Did you know the Middle Class is getting Welfare Benefit

No, neither did I.
Well apparently we do.

qz.com...

What some people do not realize is that wealthier people get welfare too. In fact, tens of millions of Americans who are either middle-class or affluent get generous government benefits.
The government delivers these additional welfare benefits through tax breaks. And for Americans who are in the middle or upper class, getting government benefits is typically easy and reliable.

A well-off family may qualify for the mortgage-interest deduction because of the size of their loan and their income. They might get tax-free health insurance coverage or at least the opportunity to spend pre-tax dollars on their health insurance premiums through their job.

This is what is wrong with the US.
We love to compare things that aren't really comparable.
If I give someone an orange for free that is not the same as giving someone a ten cent discount on an apple they pay a premium price for.
Unfortunately, a lot of people do think it's the same.

This whole article just disgusts me. It goes on to say that there are so many time consuming steps to get benefits. You know what else is time consuming?.. WORK!

The actual article is hypocritical too, it says for poor people paperwork is complicated, but at the same time:

To get these benefits, you might have to fill out a form or check a box, but that’s it. Like clockwork, cash arrives or your tax bills are much lower than they’d otherwise be.

So which is it, easy or hard?

This part really disturbed me too

If, during that inspection, a caseworker sees something she thinks signals child neglect, like an empty refrigerator or a broken stove, the next person at the door could be from your local child protective services agency. If the caseworker does not like what she sees, she has the power to take your children away, and they could end up in foster care.

YES if you have zero food in the house, you should not be able to have or take care of kids!

Man, we are setting the bar so low it's practically touching the floor these days...

a reply to: JAGStorm

Yeah that is bull.

401K is now a welfare benefit... well you know what, I would gladly trade my 401K for .gov retirement pension and medical benefits. There is some life long welfare!

Mortgage deduction now welfare? Well, everyone generally qualifies for that. These "tax breaks" are not new and have been around for decades.

How about the part where I actually give money to the government at the end of the year? I do. I have to actually pay taxes, not just fill out a form and get told how much money the government gives back to me.

And that's despite all the so-called welfare.

And now at my job we're working chronically short-handed so I couldn't use my PTO with a clear conscience if I wanted to because I know what kind of lurch it leaves because the government is busy using money from that tax liability to feed everyone extra unemployment money and money just for having spawned kids. So I'm working so other people can stay just comfortable enough that they feel they don't need to.

a reply to: JAGStorm

How dare you actually work and earn stuff, and how dare you think you're better for doing it?

You would hate my accountant.

He know's every (legal) trick in the book and I would be dumb to not utilize his help. It's money burned otherwise.

Here, if you're not after your tax, you can count on the state pulling you over the desk. They generally take too much tax upfront and count on people not doing their tax reports. I think it's not much different in the USA and elsewhere. The system is setup so those that actually care, can get benefits.

I could do it myself, it's not that complicated but if you want to max out tax returns, you need someone that navigates all the laws and procedures.

Consider that a good portion of the money they get back through tax was theirs originally and you are the one leaving money on the counter for the state.






Add: The article is infuriating though.

a reply to: JAGStorm

I don't know what "middle class" YOU live in, but this middle class ain't getting S*t!

The REAL thing going on is ROBBING the middle class, because it's the last bastion of wealth yet to be stolen by the robber barons!!!!!

a reply to: infolurker

Whoa ... 401k is NOT a welfare benefit. People with 401k's actually worked to earn those accounts.

Any fool, like myself included, who has a 401k is gambling that the government is going to even let you 'keep' it at the end of the day, if you live long enough to retire. Before that, they take huge penalties for 'early withdrawal', and at some point they could force a 401k holder to buy treasuries, or liquidate and be taxed, if they don't want to buy treasuries. Treasuries are not what they used to be, considering how 'broke' the federal government of the US has become. You are the government's stooge if you have a 401k. I am one ... no doubt, but all my retirement isn't locked in a 401k, be assured. I like the idea of having a 401k, and my employer makes it tough to refuse, BUT all my eggs are not in any one basket, and I recommend for everyone to keep other options, if you may. If you are middle class, they are coming for you, regardless, and most likely from multiple directions.

originally posted by: JAGStorm
No, neither did I.
Well apparently we do.

qz.com...

