Russian warship fires warning shots at British Navy

originally posted by: Peeple
After the foundation myth it's the 2nd leg your patriotic identity stands on "we defeated the Nazis"...

WTF brought that up? Not me. I have a very strong understanding of the entire World War II period, before, during and after and those words have never left my mouth.

originally posted by: Zcustosmorum

And I should remind, had the Russians failed on the Eastern front, there's a good chance we'd all be a bunch of racist Germans right now

What beat the Germanys was winter...Just like with Napoleon, once the US entered the war Germany loss no matter what they did. Just like the advantages the Russians have with their winters the US isolation means our war machine just keeps on ticking without bombs or troops on our soil slowing it down unlike Germany.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

How else am I supposed to read things like this:

...the race to Berlin only involved the Russians because the Allies decided ...

originally posted by: Peeple

...the race to Berlin only involved the Russians because the Allies decided ...

Exactly how I wrote it, it doesn't mention the United States singlehandedly defeating the Nazis.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Sorry if I misunderstood.

a reply to: Agit8dChop

It's because of what was said in the private meeting.

originally posted by: Peeple
a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Okay so entertain this thought:
Yalta was where the zones were decided and the Soviets got all formerly Nazi occupied territory in the East, with 'free elections' as lip service to save face, but ...
Look at the results, Russia won.
What did US & UK get?
A very expensive PR campaign opportunity and a lot of Nazis in Paperclip.

Most Russian armor was built on tractor bases from the good old US.
They had nuthin .
Near their entire war effort was funded by the US and the UK .

Go back to school and take some history courses .

Back on topic : Fake News .

In a curious twist the BBC's defence correspondent Jonathan Beale is on board HMS Defender and heard the shots , audio report in link.

Also curious is this...

Our correspondent, who had been invited on board the ship before the incident happened, saw more than 20 aircraft overhead and two Russian coastguard boats which at times were just 100m (328ft) away.
www.bbc.co.uk...

a reply to: Gothmog

That's not wrong that a lot equipment was from lend-lease but if you think that's an answer to the post you quote...
You didn't get what I said. It just makes the Russian win bigger actually.

Russian ships firing on the Royal Navy?????? It brings to mind another incident, now where was it? Oh yes, a little place called Tonkin.
It was agreed at Yalta that the Russian would take Berlin because they had suffered the worst under the Nazis and more importantly Churchill and Roosevelt thought that any diehard Nazis would defend Berlin to the death so what better than let the Russian Die for it.

Please don't be naïve in thinking the East Germans were grateful to be "liberated". The Nazis committed some devastating atrocities in Russia and the Russians punished the East German civilians for it. You wont find the documents now, but take my word, over 90% of German women (and some men) between the ages of 12 years old and 90 years old were raped. You wont read about that in the history of WW2.

Classic.

Russia allegedly fires 'warning shots' at UK warship and we have non-Brits or Russians arguing about WWII.

Only on ATS.

As far as I'm aware The Allies could have beaten Russia to Berlin but it was agreed at The Yalta Conference that Russia would occupy Eastern Germany, including all the land surrounding Berlin.
Paton and Churchill both pleaded with Eisenhower to instruct Montgomery to advance and take Berlin but General Bradley advised against it due to the potential high cost of lives.

I don't know, could be wrong but every account of The Race to Berlin I've ever read over the years more or less agrees on this point.

On topic.
HMS Defender is quite a modern warship which also recently had quite an extensive refit.
Its more than able to 'look after' itself.

I quite like these quotes from Tom Tugendaht;

"They're like gorillas, banging their chest and pretending they're doing something.

"The reality is Putin has stolen so much money off the Russian navy and people..most are just rust buckets."

Now it appears they lied about it.
For a mafia regime they really are pretty rubbish. But then they've so robbed the people and stripped out the country that there's nothing left.
Russia deserves better than these thieves.

Firing shots at ships in international waters is criminal. Putin's regime has:
-Used chemical weapons in the UK
-Murdered opponents across Europe
-Set explosions in Prague
-Invaded and illegally occupied Ukraine and Georgia
-Kept the Russian people hostage for a generation.

Much ado about nothing methinks.

a reply to: Freeborn

I wouldn't call 20 jets harassing one boat and vicious threats "nothing"

a reply to: Peeple

We constantly have to chase Russian aircraft out of UK airspace.
It's all part of 'the game'.

If push came to shove I'm sure Defender would hold its own against Russian aircraft.
But it won't come to that.
Its all just part of 'the game' designed for public consumption.

Do you honestly think Russia would risk a major confrontation over something so trivial?

a reply to: Freeborn

I think you underestimate the tension in the area.
How much Russia needs to show balls.

It's not about confrontation or an escalation, it's about building up a narrative.


And I mean "we didn't even notice" is cute when you're dealing with a twitter bully but...
It can be after everything also be read as: Russia can do whatever they want because we will take it a few sanctions here and there but basically... wide open, bent... you get the picture

Russia needs to stop murdering people on British soil which is an act of war, they need to stop interfering in our and wests elections, they need to stop meddling behind the scenes trying to cause division within European and American countries.

