Michael Schiavo - Sworn Affidavit by RN Ciyer

Originally posted by Gazrok

noone has even done an mri from what i understand we are talking about a couple of hours ,,,,,and could mean life or death

Actually, an MRI of Terri has been posted during some of the Terri threads. It shows her cerebral cortex is all but GONE...

whats the matter with getting one with todays date on it .....all questions can have the wrong answer

they need a final confirmation

There is an old CAT scan, no MRI. New technology could shed much more light on her true condition.

Maybe this will help....from the Second District appeals..

Since 1990, Theresa has lived in nursing homes with constant care. She is fed and hydrated by tubes. The staff changes her diapers regularly. She has had numerous health problems, but none have been life threatening.

Over the span of this last decade, Theresa's brain has deteriorated because of the lack of oxygen it suffered at the time of the heart attack. By mid 1996, the CAT scans of her brain showed a severely abnormal structure. At this point, much of her cerebral cortex is simply gone and has been replaced by cerebral spinal fluid. Medicine cannot cure this condition. Unless an act of God, a true miracle, were to recreate her brain, Theresa will always remain in an unconscious, reflexive state, totally dependent upon others to feed her and care for her most private needs.

If recent scans showed anything else, I'm sure the Schindler's wouldn't hesitate to use them... They haven't done so, so it's a pretty safe assumption there isn't anything new here...(nor could there be, really)

Do you REALLY think they haven't done an MRI or two, or a hundred? HEPA laws... As mentioned, if they had something to use, they'd use it...

[edit on 24-3-2005 by Gazrok]

Originally posted by djohnsto77
There is an old CAT scan, no MRI. New technology could shed much more light on her true condition.

Also the CAT scan view is distorted, just one "slice" and no reason to think is hasn't been altered..................the entire plate would be interesting........

Originally posted by djohnsto77
There is an old CAT scan, no MRI. New technology could shed much more light on her true condition.

I understood this to be the case a few minutes ago on the news , however i think some think that cat is mri and they dont understand the differnce

Also the CAT scan view is distorted, just one "slice" and no reason to think is hasn't been altered..................the entire plate would be interesting........

No reason to think it HAS been altered. I saw it on a medical site for Pete's sake! Man, now THAT would be a conspiracy!

Originally posted by Gazrok

Also the CAT scan view is distorted, just one "slice" and no reason to think is hasn't been altered..................the entire plate would be interesting........

No reason to think it HAS been altered. I saw it on a medical site for Pete's sake! Man, now THAT would be a conspiracy!

I personally dont think a cat was altered , but i will say they are inadequate and obsolete in matters such as this

Originally posted by Gazrok
He's had 15 years to intervene in this case.

Funny, I don't recall hearing anything about this in any of his three gubernatorial campaigns (1994, 1998, 2002) and I'm a Republican. I don't live in Tampa anymore but I remember a thing or two about Florida politics and I honestly don't remember such a topic becoming a campaign issue.

The problem is that if the doctors and the court have to go through a series of test all over again the tube will have to be inserted again, taking her through the same ordeal all over again.

And if the scan is the same the family will still fight for her, but I feel that perhaps one more scan should be due, some of you are right maybe that will put some at ease.

But when the cortex is gone is gone absorb by the body so is not way the brain can regenerate one is disintegrated.

Originally posted by marg6043
The problem is that if the doctors and the court have to go through a series of test all over again the tube will have to be inserted again, taking her through the same ordeal all over again.

not true some test can be performed as she is and would only take hours .....that should not keep the work being done



you act as if the tests cant be done without them ....if anything heightened activity in an mri scan if noted would show a respose to her present condition validating the reinsertion all the much more

Funny, I don't recall hearing anything about this in any of his three gubernatorial campaigns (1994, 1998, 2002) and I'm a Republican. I don't live in Tampa anymore but I remember a thing or two about Florida politics and I honestly don't remember such a topic becoming a campaign issue.

Exactly... So why now? Well, with the publicity of pro-life and pro-church views of the current ones in power, and publicized faith-based initiatives, it isn't too hard to see now is it?

Still, I'm all for focusing BACK on the issue of the individual here, and getting away from the partisan aspects of the case.

Lets all remember that medical records are private, and only released by the family (whether parents or husband) at their discretion. And you can bet that MRIs in addition to CATs, and just about anything else would have been ordered by the court in at least SOME of the twenty some odd hearings thus far.... Again though, you can bet your last dollar that if the Schindlers had an MRI pic showing anything but severe damage to the cerebral cortex, they'd be using it.

yes gazork medical records are private ,, but not when subpenia of possible medical malpractice is implied ....and if no mri was done and further tests where blocked by biased physicians as indicated by the mother and father then such medical information can be aired for court determination

Even with an MRI though, read the following....
(found it while searching for MRI results...)

The tragic truth is that it makes no difference whether Schiavo is PVS or minimally conscious; she can no longer tell her loved ones and her physicians what she would want her treatment to be. The U.S. Supreme Court decided in the 1990 case Cruzan vs. Director of the Missouri Department of Health that it was morally and legally acceptable to withhold hydration and nutrition from a PVS patient if there was "clear and convincing evidence" that the patient wished to refuse such treatment. Subsequently, the Missouri court found that Cruzan had told co-workers that she would never want to "live like a vegetable," and her feeding tube was removed.

Similarly, the court in Florida found that Schiavo had said that she would not want to be treated if there were no hope of recovery from a vegetative state. This is, of course, disputed, but courts make disputed findings of fact all the time. Unless we want to force every PVS patient who neglects to fill out a living will to accept a feeding tube, such court decisions are the best we can do in heartbreaking situations like this. The protection of human dignity requires that we discern and then honor as best we can the requests of those who can no longer communicate their desires to us.

