two of the four types of virus vaccines it contains are mismatched. If they were given seperate, maybe two of the four would get a zero effective rate, but the other two would give a ninety five percent rate. Zero rate sounds really bad for a vaccine. So I figure they combine them. If one of the bird flu ones doesn't work at all, they can say that the vaccine has a seventy seven percent rate when there are four of them in one shot.

You know that trying to talk someone into taking the jab is the same as trying to talk them out of taking it. It is giving medical advice when you apply it to them. If you say that You took it and had no side effects, you are just giving your experience with it, that is not giving medical advice. I tell people why I cannot take it and my personal opinion of this vaccine, I do not directly try to persuade anyone to not take it, it is their personal choice and I am only here to try to supply information on it so people can make an informed decision. I will not try to convince anyone not to take medical treatment or to deny taking it.....not even my kids and their grandkids. I even give them the pros and cons of the treatment and dietary changes that can help the need to not take treatments. Even my kids make their own choices, they are adults already, it is their life, not mine.

I'm not trying to tell anyone totake the vaccine in the same way you are not telling anyone not to.

I think we both just want people to be as safe as they can and in order for that to happen they need real and quantifiable data and true information.

It's the manipulation of statistics on both sides that concerns me.



a reply to: rickymouse

You have just by way of anecdote described exactly how the vaccine works.

It's not a wonder drug and is far from perfect but it alters the effects of the virus on people and that's what we need.

Less illness, less hospitalisations, less long term Heald effects.

I think that's the best we can how for right now.

originally posted by: ShortBus
My entire family has been vaccinated, including my 16 & 19 year old daughters.

My 16 year old went to a large church camp in Illinois (not any of the reported ones in the news) and a bunch of the adults and students came back with COVID. Typically, those who were sick (even if symptoms were identical to covid) and who had the vaccine, covid tests came back negative. Those who were sick and didn't have the vaccine, tests all came back positive.

It appears that those with the vaccine, had a faster recovery from covid than those without it.

My daughter, who hung out with one girl the entire 6 hour bus ride there, and back, and the entire time there, never had any symptoms, even though her BFF who was unvaccinated got hit hard with it.

Everyone, to my knowledge, has recovered, although some did lose smell/taste which still persist. One adult who was vaccinated, lost smell and taste for a few days but then got it back. Again, her test was negative as well.

a reply to: dragonridr

Oh, I definitely agree. mRNA tech, along with stuff like DRACO broad-spectrum anti-virals & CRISPR, have amazing potential!

But this is idealism, right?

Its be like talking about nuclear energy without mentioning nuclear weapons or events like Chernobyl or Fukushima.

Sure, there is amazing potential there. In fact, I believe modular, ultra-safe nuclear is probably a big part of the future. And thats a good thing! But its disingenuous, at best, to extol the virtues of these tools without also mentioning (and preparing for) potential harm.

It also doesnt mean its prudent to completely eschew these possibilities because it might "spread fear." That all sounds like barely veiled corporate marketing to me.

I agree with you on the testing. Effective data collection is always at the root of building a proper picture of what is going on with anything, and we never had that with SARS-CoV-2.

Similarly to the above though, it is irresponsible to just assume the data we are collecting actually builds the correct picture or that there is no potential for abuse or harm. The former has become a serious problem, where actual data trail integrity is somehow determined by the presence of data at all. Obviously, that isnt how it should work, but that is how it plays out in many respects. Including with individuals and organizations that should absolutely know better.

a reply to: Serdgiam

Yes, there could be dangers involved if you want to kill people. You could indeed manufacture a virus that only kills certain people for example. But your only hope of stopping it would be the same technology. So if a bad actor did create a super virus your only defense is to create a vaccine. The problem is i can see in the future it will get easier and easier to prevent the spread as this technology matures. What now takes months will be down to days or even hours.

originally posted by: nonspecific
I'm not trying to tell anyone totake the vaccine in the same way you are not telling anyone not to.

I think we both just want people to be as safe as they can and in order for that to happen they need real and quantifiable data and true information.

It's the manipulation of statistics on both sides that concerns me.



a reply to: rickymouse

Yes, both sides are manipulating or parroting misinformation by misinterpretation of statistics and evidence. The sad part is that many of these people are so stuck on their beliefs that they cannot figure out what the evidence really says.

a reply to: dragonridr

Overall I agree.

