Marauders - serious threat?

a reply to: JBurns

Did they actually tell you that was the goal of their group????

I Find it funny that you admit to spying on them and you call them marauder.

originally posted by: Breakthestreak
a reply to: conspiracytheoristIAM

The moral high ground, yep, that’s whats important here.

Let them in then

If that’s what your IQ tells you to do

The ‘moral high ground’ is not a real thing in those situations

Try feeding the remainder of your loved ones with ‘moral high ground’

My IQ tells me and escaped yours.........it's not my moral high ground. The moral high ground was expressed by the op,J Burns and his opinion of other groups in his area. His group is better cause they're not out to steal supplies from others.....they'll just ambush other groups they suspect of this dastardly deed. The truth of the matter is when things go hot, there are no rules....just as you implied.

a reply to: Lumenari

Think of moral highground as a survival tool.

Being friendly doesn't mean unable or unwilling to defend yourself and others...it means you'll be given a chance to prove you're a friend.

If you, in an EOTWAWKI situation, come knocking at my gate, looking for food, or a bit of shelter from the storm, I'm willing to entertain the notion. Either in trade for something they might have that I might need, or because I'm nice like that...I'm not, but it sounds good. We both profit from it.

Doesn't mean I won't bury them if forced to, it means I'll only do it if it becomes necessary.

Moral high ground is a thing, regardless of the situation. MHO, of course.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: conspiracytheoristIAM

Enjoy your moral high ground when you get ambushed, forced to watch your female family/friends raped before your eyes and then killed as they walk away from your corpse with all you own. That's if you are lucky.

Enjoy JBurn's moral high ground......he started it

a reply to: seagull

I had one idiot, I mean gentleman, tell me that all he'll need to do is breakdown some doors, and he'll have plenty of food, and other things...carefully leaving unsaid what those other things were, though the implication was crystal clear.

Sorry to hear that seagull, that is a disgusting thing for them to even imply. But I am most sorry for the idiot (I mean gentleman) who made that comment though. Based on what I know about you, attempting this would be his very last mistake. Me personally, I know there is nothing I wouldn't do to protect my loved ones from that kind of threat and us country folks know how to take care of our own...we been doing it our whole lives, had no other choice really. Our neighbors know they can count on us, and we on them

I know up here we don't have the benefit of nearby hospitals, if you get hurt its at least going to be an hour or more for a helicopter to come in and fly you to Pittsburgh. And law enforcement? They are great up here, best in the country in my eyes, but there are usually only two or three deputies on for the whole county in the evenings, and it could take 45 minutes or more for them to even reach us depending on how far out they are

My response was not conducive to continued amiable conversation...

Hear you loud & clear on that, my sentiments exactly

I informed him that he's a dead man walking with that sort of thought process... Perhaps not phrased quite so politely--but I made my point.

It is funny (sad really) that these folks believe other takers will not do the same to them. In reality they will just be rounding up supplies from good and ethical folks for the bigger, tougher marauders that will take it from them. That is of course until they make one mistake..slip up one single time and that is the end of them. Their life ended, punctuated on a stranger's doorstep who never did a single thing to them but will do anything to protect their loved ones from harm

Living as I do in a somewhat rural area of Alabama, many of us are at least semi-self sufficient as regards food, etc... Most of us would not take kindly to "takers" in the slightest. Though they'd make for great fertilizer.

Cheers to that As someone quite far out in the 'sticks' myself...I can only say this rings particularly true for me as well. Someone with that kind of intention would find armed & angry defenders on all sides of them in a hurry

originally posted by: Lumenari

originally posted by: conspiracytheoristIAM

originally posted by: Breakthestreak
a reply to: JBurns

Your very first action, in the event of sh#t hitting the fan, should be to attack that group en masse and relieve them of their supplies and armaments

Mercy is for the weak, if you allow any one of them to live to fight another day, then you will be fighting them another day


Your group sounds organised and prepared for them, but sympathy, empathy, trust, benefit of doubt and compassion are massive disadvantages when dealing with people who have none

Fire with fire, you’ll only have to do it the once

And you immediately have lost any moral high ground that you might have had and become what you were afraid of.

Survival has no moral high ground.

If you honestly think it does, then congratulations on your Darwin Award should TSHTF.

You need to scold Burns....it's not my moral high ground it's his.

It is not a moral high ground. Being a good, moral and ethical person is not a negative thing. It isn't a trick word or a loaded phrase. I am saying if it isn't your supplies and someone didn't offer it to you, how could you justify depriving someone else of the supplies they rightfully own?

