Thank you Greatest Generation

originally posted by: HONROC
a reply to: alldaylong

OK, and most pilots in the military today are also young kids, that does not make them the greatest.

How many pilots of today have fought in aerial dog-fights. That sorts the boys from the men.

No onboard computers in aircraft of WW II. Pilots actually had to " fly " their machines.

originally posted by: HONROC
a reply to: shooterbrody

I have always had a problem with the moniker the greatest generation.

There's something to be said about lauding D-Day as a pinnacle of achievement, as opposed to a necessary evil that we should pray to never participate in again because what it means to require such deadly force against our fellow humans across the pond and how it changes our understanding of war as a badge of honor instead of mind-raping trauma that changes the very definition of humanity for every unfortunate soul who stepped off those boats into hell itself.

With that said, somber gratitude and reflection are appropriate on this anniversary of that awful day.

a reply to: alldaylong

I just looked it up and....

"The average age of a solider during WWII was 26. This number is skewed however, as the national draft in the US meant that EVERY able bodied man between 18 and 64 years old could be drafted. The average age of an Infantryman (enlisted non-officer) was around 22. The average age of a private was around 20."

Today you have an all volunteer force and....

"And the average enlisted member was just over age 27 in 2015"

So to my point it always has been and always will be mostly staffed by 30 and younger.

a reply to: alldaylong

So your problem is the tactics have changed over time? It is not the pilots decision to not engage in dog fights and also most other countries don't even have an air presence. Sounds like your issue is the type of war have changed

Using that logic then why not be upset that preceding generations of soldiers have not stood in front of each other and volley musket shots back and forth like in the revolutionary war era?

MY two Grand Uncles landed in Sicily, fought through Italy and landed on Juno on D-Day. Not in the first wave but later that morning. They fought through France and into Belgium and Holland. I tell you this because it will provide context for the next statement.

Both of them despised the term greatest generation. Their words were akin too... "The Nazis, the Italians, The Japanese, the Russians were all part of our generation and I am sure no one considers them great although many were warriors. They fought for their cause and their country, as misguided as that cause may have been. We weren't great, we were dealt a hand, we played it and thankfully we won. Nothing less, nothing more."

And to be fair to this generation, the minority gets the press, the attention and the scorn. The majority just want to live their lives like the rest of us. And I firmly believe that if we were faced with a similar situation, many, many ,many of them would not hesitate to sign up to defend their country.

YMMV though and this is just my opinion. Nothing less nothing more

a reply to: GAOTU789

Thank You Gao I agree, like I said if you ask any of them including any military guy or gal today they would say exactly that. Just did my job

In my years I have observed that usually those of us that have been in the sh@t are the ones that truly know how bad war is and want it as a last resort, and the ones pounding the war drum the loudest have not served and probably would not when the time comes.

originally posted by: HONROC
I believe we have enough people that would step up to the challenge.

Not at the level they had to endure their challenges, and that is kind of the reason they are called the greatest in they were faced with greater challenges and over came each one to make future generations better. Much of what they endured we today would not do the same and it isn't just the war, but life in general.

a reply to: Xtrozero

You can not say that with certainty. The evidence flys in the face of what you are claiming. When 9/11 happened ( which is the closest thing to a threat like WW2 that we have to compare to) the young did step up, and I believe the same would happen today

Now if you want to talk life in general that is a different story, I am talking military and stepping up to face down a threat. I saw a graphic one time that puts it best it is all cyclical:

Strong people create good times>>> good times create weak people>>> weak people create hard times>>> hard times create strong people

originally posted by: alldaylong

How many pilots of today have fought in aerial dog-fights. That sorts the boys from the men.

No onboard computers in aircraft of WW II. Pilots actually had to " fly " their machines.

How about flying bombers through walls of flak and fighters, hitting the beach on D-day, not having air superiority, fighting through the streets of EU, or on some island, or the Desert of Africa. Spending months cramped on ships packed in shoulder to shoulder, enduring the Great Depression, Massive discoveries in science and tech, massive infrastructure built, over all attitude of a good day of work etc. etc.

a reply to: Xtrozero

A soldier does not choose the tactics or the technology for the time in which they serve. You are throwing up a straw man with that argument. Like I said earlier, to use that logic then the greatest generation did not fight like the revolutionary war soldiers so they weren't as strong or brave? That is a ridiculous argument

And I am not putting them down, all i am pointing out is they stepped up and did their job just like the soldiers of today do

originally posted by: HONROC

You can not say that with certainty. The evidence flys in the face of what you are claiming. When 9/11 happened ( which is the closest thing to a threat like WW2 that we have to compare to) the young did step up, and I believe the same would happen today.

