Roswell the final verdict

I believe they are real; but how did they really die? Did one one them live who was the 5th one?

a reply to: andy06shake

Agreed.

Not many people know the Vatican has a big ol' scope in Arizona named Lucifer.

Imagine that.

Roswell is 100% true. There is a video/transcript of President Ronal Reagan getting briefed.

Transcript/video of a classified tape recording made at Camp David, Maryland during a presidential briefing regarding the subject of UNIDENTIFIED FLYING OBJECTS and EXTRATERRESTRIAL VISITATION of EARTH. President RONALD REAGAN was present. The event occurred between March 6 and 8, 1981.

(I'm trying to post it all but is WAYYYYY too long.)

Here is just a SHORT 'passage' from it...

The "Caretaker" is briefing Fmr. President Ronald Reagan for the first time.

"The CARETAKER: The United States of America has been visited by Extraterrestrial Visitors since 1947. We have proof of that. However, we also have some proof that Earth has been visited for many THOUSANDS OF YEARS by various races of Extraterrestrial Visitors. Mr President, I’ll just refer to those visits as ETs. In July, 1947, a remarkable event occurred in New Mexico. During a storm, two ET spacecraft crashed. One crashed southwest of Corona, New Mexico and one crashed near Datil, New Mexico. The U.S. Army eventually found both sites and recovered all of the debris and one live Alien. I’ll refer to this live Alien as “EBE 1.”

a reply to: EdisonintheFM

Aye they are watching for Wormwood are they not.

The Large Binocular Telescope sitting atop Mount Graham is quite the piece of kit or so im lead to believe.

Not that i place much stock in organised religious practice, but there's pearls of wisdom to be had now and again.

Obviously looking for something.

a reply to: holydarkness


If they truly believed it was an alien spacecraft would easily pass "lie detector" tests as they were not trying to be deceptive

Have to remember area around Roswell was in the 1940's and 50's was the center of the cutting edge for nuclear and space research

It was the HQ for the 509th Composite Group, at the time the only nuclear capable aircraft in the world

Project Mogul - means of detecting nuclear detonations using high altitude balloons was being run un the area

www.roswellfiles.com...

Mogul used number of balloons linked to together, a balloon train, to carry barometric and acoustical detector into the stratosphere to detect distant nuclear detonations aka Soviet

It actually worked and were able to detect nuclear explosions in the South Pacific, at Bikini and Eniwetok

Problem was that is was unwieldy and difficult to control Balloons often broke away and crash

Matches perfectly with the debris recovered by Mack Brazel and seen by Jessie Marcel

After all we know that alien spacecraft are built from scraps of rubber, sticks and foil , but mogul balloons were

Based on the above, it appeared likely that the debris found by the rancher and was subsequently identified as a "flying disc" by personnel from Roswell AAF was, with a great degree of certainty, MOGUL flight no. 4, launched on June 4, 1947. This conclusion was based on the following:

1. Descriptions of the debris provided by Brazel, Cavitt, Crary's diary, and the photos of the material displayed in General Ramey's office. These materials were consistent with the components of a MOGUL service flight, with neoprene balloons, parchment parachutes, plastic ballast tubes, corner reflectors, a sonabuoy, and a black electronics box that housed the pressure cutoff switch (Atch 3).

2. According to Brazel's July 8 statement, the debris was recovered on June 14, obviously eliminating any balloons launched in July.

a reply to: holydarkness

They used the most advanced AI lie detection software in the world and proved jessie marcell and countless others were telling the truth

The truth as they believed .
That is natural .

originally posted by: beyondknowledge
A machine intelligence looked at some facial expressions and came to conclusion that they believe what they are saying.

I find this no proof of anything.