Yes survival instinct is strong. But train to act on more than basic instincts. I know personally I will starve to death before I am responsible for depriving some poor little kid of their next meal. And I will give everything I can spare to those in need when that time comes. But ultimately, this is why we say prepare now!! before it happens. So you aren't faced with the ethical quandry of whether to feed yourself (or your family) and force someone else's to starve when that time comes you will already know because you already have a plan in place

You already have the supplies. Your water is clean. Your food is dry. And your firearms stand ready to protect the life you carved out for the ones you trust enough to let in

This is why group survival is so very important. You can pull resources, watch each other's backs. I'm not going to take a dump on anyone here for their own strategy. There is no way to know how you will react til something happens. But if you train in advance, make a conscious decision to be a good, sober, thoughtful and moral person you will fall back on your training and do the right thing

You say there is no moral high ground in a survival situation and in many ways you are correct. There is indeed no external moral high ground in such a situation that is true. But what about yourself? My own moral compass comes down to this... can I look in the mirror and say I did right by my family, my friends and my neighbors...and have I honored the oath I took so many years ago. Believe it or not, maintaining these types of structures in a survival situation is a benefit, it will help keep your mindset in a good place instead of dwelling on those you have hurt needlessly. I say needlessly because you can do something about it today, before the SHTF, by preparing!

No judgement from me. And taking pre-emptive action against hostile groups has a certain logic to it. The problem is, unless you have overwhelming numbers and a true advantage (ambush) how many members of your group/family are you prepared to lose to accomplish this? Chances are when you get in a gun fight where the other guy is shooting back at you, you are going to take rounds to your body. And if you have no medical aid readily available, that is not a good prognosis

Moral high ground

Well done Trudeau, “if you kill your enemies, they win”

Morons are morons

a reply to: conspiracytheoristIAM

We have no intention of ambushing anyone. That being said, if I saw such a group victimizing others it is very likely we would attempt to intervene. Unfortunately, you have to pick your battles in that kind of situation. Can we be certain of their strength and composition? What kind of weapons are they using and what skill level do they posess? Are the folks we are trying to "rescue" in on it, and part of an ambush to draw us out? There is no way to know that in advance

I will say we know a good deal about the groups that express this intention. What scares me are the ones who sit back, silently, preparing to take from others. Folks who will not hesitate to leave your family or mine without a drop of water, a shred of food and maybe take our lives for fun.

I don't claim to be the best human being. I'm not on any moral high ground. Trust me. But I know right from wrong, and it is not right to victimize people for your own benefit. Not because of any rule, written or otherwise. Certainly not to signal any virtues. I don't believe my group will ever have to find out how we would react, because we have prepared well enough, diversified our supplies and brought in the right people from the right places to have a strong chance at making it through hard times. We will survive together or go down together.

In any situation, I can promise you this. I will never be responsible for depriving a child of their next meal. I will never harm a human being simply for the sake of personal benefit. To me, even in SHTF/WROL, the same rules of engagement apply. Deadly force is not authorized just for fun. It is a last resort, to be used against a deadly threat who has the ability, the opportunity and the intent to cause serious bodily harm or death to myself or another person. If that is a moral high ground then so be it

Yes, I have children of my own. They are both young adults. But I know for a fact they would rather us find another way than to take what is not ours. We have discussed such things extensively. Its harder than you think to talk to your kids about this kind of thing, especially when its my job to protect them. But if it comes down to victimizing some poor innocent soul, I will have no part in it

I have no sympathy for hypothetical raiders, marauders, thieves and killers. If they come pounding at our door, believe me they will get a fight unlike anything they have experienced in their lives.

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: Lumenari

Think of moral highground as a survival tool.
Moral high ground is a thing, regardless of the situation. MHO, of course.

@conspiracytheoristIAM

The truth of the matter is when things go hot, there are no rules....just as you implied.

Both of you are right.

We will never survive if everyone that is just trying to make it, is the enemy. Survival will rely on people putting aside their differences, and working together, even if they don't like each other.

All rules will be eliminated when the SHTF, but in order to survive, we will have to establish new ones. We may even have to accept some rules that in a civil society, you would never go along with. In a life or death scenario, some of those sensibilities may have to be placed on the back burner.

A dead righteous man, provides no help or support, to himself or his family. Sometimes living to fight another day, at another time, is the only way out, in the moment.

I am am old broad. So I have lived my life. I would likely take the long walk, before I would take one crumb of bread out of the mouth of a child, or an able caregiver, and provider of the group. I don't think of death as the worse thing that can happen to me.

a reply to: NightSkyeB4Dawn

I am am old broad. So I have lived my life. I would likely take the long walk, before I would take one crumb of bread out of the mouth of a child, or an able caregiver, and provider of the group. I don't think of death as the worse thing that can happen to me.

Aside from the old broad part... I couldn't agree more.

