petro chemicals in food production

I was just listening to glen beck on the radio and he was talking to a guy in the company that trolled north face on a billboard saying how 90% of north face products are petro chemical.

what he touched on that surprised me a bit, was covering food production he claims that 60% of food production would go away if we truly removed fossil fuels from todays society.

This is even before you get to transportation of food from producers to market.

While fully aware of how important fossil fuels are important to every day life as we enjoy it, but that amount seemed surprising to me so wanted to throw it out there and see if people can find supporting evidence to this number, I will look as well when I get back from picking up the missus and post what I find.

Why.... if the number is accurate my preps are off by a significant factor, I have been pondering this stuff for 30 years and imagine more than just me would be surprised by 60% (I guessed 40-50% including trans) in production alone, which would suggest 70+% when trans enters the equation would be my guess.

Thats what I have for the moment, but lets dig a bit verify or adjust the numbers so we can all make a better decision.

a reply to: Irishhaf

Yeah, Vaseline for your outsides and any cheap candy(mostly chocolates) will have some paraffin wax in it, which is derived from petroleum

Whether the removal of fossil fuels from the equation would reduce food production by 40% or 60% or 70% really does not matter. Any amount along that spectrum would be devastating to the supply line and - ultimately - to the consumers.

And as to transportation adding say 20% or 30% to that - Well, that's just silly. I mean, what percentage of food in your local market is not transported by some conveyance using fossil fuel? Aside from maybe the odd Amish family carrying their produce to a local farmer's market in their horse-drawn buggy, I'm pretty sure that something like 99.999% of food transported to market in the US is transported by means of some conveyance that uses fossil fuel. Which means that even if only 40% of food production were effected by the loss of fossil fuels, for all practical purposes 100% of that 60% crop would rot in the field and everybody would starve.

ETA: Regarding that last paragraph, the rise in cost of fossil fuels obviously means an increase in production and transportation costs, which is then passed on to the consumer in the way of increased cost of goods. Making us suffer by locking us down into our homes with fear mongering and threats of legal sanctions didn't work out too well, so the next step is exactly this; increase cost of doing business, producing goods, consuming goods and moving about by reducing the supply of fossil fuels and driving up costs for all of those activities. If they can couple this with a rise in taxes, we'll all be effectively locked down again.

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Aside from food packaging, which uses massive amounts of petrochem products, there are several food grade petrochem products. These are used as stabilizers, preservatives, coloring agents, and all are from chemicals derived from good 'ol crude oil.

a reply to: incoserv

I live in a very rural county with farmers markets, and a horse and wagon could very well be used to get said food to a market.

Also do you have a garden?

Do your neighbors know about it?

Can it be seen from the road?

these are also things that need to be thought about as the war on fossil fuels continues, if you know the percentage that could be impacted you can at least make informed guesses on how to grow and protect your food when other people are starving and desperate.

a reply to: Irishhaf

food grade lubricants and as a additive.

straight form the FDA, and US Code via cornell law

§ 172.880 Petrolatum. Petrolatum may be safely used in food, subject to the provisions of this section.
(a) Petrolatum complies with the specifications set forth in the United States Pharmacopeia XX (1980) for white petrolatum or in the National Formulary XV (1980) for petrolatum.
(b) Petrolatum meets the following ultraviolet absorbance limits when subjected to the analytical procedure described in § 172.886(b):

§ 172.880 Petrolatum.

and as i said food grade lubricants for processing and cooking equipment.
ETA:
here is a list of all the related sub sections for Petrolatum additives allowed

§ 172.880 Petrolatum.
§ 172.882 Synthetic isoparaffinic petroleum hydrocarbons.
§ 172.884 Odorless light petroleum hydrocarbons.
§ 172.886 Petroleum wax.
§ 172.888 Synthetic petroleum wax.
21 CFR Subpart I - Multipurpose Additives

originally posted by: Irishhaf
a reply to: incoserv

I live in a very rural county with farmers markets, and a horse and wagon could very well be used to get said food to a market.

Also do you have a garden?

Do your neighbors know about it?

Can it be seen from the road?

these are also things that need to be thought about as the war on fossil fuels continues, if you know the percentage that could be impacted you can at least make informed guesses on how to grow and protect your food when other people are starving and desperate.

You are in a good place, but a place that is representative of an infinitesimal part of the US market. Good for you!

No, I do not have a garden. Where I currently live, there is no place for a garden. Trying to remedy that. I am looking at two properties. One has a small nook in the back where a private, well hidden garden could be planted.

a reply to: Irishhaf

Processed foods are processed with machines.

Machines have moving parts.

Moving parts require lubrication.

Usually with an oil based product.

