Suppose Hitler were right

I suggest our world would have been more advanced, people would have developed even further and achieved even more by now if Hitler had got his way through.

Up for discussion

Well...Ol Adolf certainly had a few revolutionary ideas alright...

...just a pity about wasting those millions of people who got in the way...minor oversight really huh...

Does Godwin's Law still apply if it's invoked in the OP?

This is going to turn into a dogpile, but, for the sake of argument, if it doesn't:

Which specific ideas are you talking about here? The idea that it is the duty of the citizen to subsume their own needs and desires to the needs and desires of the State, or that Jews are responsible for the economic depression Germany (and the rest of the world) suffered in the 1930s rather than the draconian provisions of the Treaty of Versailles coupled with phenomenally bad investment strategies on the national and world markets following the Great War?

well, it would have certain stoped the worlds overpolulation problem, and we would be much farther along in tschnology.

I give it a mabye.

well, there will be little or no jews left, maybe have higher tech, the statue of libirty in new york will be the statue of hiter (that is if he invade US and win).

At the best of times this would be a dumb discussion. Facts:

1. Hitler attempted to come to total world control
2. Hitler was a screaming maniac with just the tiniest touch of megalomania
3. Hitler attempted to take his own people down in flames and fury, an
operatic quality, Homeric, epic of death and destruction
4. Hitler was of a mental set and evil bent, that many, many of us, would not
even be here had he won
5. Had he been all that good and his ideas sound and his technology good,
he would have won. As they say ...

The proof is in the pudding.


DIRTY EVIL LOSER


To this day I do not understand how he got into power... Nor do I understand the ongoing fascination with the ravng fantasies a mad man ... Other than as a blue print of "What not to do".

well sigung86...............since you and most of america does understand hitler and what happened back there.that's why it is starting to happen now with bush and co.when most do figure it out it will be too late.

I agree, the way you brought up the topic was a bit crass...

Yes, Hitler was a total psycho, no one will argue that fact.

Some of the laws he initiated are still in effect today in Germany: Kindergeld( giving money to mothers who have children).

The medical experiments, horrible as they were brought about, were the beginning of modern medicine.

The weapons projects, especially in propulsion, led to the modern aviation and space programs.

His policy against communism helped stop the advance of communism into Western Europe.

He was evil, no point in argueing that fact. Out of this evil, though, good things did come about. Years later, and at the expense of the unfortunate millions that died for it.

Originally posted by chinalurker
I suggest our world would have been more advanced, people would have developed even further and achieved even more by now if Hitler had got his way through.

Up for discussion

Firstly Hitler was not right in the slightest...

Millions of people died in World War II for a good cause... to stop Hitler....

Now the Central union of Europe is about to achieve what Hitler could not... central control of Europe...

I'm totally against it and I'm totally against the Single currency...

NeoN HaZe

Originally posted by chinalurker
I suggest our world would have been more advanced, people would have developed even further and achieved even more by now if Hitler had got his way through.

No.

In fact, this point (that we would not have gotten so far) is very proveable.

Hitler, like Stalin and other dictators, controlled what was allowed in the press and in science research. As many physiscists, biologists, and chemists found out under Stalin's routine, if the research did not fit The Leader's concept of what he wanted to see, the scientist could be killed or imprisoned.

There are a number of notable physicists who were jailed for going against a theory that Stalin thought was right. There were a number who were sent to Siberia during the Communist regiem for having science that was "antithical to socialist principles."

Remember, Einstein fled to America to avoid being shut up in a ghetto and/or killed. So did Oppenheimer and a lot of the founders of our modern technology. I'm not sure where they could have gone if Hitler had won, but science would be far behind what it is today.

In fact, under Hitler, I would not be allowed to do my research since I'm a woman. My friend who works on human genomics would not have been allowed her labs or her publications.

All I know is that Hitler will remain in history as one of the bloodiest tyrants of the 20Th century.

Others are Mao and Stalin.

Mao, created a famine that killed millions in China. These mans did something that cause the death of millions of people.

No, I don't see why Hitler or any other tyrants of the 20 century has been right on causing so much death.

Is not right when it comes on Killers of humanity, he was also one of the most racist men in history.