I freely admit to being not the nicest person around, but hurt a child or a parent/guardian simply so I can eat? Never going to happen.

a reply to: JBurns

If you remember the old Motorola Radio Phones from the 70’s, it was a very easy to setup and maintain network with just a centralized repeater. We used something very similar until 2015-ish, with our primary repeater was on the Star 64 Tower (WIII TV64 Cincinnati) and (with a properly peaked and tuned radio) I could have a two way conversation in Florence, KY to Fairfield, OH and heard as far north as Vandalia, OH (Dayton International Airport) while down in Florence. But again, I had a very good radio because they would send me out beyond radio range regularly.

A word on the moral high ground...

You may find it to be more common than not. Because the big secret is, there is absolutely nothing holding people back right now. In fact, in a SHTF situation, there is less holding people back from just executing you on the the absolute slightest of offenses compared to today where they would lose their house, freedom, livelihood, etc.

My perfect example is those ice blue headlights that burn out your retinas. You can get away with those today. And people bitch and moan, but that’s it. SHTF...best not turn them on at all. People will be looking for payback from all those times they were blinded.

originally posted by: seagull
a reply to: Lumenari

Think of moral highground as a survival tool.

Being friendly doesn't mean unable or unwilling to defend yourself and others...it means you'll be given a chance to prove you're a friend.

If you, in an EOTWAWKI situation, come knocking at my gate, looking for food, or a bit of shelter from the storm, I'm willing to entertain the notion. Either in trade for something they might have that I might need, or because I'm nice like that...I'm not, but it sounds good. We both profit from it.

Doesn't mean I won't bury them if forced to, it means I'll only do it if it becomes necessary.

Moral high ground is a thing, regardless of the situation. MHO, of course.

I highly suggest you buy the card game "Conflicted" and play it with your friends.

And then find out what they think about the subject.

I've spent the last 20 years putting myself in a good situation if TSHTF.

I've thought about all angles.

I understand what you are saying...

But I also have lived real life situations that suggest that at the end of the day, your own mother will stab you to death in the middle of the night for the last can of spam.

The survival instinct is a very deep and very powerful thing.

Underestimate it at your own peril.

a reply to: JBurns

Disregard these marauder types all you want. But history shows that “TAKING” is always easier than actually working for something.

Let's forget morals for a moment, since the definition is nebulous. Moral for one is not necessarily moral for another.

"You dance with who brung ya."

Humans survive by being smarter than the competition. Stronger is nice, faster is nice, but the Nature/God given gift of humans is our ability to out-think the competition. We have driven a lot of species to extinction by out-thinking them. So far, the greatest threat to humanity are the species that can reproduce faster than we can kill them.

As a short term strategy, taking what you need from others may be effective. But, just like communism and socialism, taking from others has its limits: eventually, you run out of others to take from.

Any "marauder" group will face eventual extinction. If they don't realize that, they deserve to be extinct.

Personally, they may take my stuff. I'll do my best to kill as many as possible, but they are all doomed anyway. In a SHTF scenario, the people who I want to be with are the ones who can make things, fix things, create things, etc. If the fate of the human race is left up to the takers, then maybe the human race should go extinct. That's not the sort of creature I want roaming around the Universe.

a reply to: JBurns

It is a great topic, one we have discussed a few times. Here is a real good thread on it from years ago.



Raiders, Marauders, And You - Things To Be Aware Of Before SHTF (Especially Mormons)

www.abovetopsecret.com...

RAIDER MENTALITY:

On this very site shortly after I signed up there was a poll where about a third of the respondents claimed they would be a raider NOW. The way my mental math works, the two thirds who think they're all moral and ethical now...probably had a full tummy and most really do not have all their things in order....NOW.

Which leads me to believe on this site the real numbers are over half the people being raiders and as far as the rest of the totally not prepared world, I'd say the real numbers of raiders to non would be....the majority.

The sad truth is that everyone here and everyone that reads this will become the "bad guy" when they or their wife and kids are starving. Those of you that believe your morals are too high to plunder, steal and yes, even kill for food when you have none are only kidding yourselves. Oh, I would never do that.....BS!

MORMONS:

(appear to be the biggest target to these survival board members) Members of the LDS Church are supposed to have a year's worth of food stored up and too many people think being religious means being unarmed. Would-be raiders might think to start out by raiding a Temple, getting member records, and then paying visits, if they don't already know which of their neighbors are Mormons.

(On another board, I read a post about how a secret prepper was chatting with his neighbor about hard times and possible disasters, and the neighbor came out and said "Hey, I'm not worried. X down the street is a Mormon. If anything goes wrong, I'll just take my gun and take what he's got". The prepper - once he got over the shock - suggested that might not be a good idea as X was also a gun nut, which kind of took the neighbor back. The prepper later put the neighbor on his list of people to look out for in a crisis, and also had a chat with X about the folks on the street where they lived...)

