If we find Atlantis would we change history books?

originally posted by: LABTECH767
a reply to: AngryCymraeg

It is possible that it was as Plato said a story told to Solon by Egyptian priests, indeed the Egyptian creation myth had a primordial mound or Island in the middle of the primordial Nile.

A few points, if I may:

* Egypt didn't care a fig for other cultures and didn't record any of their history (except to say Egypt conquered them, if that happened).
* Athens (in the tale) defeated Atlantis. Which puts the mythical Atlantis as existing at the same time as Athens.
* If Athens actually defeated the mythical Atlantis, we would see it treated as they did with Troy -- the source of important legends and literature and painting. There's a zillion paintings of various events and mythical stories. There's songs about Troy, for example, and other such battles. There's zero (zip, zilch, nada) art or literature or anything else in Athens about Atlantis.
* the benben stone was not Atlantis. In the first place, it's a cosmological legend about the beginning of the universe told in only one area and specific to only one set of gods. And it was only the rock that the deity sat (or stood) on while creating the rest of the world/gods/etc.

a reply to: Blue Shift

Hunter gatherers hurling spears at mammoths would have been way after Atlantis downfall. Mankind in survival mode during the younger dryas.

originally posted by: Byrd

* Athens (in the tale) defeated Atlantis. Which puts the mythical Atlantis as existing at the same time as Athens.
* If Athens actually defeated the mythical Atlantis, we would see it treated as they did with Troy -- the source of important legends and literature and painting. There's a zillion paintings of various events and mythical stories. There's songs about Troy, for example, and other such battles. There's zero (zip, zilch, nada) art or literature or anything else in Athens about Atlantis.

Greece had cultural continuity with the people from the time of Troy.

But Plato directly states that the Greeks had lost their memory of the war with Atlantis. The Egyptian priests who inform Solon about the matter say his people will not remember the story they are telling, because their memory of events doesn't go back far enough.

How many cultures even claim to remember things that happened back to the ice age?

I noticed the Bagavad Ghita was mentioned in LabTech's links. So there is one culture that may claim to recount events from the appropriate time, and it does mention something like Atlantis.

Are there any that remember that far back and don't mention it?

I'm thinking maybe the Maya, but we don't have anything approaching a complete body of work from them.

a reply to: EdisonintheFM

So it got so woke it bannned itself.

Plausible.

originally posted by: EdisonintheFM
a reply to: aristorat

What if Atlantis was actually a crap hole filled with woke citizens?

And the wokeness was the reason for its downfall.

I wish I could think of a place I could use as an example but it's still too soon to use the examples here in America.

👆 There's one in every thread!


As for the OP I believe Atlantic was advanced for the time but not compared to modern days. Obviously the history books would change, Atlantis would move from legend to fact and it would be the discovery of the age.

Surely the Minoans best fit the Atlantis model despite the controversy regards the dating. It makes the most sense although the woo spinners can't abide that.

i think modern Greenland was the local of the City-State Atlantis... in pre-history times

the mythic layout for Atlantis was picked up by western Europe Elites with Strong fortresses (castels) ringed by moats of water and supporting villages scattered around the central Castle-moat complex

the environs of Atlantis was fashioned in a fertile valley where a Glacier once lay
and building the canal ringed Iconic city commenced

originally posted by: St Udio


i think modern Greenland was the local of the City-State Atlantis... in pre-history times

the mythic layout for Atlantis was picked up by western Europe Elites with Strong fortresses (castels) ringed by moats of water and supporting villages scattered around the central Castle-moat complex

the environs of Atlantis was fashioned in a fertile valley where a Glacier once lay
and building the canal ringed Iconic city commenced

And why exactly would a city-state in Greenland be at war with Athens, as Plato very clearly states?

a reply to: AngryCymraeg



technology and trade-resources...the same type of causes for war throughout history And in the present zeitgeist

a reply to: djz3ro

So you don't think an ideology can be the downfall of a nation?

Interesting.

It's possible maybe Plato was aiming that way. Saying they got extremely decadent, and then their island sank, and the rest of the world really didn't feel any pity for them.

So they're only a footnote in anybody's history. (And then, only those cultures that even keep history that far back.)

originally posted by: 20Eyes1974
a reply to: Blue Shift

Hunter gatherers hurling spears at mammoths would have been way after Atlantis downfall. Mankind in survival mode during the younger dryas.

I'm thinking it was the other way around. Plenty of megafauna to hunt prior to 12,800 BP, not so many when the temperature dropped. Maybe it was actually the loss of megafauna that forced the Atlanteans to look for more stable food sources and congregate in villages and cities, particularly during the last several centuries of the Younger Dryas when it started to get warmer again. The easy life of migrating with the mammoths was over. I figure if they existed at all, the Atlanteans were contemporaries of the Clovis people, although not necessarily related to them, perhaps coming to Atlantis by following the edge of the Arctic ice sheet from the east, rather than the west.

originally posted by: bloodymarvelous
How many cultures even claim to remember things that happened back to the ice age?