Hell, wouldn't surprise me if all the conveyors use hydraulic motors. The kind that require huge tanks of oil, with dedicated hoses running to each motor.

The ammo for your gun should you go hunting. The supplies if you reload. Both transported but also use oil drilling out that brass casing to keep the tooling from overheating. Plastic casing on shotgun shells. Got to clean and lube those guns too.

Nylon, rayon, polyester...all synthetic fibers for clothing and even sewing thread.

Like fishing with braided nylon or monofilament line?

Snares and traps need lubricants in both manufacturing and preventative maintenance.

There are two natural alternatives to petroleum. Whale oil, which no one wants to start back slaughtering whales again on an industrial scale and hemp seed oil. Which means a few people will want to get high by growing a little marijuana which is pretty much the same people that do it now legally or illegally depending on where you live.

The bad thing about hemp seed oil is that big oil doesn’t control the money like now. As the market would be destroyed with cheap, renewable energy production. Which means even the farmers growing it won’t be rich for long as the abundance hits the marketplace over a couple years. Wouldn’t even need coal fired electric plants as they can burn oil to boil the water into steam to turn the turbines...which is less pollution too.

Hemp seed oil replaces at least 70% of petroleum usage and probably closer to 95% as they experiment more with it as fuel, plastics, paints, stains, varnishes, etc can be fully replaced. Now that means gasoline engines are done as diesel would have to replace it but the refinery process is a seed press and a paper filter to stain out the kernel bits then straight into the tank...and an anti-gel solution added in the winter months.

Soy oil has many uses, but not near as many as hemp seed oil.

originally posted by: Irishhaf
I was just listening to glen beck on the radio and he was talking to a guy in the company that trolled north face on a billboard saying how 90% of north face products are petro chemical.

what he touched on that surprised me a bit, was covering food production he claims that 60% of food production would go away if we truly removed fossil fuels from todays society.

This is even before you get to transportation of food from producers to market.

While fully aware of how important fossil fuels are important to every day life as we enjoy it, but that amount seemed surprising to me so wanted to throw it out there and see if people can find supporting evidence to this number, I will look as well when I get back from picking up the missus and post what I find.

Why.... if the number is accurate my preps are off by a significant factor, I have been pondering this stuff for 30 years and imagine more than just me would be surprised by 60% (I guessed 40-50% including trans) in production alone, which would suggest 70+% when trans enters the equation would be my guess.

Thats what I have for the moment, but lets dig a bit verify or adjust the numbers so we can all make a better decision.

He’s referring to the production of synthetic fertilizers. World agricultural output increased eightfold from approximately 1960 to 2020 because of the availability of Ammonia as a Nitrogen-rich fertilizer. Ammonia is mostly made using natural gas (Methane) as the feed stock.

If they have to drill a hole and pump it out of the deep ground, it's natural enough for me.

a reply to: 1947boomer

thank you thats what my brain locked up on, wifes out of town and the toddler was puking last night so brain=more mush than normal.

Put on your yes hats, there are discoveries to be made, replacements to be found.

Not to forget the tractors needed to plow, seed, tend and harvest fields. Upcoming phosphate crisis.

It's best to act now and look into old ways. If possible get some forest land and plant fruit trees in combination with other edibles like potato, berries and nuts. Yes it can be taken away or stolen but it's better to have nothing.

Plus some land owners are willing to exchange land with forest or different locations. Remember hunting rights normally are tied to the land owned. Fine details depend on local hunting law but that's a plus, too.

It doesn't stop at food either. If not already, try being more aware of packaging and again the old ways. These tide pods for example, I get tons more mileage from simple washing powder without lot's of the artificial stuff. Razors..did a thread on it for everyone still stuck with system-razors, have a look at buttefly safety razors and soap stones instead of canned foam.

Kitchen tools and knifes. I got myself a few damast-steel knife cooking knifes, hand forged and blaugepliestert (detailed, grinded and sharpened) by one of the last Blaupliester(master of knife maker, they finish the blades and put on grips). Will hand this down to my child one day this is sure if it isn't stolen but that won't happen. It wasn't that pricey either for the quality.

Investment in good tools that are used daily is never a money waste. Buy cheap, buy twice. I have been on the ground financially, not mistake this for boldness, but I know how important good durable stuff is because on the long term it will cost more to replace the crap.




Cooking pans, just my opinion but don't use anti stick coating. Sooner or later you will scrape it and most of the anti stick coatings aren't healthy but poisonous also. Cast iron and stainless steel will is most durable and if seasoned, have their own anti stick protection. More tasty also. I have one ceramic coated steel pan, didn't found any toxic reports on it yet.