"we will head towards Utah them mormons have food. been storing it for years. many of us in Utah have also been storing ammo for years...just a thought

Five seconds after the SHTF event My friend will be at the grocery store and then the pharmacy long before everyone figures out what is happening.

Next I am going to a Mormons house for the 3 month supply of food.


FARMING:

Farmers - Another possibility is they intend to drive out and raid farms and ranches, convinced that such places must be full of food. Don't know what they think they'll do with a silo full of grain, or a bunch of cows or hogs; especially since I doubt any of them know squat about butchering or meat preservation. Food preparation, either. Raider wanna-bes seldom impress me with their smarts or foresight. Which is probably why they're raider wanna-bes.

Plant a garden......another joke in the short term before most have died off. How long does it take most crops to mature.....90 days? Let's say you grow tomatoes or whatever and there are millions of people who haven't done any prepping and they are starving, what happens? Right, they raid your garden, maybe by the hundreds. Bottom line, unless you are going to shoot everyone, those hoards of starving people are going to take your garden by storm.

And, you raise livestock? OK, how long you think Bessie the cow is going to last when people are starving? You won't have a chicken left.

This is what I'm talking about, but you see, the country is only the country because all the city slickers are in the city. Where do you think they are gonna come when the city isn't a resource anymore? Where do you think they are coming where food is running in the woods?

HUNTING:

All of a sudden everyone becomes a great hunter is just another Fantasy! Unless some calamity strikes, that knocks down almost every human, hunting for food after TEOTWAWKI is a recipe for starvation. I get a large percentage of my meat supply from hunting and fishing. During a good year, I fill my freezers early, and everyone else that hunts nearby has worse luck... if they get lucky, I don't. This last year, floods pushed out all the deer, and people miles away harvested them.

Whitetails were exterminated in my part of E Texas (whole region) during the Great Depression. They were missing until the mid-50's when the State had meetings and made agreements with people to not kill them for so many years, till they reached stable populations. My father told a story about during the later years of WWII someone saw a deer track... the community got together, put dogs on the trail, and two days later ran the deer down... they killed it and ate it right there... and another decade passed before the State restocked em.

All large game will disappear in weeks. Without rules and regulations (and wardens to enforce the rules), starving people will spotlight em, and kill every single animal they see.
At the end of 'legal season', deer are mighty scarce... and that's with recreational non-starving hunters.

I think you're missing my point. When the white tails go, the guys that hunted them don't stop...they keep going. We will be an overpopulated, well armed species that animals are not adapted to defend against. We will kill them faster than they can reproduce, we almost do it on accident now as it is.

There will NOT be enough wild game to be hunted for any extended period of time, unless a large populations of humans are apart of the crisis.

But, maybe you can fish and hunt for food? You and a million others. And I can just see you and a multitude of others lined up at the river/lake and when you finally catch a big ole catfish, you will be mobbed. You'll have to shoot your way out.

I was speaking to Urban Preppers as well. Which half of the city slickers do you think is going to be scarier, the half that died, or the resilient half that figured out how to survive in a place with no wild game; i.e. well armed, large numbered group of possibly trained people who are coming to where the food is. And if you live in Texas, which is mostly privately owned...they are going to be coming to your private property.

Don't count on hunting, you may end up as dinner -

a reply to: Lumenari

Underestimate the "dark side" of human nature?

When I was a child, maybe I would have. Now? Much less likely. Still up in the air as to whether or not that's a good thing...

I am not, by nature, a trusting person. It takes some doing for me to trust someone, especially from outside my very small circle of family and friends. But I'm also not inclined to "shoot first, ask later", either.

That card game sounds interesting, though, I'll have to check it out.

a reply to: JBurns

I bet that group that you think are marauders, think that you are a marauder.

You should have a maraud off.

originally posted by: Breakthestreak
a reply to: JBurns

Your very first action, in the event of sh#t hitting the fan, should be to attack that group en masse and relieve them of their supplies and armaments

Mercy is for the weak, if you allow any one of them to live to fight another day, then you will be fighting them another day

Your group sounds organised and prepared for them, but sympathy, empathy, trust, benefit of doubt and compassion are massive disadvantages when dealing with people who have none

Fire with fire, you’ll only have to do it the once

Words a marauder would say.

a reply to: JBurns

Reading up on countries that have imploded in the past also gives great insight into human nature and how the people that survived managed to do so.


You have to flee.

Having your own fortified territory seems like a great idea until you realize that you have merely determined your last stand.

On the flipside of that coin most threats will neutralize themselves due to lack of basic necessities.


Those that do survive won't be ragtag either but efficient and ruthless.