NASA is studying UFOs again

originally posted by: Ophiuchus1
The tethered satellite can’t possibly be that close to the camera...otherwise the tethered would have to be tiny...I suspect.

Don't trust your eyes, your brain, or in this case or the case of the "pyramid" video, you can't really trust the camera either. If you had read my post, you would see I already explained that was debunked by UFO Hunters. Here's the video; the latter portion beginning at time index 4:15 is the debunking.

NASA STS-75 Tether 'UFO' Incident 1996 - Debunked

originally posted by: JimOberg

originally posted by: Ophiuchus1

originally posted by: Arbitrageur .....Astronauts always zoom in on "ice particles" because there so rare.

Are those “ice particles” as well for STS-75? .....from behind the tether? If so, then at the distance of the tether, they should not be considered particles. Those would be huge.

Since you know the length of the tether, and its distance from the shuttle, assume the objects are really behind it. Then calculate how BIG they would look to people down on Earth, as they passed over millions and millions of people. Do the math. NOTE: the moon is half a degree wide as viewed from Earth, how big would these allegedly-behind-the-tether spheres look in comparison?

And since you want to do the tether, let's agree on basics: the dot swarm video is not "uncut" as is claimed, it
is dubbed together with the breakaway scene followed FOUR DAYS LATER by the swarm scene. Do you accept that timeline?

I don’t know the devil in the details to accept the timeline. In addition i don’t purport to know any of the tether/satellite package dimensions. I based my questions of ice particles, based on what Arbi said about it in his post.

originally posted by: Ophiuchus1
The tethered satellite can’t possibly be that close to the camera...otherwise the tethered would have to be tiny...I suspect.

Look at the TV image of the thickness of the tether. It's miles long and telephone-cord thick. Why do you suppose it looks so much fatter?

a reply to: Arbitrageur

originally posted by: JimOberg

originally posted by: Ophiuchus1
The tethered satellite can’t possibly be that close to the camera...otherwise the tethered would have to be tiny...I suspect.

Look at the TV image of the thickness of the tether. It's miles long and telephone-cord thick. Why do you suppose it looks so much fatter?

I see in a video, STS-75 with a tether, I see objects going behind the tether, I ask basically how could those be ice particles.

Factoid on the STS-75 tether...

“STS-75 mission scientists hoped to deploy the tether to a distance of 20.7 kilometers (12.9 mi). Over 19 kilometers of the tether were deployed (over a period of 5 hours) before the tether broke.”

It has to be at a distance from the camera at that unraveling length ... zooming from the camera brings it close. I can red arrow other donuts goin behind the tether....



Saying that those are ice particles at a perceived distance shown in the vid, albeit an unknown distance, I would not say they are ice particles.... (if “particles” can be defined as the size +/- of a thumbnail so to speak.)

It’s a tough buy for me to accept “ice particles” when they are in donut ufo shapes.....I would expect all different irregular shapes

By the way below is STS-75.....where is either end with either the tether unspooler or satellite in the video for that matter? ..let me guess, what’s shown in the video is a floating length of broken tether I presume hmmmm.....yes I know when it snapped, the tether also broke into several pieces.....alrighty

a reply to: karl 12

Must be real easy to travel FTL with all these claims of numerous types of craft and aliens.
So much so that Einsteins relativity theory must be wrong. *End Sarcasm*

If something is out there and is not man made i can only come-up with three other possibilities:

1: The UFO's originate from Earth ( in or on including the deep oceans).

2: They come from with in our solar system .( ruling out multiple different alien species)

3: Somehow other dimensions exist and Aliens from there have learned how to break through to our dimension.

You see its all a bit far fetched i think... Im not denying that our Universe is likely filled with isolated civilisations
just difficult to accept that all of them can travel interstellar space to visit our Earth and not even say Hi ..

No it seems rather silly .

Why do the UFOs from the tether incident look remarkably similar to the recent released photograph from the Virginia Navy?

Link

The tether was huge, 500 meters, over 5 football fields.

originally posted by: game over man
Why do the UFOs from the tether incident look remarkably similar to the recent released photograph from the Virginia Navy?

Link

The tether was huge, 500 meters, over 5 football fields.

Long or wide or distant?

originally posted by: Ophiuchus1
It has to be at a distance from the camera at that unraveling length ... zooming from the camera brings it close. I can red arrow other donuts goin behind the tether....

That illusion is demonstrated in the debunking video I posted, did you watch it? I already said you can't trust the camera in this case, yet did you heed my caution? The UFO Hunters video shows a simulated object going in front of the simulated tether, and it looks like it passes behind the tether, just like in the NASA video.

It’s a tough buy for me to accept “ice particles” when they are in donut ufo shapes.....I would expect all different irregular shapes

I already explained that too. They are all donuts for the same reason these are all triangles, that's how bokeh works. The shape of out of focus lights is the shape of a part of the camera system, not the actual shape of the objects:

Bokeh tests


That's the same reason in the Navy "pyramid" UFO video, not only is the UFO a triangle, but the stars are too, once it goes out of focus. Stars aren't really shaped like triangles which must be the shape of the aperture.

originally posted by: game over man
Why do the UFOs from the tether incident look remarkably similar to the recent released photograph from the Virginia Navy?