[edit on 24-3-2005 by Gazrok]

Oddly enough (been researching it a bit), it seems an MRI was never done...

Here's why.

an MRI can’t be done because of thalamic implants that were placed in Terri’s skull during the last attempt at therapy, dating back to 1992

To do so, they'd have to surgically remove these (which could safely be done), but Jesus, why? Put a woman through more just to confirm what is known? It just doesn't seem necessary. As mentioned above...even IF she was instead re-diagnosed as partially responsive, it STILL WOULDN'T CHANGE ANYTHING as far as decisions to be made. Sorry, but I can now perfectly understand why an MRI wouldn't be done...

Originally posted by Gazrok
Even with an MRI though, read the following....
(found it while searching for MRI results...)

The tragic truth is that it makes no difference whether Schiavo is PVS or minimally conscious; she can no longer tell her loved ones and her physicians what she would want her treatment to be. The U.S. Supreme Court decided in the 1990 case Cruzan vs. Director of the Missouri Department of Health that it was morally and legally acceptable to withhold hydration and nutrition from a PVS patient if there was "clear and convincing evidence" that the patient wished to refuse such treatment. Subsequently, the Missouri court found that Cruzan had told co-workers that she would never want to "live like a vegetable," and her feeding tube was removed.

Similarly, the court in Florida found that Schiavo had said that she would not want to be treated if there were no hope of recovery from a vegetative state. This is, of course, disputed, but courts make disputed findings of fact all the time. Unless we want to force every PVS patient who neglects to fill out a living will to accept a feeding tube, such court decisions are the best we can do in heartbreaking situations like this. The protection of human dignity requires that we discern and then honor as best we can the requests of those who can no longer communicate their desires to us.

This statement in whole just irritates me ....I cant speak right now does that make me any the less deminissed ...if i end up with a possitive result from my present throat cancer test but can be treated but fall unconciuos during treatment .or what about those who cant speak , and have hearing disabilities....i mean really if this would be a standard a very deaf blind and ignorant person as depicted in the book what was it Hellen Keller story .....that person dumb deaf blind and with out communication should have been put to death if ever becoming unconscious.....even if a minor coma ,,,,,i was in a coma three time throughout my life by this account you are saying i should have been put to death.....my injuries where neither life threatening or perminent ...they where reactions to medications i was given by a screw up doctor ....ie malpractice ....but i guess that wouldnt matter in this context and i would be killed

[edit on 24/3/2005 by drbryankkruta]

[edit on 24/3/2005 by drbryankkruta]

Hellen Keller learned to communicate though, didn't she?

No chance of that one here...and really apples to oranges.

BTW, here's a link to the CAT scan pic...

www.miami.edu...

Originally posted by Gazrok
Hellen Keller learned to communicate though, didn't she?

No chance of that one here...and really apples to oranges.

BTW, here's a link to the CAT scan pic...

www.miami.edu...

Did you miss the part where there are at least two promanent neurologists and one not so promenent therapist that says she shows indications that warrent further effort and testing.....they think more time is needed to work with her and to date that hasnt been incouraged....and in fact has been blocked 4 times since this volley of debates ignated nation wide ......and there is another neurologist that even said based on the medical records alone having never seen terri that there is cause for further effort for rehabilitation




Oh and personal note those documents examined where from the same doctors that contend that she is a veggie and has no hope of recovery

[edit on 24/3/2005 by drbryankkruta]

Did you miss the part where there are at least two promanent neurologists and one not so promenent therapist that says she shows indications that warrent further effort and testing.....they think more time is needed to work with her and to date that hasnt been incouraged....and in fact has been blocked 4 times since this volley of debates ignated nation wide ......and there is another neurologist that even said based on the medical records alone having never seen terri that there is cause for further effort for rehabilitation

Nope, I didn't miss it. But I don't see the point in prolonging her life even if she is rediagnosed with the other diagnosis. Michael doesn't either, and the courts have REPEATEDLY ruled that they feel that Terri communicated this wish also. So there you go. OF COURSE he wouldn't want more crap trying to prolong her suffering. He wants her to have peace. Jeez, after 15 years, I'd want it too. So would YOU I'd wager. So why different for Terri? Seriously....

Personally, if I could eat on my own, and write with a pen stuck in my mouth, I'd STILL want my wife to frickin' let me go... I mean if I had NO hope of ever getting out of that hospital bed (and despite the differences of doctors, they all agree on this point), then man, let me go.... According to the law, Terri has made that same desire, and now that it's gone to the highest court in the land, it's high time we honored that decision....

I think we're just about to the point where we're going to be talking about the aftermath.

On that point. Is it Mr. Shaivo's right to have Terri cremated immediately? I can forsee more news conferences with the family begging for the corpse now. After 15 years, why the rush to cremation, which, while permitted now by the catholic church, is not the preffered internment method? Will Mr. Shaivo now remember another movie where Terri said she didn't want to be buried?

I think it's in the best interest of those involved to permit at least an autopsy. That way Mr. Shaivo can show that he has nothing to hide. The insistance by him and the court for cremation is odd and unusual....

I think its sick that its gotten to the point in this world where in a person who himself has an Advanced Health Care Directive and DNR has to be an advocate for someones life in this matter ......But I think this whole deal is wrong and till they show me written proof of her desires which is in my state a requirement as in many states I wont believe she is recieving the right treatment.....better yet if I see it I wont view it as MURDER which right now it is.