The Roswell Report published by the USAF 1994-1995 already includes an affidavit from Irving Newton confirming that Jesse Marcel believed the wreckage he recovered had alien writing on it. So we didn't actually need a lie detector test to say Marcel believed it, and no lie detector test is 100% reliable anyway. I think this demonstrates Marcel believed it was alien writing:


The same report also includes this photo of Marcel with the "alien" wreckage that Newton recognized, but nobody else on the base did because it wasn't used in the area...only Newton had seen this type of target used elsewhere, so in some sense it was "alien" to everyone on the base except Newton.

a reply to: ForteanOrg

I am not questioning the workings of AI. I am questioning the whole use of the AI. It cannot tell if the information being stated is a lie as long as the person believes it is the truth. It woild say I am telling the truth when I say the sky is green as long as I believed the sky is green. A human on the other hand, would say that is a lie, the sky is blue.

The use of an AI or any other lie detector is irrelevant in this matter. Those that beleive in a statement, even though it is not true, are found to be telling the truth.

As far as the actual witness statments go, I have no reason not to believe them as to what they saw.

I think this is a coverup and the whole four part series is actually just another way to introduce doubt into the masses on this subject. The same company aired that fake mermaid documentry years ago. Why should we trust Discovery on a dacumentry of anything? They started good but are now just entertainment.

originally posted by: Arbitrageur

The same report also includes this photo of Marcel with the "alien" wreckage that Newton recognized, but nobody else on the base did because it wasn't used in the area...only Newton had seen this type of target used elsewhere, so in some sense it was "alien" to everyone on the base except Newton.

Exactly. The debris was ordered to be flown to the Eighth Air Force Headquarters at Forth Worth because they had a weather officer on hand that could positively identify what was found. Irving Newton was that officer and identified the debris as a weather balloon and radar reflectors.

While the Army Air Force was using the same time tested and proven weather balloon method, Project Mogul needed balloons to reach higher altitudes, to stay aloft for longer periods of time, and needed radar reflectors/targets strengthened to handle those heights. One was designed for carrying temporary weather measuring equipment the other for listening devices to record Soviet nuclear weapon tests.

When interviewed in 1994, Charles Moore, Mogul NYU Project engineer and head of balloon design and launches said:

... No, we were doing something that was unorthodox, using targets that, as far as I know, had not been flown before in New Mexico. There's no way that the rancher could have ever seen one. And there's no way that either Major Marcel nor General Ramey or General Ramey's people could have come up with providing a radar to substitute for the real debris. I think there's a very high likelihood that the unusual things we were doing provided this debris.

I don't think it's anything more than entertainment.

Discovery is not science oriented anymore.

TLC used to be "The Learning Channel". now it's just another entertainment channel, along with food channel, HBO, Cartoon Network, CNN and TBS (Plus a few more I can't remember).

One big blanket company.

And Nick Pope is involved in this show. Not bad going considering he told us to move on from Roswell, he said it was dead.

www.ufodigest.com...

Lot of $$$ in all these shows I would say.

a reply to: TexasTruth

"I was in the pool! I was in the pool"!...and..."Its pipes! All pipes"!

There is no ufo show or revea that I havent heard about...and know the info at hand.

All these shows...and nothing new. 60+ years of following "reveals"...and little new ever.

I read the "special ufo reveals etc .."...and see nothing new on average ..

Even Ancient Aliens marked new 2021..are re-editing old shows w minimim of added narration.

They spent millions creating those...and will forever edit them...to protect the investment.

a reply to: Chris42393

Was it Reagan or Carter that said they, and their wife, saw a UFO while riding in a car one night?

Geez let me stop being lazy....

Reagan did.

And so did Carter.

Huh, didn't know both had.

Well let's use our own intelligence. Roswell at that time was home to the 509th operation group, virtually the only ones with use of nuclear weapons. Now you have their intelligence officer a Major Jesse Marcell and in his important position, they are trying to tell me that he did not know that the supposed debris was earth manufactured, no matter what it was used for.
Then you must ask yourself why, just why would they fly such insubstantial material to any other airbase when you can clearly see the debris shown in the photograph is of such flimsy material. Anyway, Marcells death bed confession he said that photograph was staged and it was not of the debris found. Then, as other investigators have found out ALL the weather/Mogul arrays were accounted for.

originally posted by: EdisonintheFM
a reply to: Chris42393

Was it Reagan or Carter that said they, and their wife, saw a UFO while riding in a car one night?