What some people do not realize is that wealthier people get welfare too. In fact, tens of millions of Americans who are either middle-class or affluent get generous government benefits.
The government delivers these additional welfare benefits through tax breaks. And for Americans who are in the middle or upper class, getting government benefits is typically easy and reliable.

A well-off family may qualify for the mortgage-interest deduction because of the size of their loan and their income. They might get tax-free health insurance coverage or at least the opportunity to spend pre-tax dollars on their health insurance premiums through their job.

This is what is wrong with the US.
We love to compare things that aren't really comparable.
If I give someone an orange for free that is not the same as giving someone a ten cent discount on an apple they pay a premium price for.
Unfortunately, a lot of people do think it's the same.

This whole article just disgusts me. It goes on to say that there are so many time consuming steps to get benefits. You know what else is time consuming?.. WORK!

The actual article is hypocritical too, it says for poor people paperwork is complicated, but at the same time:

To get these benefits, you might have to fill out a form or check a box, but that’s it. Like clockwork, cash arrives or your tax bills are much lower than they’d otherwise be.

So which is it, easy or hard?

This part really disturbed me too

If, during that inspection, a caseworker sees something she thinks signals child neglect, like an empty refrigerator or a broken stove, the next person at the door could be from your local child protective services agency. If the caseworker does not like what she sees, she has the power to take your children away, and they could end up in foster care.

YES if you have zero food in the house, you should not be able to have or take care of kids!

Man, we are setting the bar so low it's practically touching the floor these days...

There are 5 siblings in my family with at the time one working parent and that income alone was good enough to at least put popcorn on a Friday night's table. No one ever visited our home.
The govt. people have become the friend of the State and the innocent people have become the enemy of the State.

a reply to: JAGStorm
I clicked on the link for Section 8 housing.

There was a 2 question survey to determine likely qualification:

Currently: renting
Income: Very low

Results were: "Based upon your answers, you probably do not qualify.

My money manager wanted to know why I put so much money in the bank every month when I get paid but didn't have any there? What money??

a reply to: pthena
Hey pthena!

It's easy to explain. You do not own property that you pay taxes on, so you're not in the situation to get any back. Your income is low, so there's not a lot of taxes you had to pay, so you're not in the situation to get any back.

I run two distinct business, three if we're nitpicking. The state taxes me upfront. They look at last year and if I am making more = more tax for them, they come and open up their bags for me to throw taxmoney in it, don't you worry.

But if I do less and do nothing taxwise, the state taxes me just like I did the same amount this year. If I don't get active on tax reports and had an accountant, it could be that I loose money, because the state overtaxes me by a big margin.

Imagine you have a bad year and then the state comes and taxes you for quadrupple the amount of money, would you just say "OK! here is the money I didn't even make, but I take a credit so I can be a good citizen and pay these taxes that I really don't need to" - or would you get back the money that is originally yours?

That was just the income tax as an example.

a reply to: JAGStorm

OMG the horrors!!!

I can't starve my kids and get away with it?

Why not?

You should have gave me more money!!!

Work? WTF for?

You do the work chump, and we'll have someone write up the pittance you get back in taxes as welfare!!!

F that.

My well is fare...tyvm

I have nothing against assistance, but don't try shaming me when I get a small percentage of my taxes back.

a reply to: ThatDamnDuckAgain

It's been about 25 years since I've been a paid tax preparer, so not sure how accurate this may be, but:

In the U.S. the business owners make their own estimate and pay their estimated tax in quarterly. End of the year, if they paid in a substantially lower amount than required then there are penalties added to what they owe.

But anyway, the article was making the point that seriously poor people must go through long, drawn out, onerous, and shame inducing process to get assistance.

I'm not bad off at the moment, but there was a time when I was paying 120% of my income to rent. Those were some lean and hungry times. So I went to an office to apply for food stamps. They wanted me to produce a current receipt for rent paid. I said "I don't have this month's receipt because I bought some food."

The lady said, "I'm sorry, but you don't qualify."

Anyway, that was a long time ago. Now I'm fine. But this guy that I rent a room from is dating this woman who is pressing pretty hard for some sort of matrimony. If that happens, then it could be pthena: SOL.