Well, you just said that the Egyptians did.
Are you arguing against yourself?

Harte

originally posted by: St Udio
a reply to: AngryCymraeg



technology and trade-resources...the same type of causes for war throughout history And in the present zeitgeist

You are failing to get my point. Why would a city-state on the Western side of the Atlantic bother with, based on Solon's dates, a small village? Athens was not strong at the time of Plato's tale of Atlantis and yet the story says it was.
Atlantis is a fable, a story, an allegory made up by Plato.

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg
Ooookay, time for me to introduce a dose of reality. The only reference to Atlantis anywhere is in Plato's works Timaeus and Critias, where it is an enemy of Athens. Let me repeat that - it's in two minor works of Plato where it is mentioned as an enemy of ATHENS.
There are no references to it anywhere else at all. There is is no proof of it existing outside of various people's imaginations.

And moreover, especially given that Athens defeated the Atalntian army, it means that Athens must have be as - or more - advanced than Atlantis!

Of course, the Atlantians were advanced enough to leave absolutely no trace whatsoever of their existence - not a single spearhead or piece of pottery or even can of beer - in any of the Mediterranean countries - including Egypt - that they invaded prior to defeat by Athens. I wonder why?

originally posted by: St Udio


i think modern Greenland was the local of the City-State Atlantis... in pre-history times

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, NO!

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: bloodymarvelous
How many cultures even claim to remember things that happened back to the ice age?

Well, you just said that the Egyptians did.
Are you arguing against yourself?

Harte

Supposedly they're the ones who communicated the story to Solon.

Do you know of any sources on Egyptian history going back into the ice age? Manetho is pretty good, but all that's left of his account is commentary by other authors (most of whom go out of their way to re date events to be within the Biblical limit of creation.)

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg

originally posted by: St Udio
a reply to: AngryCymraeg



technology and trade-resources...the same type of causes for war throughout history And in the present zeitgeist

You are failing to get my point. Why would a city-state on the Western side of the Atlantic bother with, based on Solon's dates, a small village? Athens was not strong at the time of Plato's tale of Atlantis and yet the story says it was.
Atlantis is a fable, a story, an allegory made up by Plato.

The story claims that they were actually attempting to conquer everyone in the whole region, but the Athenians did the best job of standing up to them, and liberated the ones Atlantis had already conquered.

originally posted by: AndyMayhew

originally posted by: AngryCymraeg
Ooookay, time for me to introduce a dose of reality. The only reference to Atlantis anywhere is in Plato's works Timaeus and Critias, where it is an enemy of Athens. Let me repeat that - it's in two minor works of Plato where it is mentioned as an enemy of ATHENS.
There are no references to it anywhere else at all. There is is no proof of it existing outside of various people's imaginations.

And moreover, especially given that Athens defeated the Atalntian army, it means that Athens must have be as - or more - advanced than Atlantis!

Of course, the Atlantians were advanced enough to leave absolutely no trace whatsoever of their existence - not a single spearhead or piece of pottery or even can of beer - in any of the Mediterranean countries - including Egypt - that they invaded prior to defeat by Athens. I wonder why?

The invasion would have happened over a short period of time.

You would be very lucky to find a relic left over from the Nazi invasion of Russia lying around in 3000 AD. Nevermind finding one in 12,000 AD.

originally posted by: bloodymarvelous

originally posted by: Harte

originally posted by: bloodymarvelous
How many cultures even claim to remember things that happened back to the ice age?

Well, you just said that the Egyptians did.
Are you arguing against yourself?

Harte

Supposedly they're the ones who communicated the story to Solon.

Do you know of any sources on Egyptian history going back into the ice age? Manetho is pretty good, but all that's left of his account is commentary by other authors (most of whom go out of their way to re date events to be within the Biblical limit of creation.)

Meh.
Solon traveled to Egypt sometime around 570 BC. If the Egyptians had any records such as Plato claimed, they would still be there today.

originally posted by: bloodymarvelousYou would be very lucky to find a relic left over from the Nazi invasion of Russia lying around in 3000 AD. Nevermind finding one in 12,000 AD.

Yet we HAVE found trade goods that go that far back, and farther. Just not Atlantean. Not to mention DNA evidence.

Harte

originally posted by: bloodymarvelous

Do you know of any sources on Egyptian history going back into the ice age? Manetho is pretty good, but all that's left of his account is commentary by other authors (most of whom go out of their way to re date events to be within the Biblical limit of creation.)

Nobody has written records that go back that far. However, Egyptian records survive from before the 4th dynasty (2800 BC) and labels and images from 6000 BC.

a reply to: Byrd

You MAY and I Agree, very good point's.