Geez let me stop being lazy....

Reagan did.

And so did Carter.

Huh, didn't know both had.

Neither one of them "saw a UFO while riding in a car", Reagan was in a plane and Carter was standing on the ground. We still don't know what Reagan saw, but a man claims to have identified what Carter saw:

Jimmy Carter UFO incident

I am virtually certain that I have identified the source of what it was that President Carter saw.

Spoiler, it wasn't aliens either, like most other reported UFOs, it turned out to be either something manmade, or natural phenomena.

originally posted by: crayzeed
Well let's use our own intelligence...
Then you must ask yourself why, just why would they fly such insubstantial material to any other airbase when you can clearly see the debris shown in the photograph is of such flimsy material.

OK, I'm waiting for you to do so. Maybe you want to try again after you read Irving Newton's affidavit I posted about 8 posts before your post. He talks about why it was going to be flown for analysis, and why according to him, after he identified the material, he heard Ramey tell someone to cancel the flight. A reply by Ectoplasm8 clarified further.

Anyway, Marcells death bed confession he said that photograph was staged and it was not of the debris found.

Marcel contradicted himself, once saying the debris he was pictured with was the actual debris, and another time saying it wasn't the actual debris. So the best we can make of this contradiction is that he's not a reliable witness, changing his story.

Then, as other investigators have found out ALL the weather/Mogul arrays were accounted for.

Maybe it was a Mogul service flight, not a regular Mogul flight.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I think Charles Moore summed it up in his affidavit:

I can think of no other explanation for Roswell than one of our early June service flight balloons.

a reply to: crayzeed

Yeah, use our own intelligence and maybe toss in some simple common sense. I'm still waiting for the acknowledgment by believers in this case that a craft designed to travel the cosmos happened to be made up of small sticks, foil-like material, and rubber exactly like the material construction of balloon and radar targets that were being launched 90 miles south of Roswell in July 1947 exactly in this time period of the "alien craft" crash. Not to mention a true Mogul flight 5 crashed just outside of Roswell on July 5 1947. Flights were trending towards Roswell.

This is a drawing I made in my Roswell thread that visually shows how close in proximity the crash site was and how close the crash Mogul flight #5 was:

a reply to: Ectoplasm8
Please read again. Marcell stated the debris in the photograph was not the debris found. it was put forward to debunk the original story. Again ALL mogul flights were recovered, non were missing to explain this debris. And I'll say again, it's stretches incredulity that the main intelligence officer of a very serious and important group could not recognise Earth made material.

Despite all the back and forth on this over the years, there are still two things that cant be explained:

1) How can people, both military and civilian, who routinely witnessed weather balloons being launched from that base have mistaken a crash site they were standing in the middle of for pieces of a weather balloon?

and

2) Why on Earth would a military base issue a +*+*+ Press Release +*+*+ with something as sensational as recovery of an alien spacecraft if they weren't absolutely certain it was true?

No one will ever successfully explain the first question. I remember an interview with one local who said something like, "Hell, we have dogs here that can recognize a weather balloon." No one with any sense at all can pick up a piece of a mylar balloon and think its an alien spacecraft. It just doesn't happen.

The second question is usually answered with something like, "To distract attention from the truth - secret tests." I admit, it would be a good idea to distract people from the 'secret' tests being done. But to do so with a story that is GUARANTEED to draw even more attention??? I have a hard time believing anyone was that stupid.

originally posted by: Arbitrageur

originally posted by: EdisonintheFM
a reply to: Chris42393

Was it Reagan or Carter that said they, and their wife, saw a UFO while riding in a car one night?

Geez let me stop being lazy....

Reagan did.

And so did Carter.

Huh, didn't know both had.

Neither one of them "saw a UFO while riding in a car", Reagan was in a plane and Carter was standing on the ground. We still don't know what Reagan saw, but a man claims to have identified what Carter saw:

Damn, I had no idea Carter did lol. Good to know!