Some did, but they didn't endure the same level of struggles... I don't think they could. Desert Storm was a walk in the park compared to WWII. For a few things like we didn't have ground or air superiority for a long time. It was inch by inch fighting, and we could not do that today.

Now if you want to talk life in general that is a different story, I am talking military and stepping up to face down a threat. I saw a graphic one time that puts it best it is all cyclical:

Strong people create good times>>> good times create weak people>>> weak people create hard times>>> hard times create strong people

I agree with this, but the Greatest Gen created good times and we are still living them with weaker people each generation.

originally posted by: HONROC
a reply to: shooterbrody

I have always had a problem with the moniker the greatest generation.

So what would you prefer they be referred to as?
No matter what you choose, they still deserve gratitude for a debt that can never be repaid.
My thread was an attempt to show that gratitude, not bicker over a name not chosen by them.
Good day.

a reply to: Xtrozero

A soldier does not get to choose the enemy or the war they fight in, I believe if the Desert storm generation would have had a n enemy like we faced in WW 2 they would have done the same thing and fought them valiantly. Look at the afghan war and second gulf war those were some inch by inch door to door slogs and our soldiers served admirably

a reply to: shooterbrody

Why label them anything. I agree with you any soldier that fights in a war deserves props.

originally posted by: HONROC

A soldier does not choose the tactics or the technology for the time in which they serve. You are throwing up a straw man with that argument. Like I said earlier, to use that logic then the greatest generation did not fight like the revolutionary war soldiers so they weren't as strong or brave? That is a ridiculous argument

And I am not putting them down, all i am pointing out is they stepped up and did their job just like the soldiers of today do

Life is much easier today, makes weaker people...do you agree? They had to overcome the greatest challenges compared to other generations, so they get the name. Now when another Gen comes along with greater challenges then they can take the lead, hasn't happen yet, not even close.

For you to say maybe they would do the same today or could be as good etc still is saying they actually didn't....

originally posted by: HONROC

A soldier does not get to choose the enemy or the war they fight in, I believe if the Desert storm generation would have had a n enemy like we faced in WW 2 they would have done the same thing and fought them valiantly. Look at the afghan war and second gulf war those were some inch by inch door to door slogs and our soldiers served admirably

Very few fought in that way and not day in and day out, we also have air, ground, tech superiority too. It wasn't 5000 of us facing 5000 of them in a fight to the death match where in many cases they had the better equipment. Outside of the First Battle of Fallujah there really wasn't the type of fighting you suggest. We lost 51 and had over 400 injured, and that was a typical easy day during WWII.

originally posted by: HONROC
a reply to: shooterbrody

Why label them anything. I agree with you any soldier that fights in a war deserves props.

Well, others have used terms to describe different generations.
Sorry that offends you.
What that group of people accomplished, needs no justification from anyone.
It appears, that threat, has been the greatest faced in the last century, and nothing has united the world in such a way since.
Or would you poopoo the threat as well?

originally posted by: HONROC

Why label them anything. I agree with you any soldier that fights in a war deserves props.

It wasn't just the war that made them the greatest...

originally posted by: HONROC
a reply to: Xtrozero

Yes, I do, just like Gen X stepped up after 9/11 and did what is right. I believe any generation would. Now, there will always be those that don't , just like during the "greatest generation" not everyone went and fought. But I believe that any generation when faced with a threat of the Axis or 9/11 levels will step up. If your logic was accurate then we would have no military today because it is mostly the young that make up the military and we have many Gen X, Millenial and Gen Z serving the military honorably today. The problem is not with the populace , it is with the gutless leadership on whether or not we choose to engage an enemy. When asked, I believe we have enough people that would step up to the challenge.

Sorry, but in my opinion, 9/11 is not in the same league with hitler and his holocaust.
In fact, the response to 9/11 may have been the biggest military blunder in history.
But ymmv.