That's why I clicked the Section 8. That's the housing assistance through HUD (Housing and Urban Development).

I thought it was common knowledge that you can write off mortgage interest, insurance is pre tax, 401k is pre tax and you can write off losses you incurred on equities (3k a year).

Furthermore, these aren't benefits only for the rich. My first job paid me 11.25 an hour and I got all these same benefits. Yes I bought a house in Wisconsin making 11.25 an hour. It was a piece of crap and I literally didn't do anything fun in my 20's.

This article is straight garbage.

I’m tired of lazy people that put zero effort in on life bitch about people investing in their 401k and calling it welfare. By the way you don’t have to be middle class to invest in a 401k. Unsure why that has to be explained.

originally posted by: Middleoftheroad
I’m tired of lazy people that put zero effort in on life bitch about people investing in their 401k and calling it welfare. By the way you don’t have to be middle class to invest in a 401k. Unsure why that has to be explained.

Our grad gift to my oldest nephew was to stake him into an ACORNS account. We made the offer, explained what it was, how it worked, etc., and then said we would stake him in if sounded like something he would be interested in. If he said no, we'd look for something more traditional.

But ACORN is basically a baby investment/savings account. You can build enough to roll into your own IRAs given time.

a reply to: ketsuko

I actually did something similar. I gave my son a choice, a coinbase account to invest in crypto or one of your standard investment accounts. He chose crypto so we will see how that turns out.

originally posted by: Middleoftheroad
a reply to: ketsuko

I actually did something similar. I gave my son a choice, a coinbase account to invest in crypto or one of your standard investment accounts. He chose crypto so we will see how that turns out.

He can roll some into crypto later on if he chooses. Husband is playing a bit with it, but we neither one felt secure enough in our understanding to go that route, not for something like that. The market is more understandable at present.

a reply to: pthena
Yes I read the article and I agree with the OP about it.

I just disagree with the idea it's benefits for free though. For example the EV supercharger station I let built and the transformer station necessary for it, I paid it but there's a tax return as an incentive. So I get back the 19% tax as a incentive to build up EV infrastructure. On top of the money for the charger and the station, the installation costs were paid by me, material, cranes, working time and that's far more than the 19% tax return. I would not have done it, if not for the return, because ROI.

Still need to maintain the transformer and the equipment on my own cost, if I didn't invest in a solar array before, the ROI would be almost zero. In this case the tax return is incentive for people like me that invest into infrastructure, without it no sane private person would do it.

Again, these benefits are not free money handed out in most of the cases, it was taxed already.

I know lean and hungry times, too. That's why I poured the amount of litecoin I had before the rush in Spring into a fiduciary fund I set up to support families in need with focus on families that care for orphan children. And therefor I have zero remorse about talking about my Tycan because I pour more private money into charity than I get back tax returns.

a reply to: ThatDamnDuckAgain

Just a few days ago I donated a substantial amount to a charitable hospital that specializes in Orthopedics for children, mostly spinal for Scoliosis and such. The U.S. is sort of deficient when it comes to medical care for underinsured people. That's very high up there in reasons for personal bankruptcy, medical bills.

The Child Tax Credit would do a lot of good for children. That's what the article is about. It's a pitch from the author for a reason that the Child Tax Credit should be made permanent.

The federal government spent about $1.3 trillion on these tax breaks in 2020, according to the Center for Budget and Policy Priorities. That think tank estimates that this totaled more than the combined cost of Medicaid and Medicare and around four times the approximately $364 million the government spent in 2020 on food assistance, housing aid and income support combined.

Permanently expanding the child tax credit along the lines of this year-long measure would cost the government about an estimated $160 billion annually over the next decade.

The tax breaks are being compared with tax credits.

I wish that I could donate more but I've got to keep a cushion of funds, because if worse comes to pass, I may end up in the situation of paying 120% of my income for rent alone. Lean and hungry times again while going through the long drawn out, onerous, and humiliating process of getting some assistance.

So yeah, I don't pay income tax at the present time but I did a fair share (in my estimation) back in the day. I don't resent it. It's for the Country and for the Children.