At the same time Britain needs to get the heck out of the Black Sea same for the U States and accept Russia has some near abroad that is a red line to them and stop trying to take more states under the NATO / EU wing as that will only create a reaction from Putin. Same goes for the Baltic region where the NATO are really giving it the same trying to get a reaction from Russia, but why? It's not like some tin pot regime to kick in like Iraq. At times I do wonder if they actually want the end of our world as tensions like this might get out of hand and it only takes a minor nuke exchange and we're all all in the muck. NATI is like a drug addict who just can't stop wanting more than the previous hit, more more more.................... But Ruskies got the nukes

Right I got a bit carried away earlier, I was suffering an ocular migraine when I typed my comment today and not feeling too well but the facts remain facts nevertheless.

As for the Crimea itself I hold by my earlier assessment that it IS in fact part of Russia, I had to watch a Sky News report to get the facts straight and apparently despite the build up and then defusing of the situation someone in NATO thought it was a good idea to steam a ship through contested waters that ARE Arguably Russian territory, the only reason that Crimea was passed to Ukraine during the confusion of the break up of the Soviet Union was because a former USSR president back in the 50's whom himself was Ukrainian born had put the mainly RUSSIAN populated region under Ukrainian administration never envisaging that the Ukraine would one day go back to being an independent nation after more than two hundred years of being a part of Russia, remember that Russia and Ukraine despite there differences are really the same people, bit of a different history but ethnically they look the same and probably are related more closely than say Germans and Austrians.

I still think the Russians over reacted but I do understand as they are standing adamant that it is there territory and I agree with them on that, I was a bit nasty earlier as well and apologize but it was a knee jerk, the last thing we need is more mother's sun's dying on any side because of corrupt politicians and there back room deals and that argument goes to all politicians these day's.

I also think the Ukrainian uprising was a staged coup to oust a PRO Russian president from office and the tools that were used make those that used them guilty in my eye's, there is no excuse for using NEO NAZI's and Hitler worshippers and let's be fair it was all about the oil and GERMANY's economy.

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Trueman
Like who ????

He's referring to Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

I know brother

a reply to: Zcustosmorum

That "puny country" as you put it, has nuclear subs that are on par or superior to your own in some respects, and the same to similar nuclear weapons payload as your own boomers, so there is that.

Boris is a clown all the same.

One Russian ICBM with accompanying payload could blanket our island in nuclear fire from one end to the other, but our subs could take a right good chunk out there leg in in return, after all its still a M.A.D world.

I've just watched the BBC News report on this - they just happen to have a reporter and film crew on board HMS Defender.

It showed footage of the Russian Coast Guard boat shadowing Defender and some Russian planes flying overhead.
Shots were fired - well away from the British destroyer.

The report also showed footage from a Russian plane.

The reporter made the point that this was also about 'the information war'.

The in studio analyst stated that the decision to sail through these international water that Russia claims would have been at the highest level of the British government.
They were expecting a reaction from Russia.

He also said that both parties will feel they have successfully made their respective points.

As I said; food for the masses, all played out for public consumption.

originally posted by: Zcustosmorum
a reply to: LABTECH767

Textlast time we met in battle we kicked your arse

Who's 'your', I'm not Russian, I just see through the Western propaganda. WW2 was over 70 years ago, it's gone, the closest we now have to the Nazis is the US

You really need to learn your own history before telling me what perspective I have.

Point wasn't on history, and I stand by what I said, the kicker is that they're all hypocrites and guilty of double standards, maybe I should have said "you're stuck in the past and the world has passed you by"

No!, the closest we now have damned corporations in control of much of the west or not is actually the CCP, they have been ethnically cleansing since Mao first took control, murdering, HANifying China and suppressing the many indiginous NON HAN chinese ethnic group's, forcibly sterilizing NON HAN minority's (whom were once the majority but whom are second or even third class if that in China today), working people as slave labour in concentration camp's etc.

The Closes thing to the NAZI's is actually the CCP, the Chinese communist party but remove the words communist and peoples from that equation because it is the NEW MAOist dynasty and should be called that, what they are doing is nothing new in Chinese history however as China has had a very long succession of tyrant's, blood thirsty population butchering murderous rulers just like old Mao himself was, look how many of the poor peasant farmers the very people he CLAIMED to represent but did NOT represent he caused to die of starvation and hunger during his so called cultural revolution, a period in which like Qin had done at the start of his emperorship he tried to destroy China's history so that he could rewrite it with himself at it's centre.

The CCP is undoubtedly the most evil LARGE ruling force in control of any part of our world today, Isis were arguably worse but there rule was short lasted though it will now come back with NATO's withdrawal from Afghanistan on the Hindu Kush - unless of course China step's up and send's it own peace keeping force to take charge of Afghanistan (pass the popcorn).

Personally mate I would recommend you go back to your optician if that is really how you see things, oh we don't ever get all the facts or the full story but we get more than you do apparently.