Ok, let's look at something called genetics for a second:

1. lighter colored hair and eyes are recessive traits. To get rid of darker haired people is to lose genetic diversity.

2. Do we remember why it is a bad thing to have kids with our siblings? Why is that? Oh, becasue there not enough genetic diversity.

There you have it, a bad idea from the start.

Let's go on:

What "race" has the lowest fat to muscle ratio? Blacks

What "race" dies of skin cancer in hot enviroments? Whites

What "race" can't get enough vitamin d in cold enviroments? Blacks

What "race" doens't have any geniuses? none

Let's see, there are a few things that are better in one or the other race, but neither has a total control on being completely superior.

Next:

According to one study done in the 70s for 60 Minutes, how many geniuses function as geniuses with 70% of their brain damaged/no longer operational? How about all of them in that study.

This implies that intelligence isn't always determined by what you can use...meaning genetics is not always THAT important....master race is a bad idea, lol.

Can't deny that many would have been killed. The matter though is if the development of the civilization as a whole would have been better. More advanced perhaps. Not so many other kinds of problems that we are facing these days. Perhaps the world population wouldn't be such a big problem as now for example etc...

It is true that under dictatorships or singularly headed forms of government, often sciences get a real leg up. I guess true science can not/should not be tied up with small concepts like ethics and moral conscience. And so, I have to wonder if the corpses of the people who died to give that leg up ... er ... a leg up ... are worth the cost?

Perhaps I'm too humanist, or too leftist, or too something that most people don't like, but I can not see that the cost in human life, in a non-voluntary situation, makes the cost worth the scientific advances.

Originally posted by chinalurker
I suggest our world would have been more advanced, people would have developed even further and achieved even more by now if Hitler had got his way through.

Up for discussion

If hitler won the war, we would be less advanced because we would be living under a dictatorship similar to soviet russia but only under a swastika and a diffirent ideology. We would be slaves in labour camps, live in cheap housing and wouldn't have all this advanced fancy technology we get today except the millitary would be quite advanced. You wouldn't be allowed to think for your self, would be under strict rule and would of achieved less for your self. But after a few years of hitler winning the war there would be a revolution against it. You ever watched the film 'fatherland', it's a good fantasy about what would happen if hitler won the war.

cb.

I doubt Hitler would of had the logistics capacity to "own" the entire world. You know how immense that would be? How many troops you would need to cover every country to keep them under control of Hitler? As well as intense rebel fighting worldwide?

The empire of Hitler wouild just collapse on itself.

Originally posted by RedOctober90
I doubt Hitler would of had the logistics capacity to "own" the entire world. You know how immense that would be? How many troops you would need to cover every country to keep them under control of Hitler? As well as intense rebel fighting worldwide?

The empire of Hitler wouild just collapse on itself.

I don't think hitler wanted to take over the world, it's just a myth, alot of people paint this on hitler and I think he just wanted the europe mainland.

Originally posted by Coolbreeze
I don't think hitler wanted to take over the world, it's just a myth, alot of people paint this on hitler and I think he just wanted the europe mainland.

Hmm, the Battle of Britain comes to mind. Pretty sure that's not mainland Europe.

Originally posted by sigung86
It is true that under dictatorships or singularly headed forms of government, often sciences get a real leg up.

Actually, they do NOT.

Dictators tend to kill off the scientists and intellectuals and schoars.

We have too many dangerous ideas. The things we develop can be used against the dictators. Only a very few are allowed to live and then only as long as they are seen to be faithful to whatever philosophy the dictator has.

if nazi had won...

-europe & ussr (and possibly allied nations)
would be controlled by nazi..
-Japan would rule asia..
(allies having lost cant fight another theatre of operation)

mankind might be under some form of coercion/enslavement

but of coz, they wanted global domination..

earth would be annex to the Draco empire.
a resistance movement might be harassing the ruling elite,
supported by other "benevolent / friendly" species

even a partial global dominance would be a problem..
(remember the original "program" called for global domination)
however in this case, the other "benevolent/friendly" species may provide covert / overt help..

a higher living standard for the ruling classes..perhaps
zombie worker