However, my bigger concern is not necessarily nefarious intent. Thats only one potential detrimental scenario, and Im fairly certain that weaponized biological agents and weaponized treatments will play some role in the future.

Its when people dont want to kill people but it still happens, that is an exceptionally relevant aspect to the development of any tool. Its why I included Chernobyl and Fukushima. Due to either mistakes on our part, "nature" smacking our hubris down a notch (or two or three), or some mix of two, we can run into just as many issues with deleterious effects.

What you describe seems rooted in the notion that humanity is competent enough to take over our immune systems from the natural processes that have evolved over millions of years.

I do not believe we are, and that may be a fundamental disagreement. I believe we have completely overlooked several critical factors in the pursuit of novel and profitable patents. In doing so, we have crippled our natural immune systems ability to deal with many things and it does go beyond just the medical field. I think we still are in a position to turn that boat around though. And, creating a society where our very survival and existence as a species is dependent on corporate products is.. concerning to me, to say the least.

It seems today that the standards have been lowered so much that what is produced is mostly crap.

The people running the medicine , hospitals and government are no longer the best and brightest or the most qualified

They are there for what ever lower standard reason.

College professors are a joke today
Scary enough but hospitals and he drs and nurses have become very incompetent.

What you describe seems rooted in the notion that humanity is competent enough to take over our immune systems from the natural processes that have evolved over millions of years.

a reply to: Serdgiam


I see your fear however a lot of testing goes into this. It is much more likely a lab in say south Korea invents a bioweapon.

Now this doesn't do away with our immune system its literally the opposite it uses our own immune systems to heal us. As you said it's been around for hundreds of thousands of years and can be effective. Instead of finding a drug we have your body produce what's needed for your immune system to kill the virus. Now let's say they make a mistake and get it wrong then your body produced antigens for a virus that doesn't exist. Other than allergic reactions from shot ingredients the antigens aren't going to hurt you they just won't help you either.

Have we not pretty much already done that though?

I can't see us surviving without the global infrastructure we have been n place now.

Not on any capacity at any rate.

originally posted by: Serdgiam
a reply to: dragonridr


creating a society where our very survival and existence as a species is dependent on corporate products is.. concerning to me, to say the least.

originally posted by: IAMTAT
There is an article, tied to research, circulating...which claims that naturally-acquired immunity from having recovered from the China Virus...is 6-7X more effective towards preventing future CV infections than any claimed immunity acquired from the so-called China Virus "vaccine(s)".

Judging by how many people are 'catching' it and getting sick even after being fully jabbed, I'd have to say natural immunity is probably much more effective than 6-7x - just like it is with everything else.

Furthermore, it's been suggested that people who have recovered from China Virus...and then taken the "vaccines", will actually reduce the natural immunity they have already established.

Could explain the push to not just ignore natural immunity, but irrationally demand even those with it get the jabs.

Fixing your broken/lazy quoting is getting tiring...

originally posted by: nonspecific
a reply to: Serdgiam
Have we not pretty much already done that though?

I can't see us surviving without the global infrastructure we have been n place now.

Not on any capacity at any rate.

We were well on our way to doing just that with Trumps MAGA policies, that have been demolished in the first 6 months of O'Biden's insurrectionist regime.

Don't fix it then?

Master trump was working towards a world without a global infrastructure was he?

I'd say I'm baffled by this statement but that doesn't really cover it.


a reply to: tanstaafl

Still tired of fixing your broken/lazy quotes...

originally posted by: nonspecific
a reply to: tanstaafl
Master trump was working towards a world without a global infrastructure was he?

Unsurprising that you respond to something that obviously wasn't said in order to try to maintain your false/fake presumptions/perceptions.

Tell me... does TDS hurt?

I'd say I'm baffled by this statement but that doesn't really cover it.

It is quite simple, actually. I didn't say what you attempt to attribute to my words.

You said:

I can't see us surviving without the global infrastructure we have been n place now.

I responded that we were well on our way - to thriving much less just surviving - because of Trump's MAGA policies.

Your extreme lack of reading/comprehension skills thought I was saying that Trump was doing away with 'the global infrastructure', which is obviously not what I said.

Hint: learn to read with comprehension and discernment.