Link

I am not seeing much similarity. The tether things have a donut shape and I'm not seeing a donut shape in that picture, looks more like a distorted bubble than a donut.

The "donut-shaped" objects in the tether video I'm sure are out of focus, the video provides sufficient information to confirm this. I can't tell for sure if the UFO in that navy photo is out of focus. They should make a video of UFOs, instead of a single photo. A video contains much more information.

originally posted by: Arbitrageur

That illusion is demonstrated in the debunking video I posted, did you watch it? I already said you can't trust the camera in this case, yet did you heed my caution? The UFO Hunters video shows a simulated object going in front of the simulated tether, and it looks like it passes behind the tether, just like in the NASA video.

It’s a tough buy for me to accept “ice particles” when they are in donut ufo shapes............I already explained that too. They are all donuts for the same reason these are all triangles, that's how bokeh works. The shape of out of focus lights is the shape of a part of the camera system, not the actual shape of the objects:

I did watch the debunk vid.....but I’m not convinced.

I’m not buying the debunk experiment. It’s plainly not the same conditions and environment in which the actual footage was being recorded. The attempt to duplicate it on earth is not genuine, imo.

Yes, we can come up with all types of fixtures and setups to attempt to show what and how the camera could have recorded for the vid to look that way... but by nuts and bolts, that is to say not having the same camera, and hardware used, it’s just not a 1:1 replication.

Here’s a transcript below taken from the Houston Columbia communications in the first portion of the debunk video. There is dialogue that is suspect to me...but I’ll address that some other time. For now I’ll agree to disagree about the round objects that I’ve been calling donuts only because of what appears to be an inner diameter in a large percentage of these things that I just don’t believe to be “ice particles” .... look at the dialogue... when asked by Houston to describe what he see’s.... Claude calls the objects ...Debris. He’s a professional, part of his training should have included what he might see in space to identify it correctly based on all the previous missions of the shuttle’s .....but he doesn’t say “ice particles” which would have been a much more precise identification than generic debris. I’ll revisit later....and yes, according to Houston the objects are mentioned in the foreground of the tether. I still question that despite the debunk and pyramid theories.


The transcript:
Begin Debunk Video... early portion is Communications between Houston and Columbia

Houston: Columbia and the satellite now 77 nautical miles apart, in that call reporting that ah the crew can see the Tether and see the satellite. It's beautiful.

Houston: This view showing ah, the satellite again, just moving to sunrise. 81 nautical miles now from Columbia.

Columbia: Guys getting the image?

Houston: (others in the background) Not good enough....What?

Houston: Franklin, we see a long line, couple of star like things and a lot of things swimming in the foreground. Can you describe what you're seeing?

Columbia: Well the long line is, ah, is the tether um and the, there's a little bit of debris that ah kind of flies with us and ah it's illuminated by the Sun. There's a lot of shade light is getting washed out quickly but Scott is trying to do a quick good job adjusting the camera?

Houston: Copy that.

Houston: In that description by the crew. This is the Tether in the satellite, the satellite with 12 approximately, 12 miles of Tether still attached to it. Columbia and the satellite and now just passing over the West Coast of Northern Africa, the two spacecraft are now 90 nautical miles apart. Controllers for the satellite did have communications with it during the close pass between Columbia and the satellite.

Houston: Columbia Houston. That's a much better view, a lot more contrast visible. And how wide does that Tether appear to be? It seems to resemble a much wider strand than we'd expect. Can you describe which way the satellite is visible on that strand?

Houston: Satellite now 100 nautical miles

Columbia: we're completely out of zoom and you see the full extent of the tether, I tried to adjust the focus, but I can't get better than this.

Houston: Okay Claude, thank you.

Columbia: But the zoom is out......

originally posted by: Ophiuchus1
I did watch the debunk vid.....but I’m not convinced.

I’m not buying the debunk experiment.

OK well just so you know, the crew on that show was fairly credulous and willing to stretch facts in order to promote the UFO mystery, that is what gets the viewers interested in the show after all and it helps ratings. So if they thought they could question the debunk, I think they would.

But let's assume for a minute the debunk is wrong and the UFOs are actually passing behind the tether as they appear. Do you accept the stated distance to the tether? Do you know how long the tether is? And from that, can you estimate how large the UFOs would have to be to be seen that size passing behind the tether? Would they be large enough to be visible from the Earth's surface, and did anybody there see them?

They were not seen from the ground, right? So, that should show that your rejection of the debunk has some problems.

originally posted by: JimOberg

originally posted by: game over man
Why do the UFOs from the tether incident look remarkably similar to the recent released photograph from the Virginia Navy?

Link

The tether was huge, 500 meters, over 5 football fields.

Long or wide or distant?

Long...Per Google satellite tether is 500 m in length. Why would there be ice crystals in space?

originally posted by: Arbitrageur

originally posted by: Ophiuchus1
I did watch the debunk vid.....but I’m not convinced.

I’m not buying the debunk experiment.

OK well just so you know, the crew on that show was fairly credulous and willing to stretch facts in order to promote the UFO mystery, that is what gets the viewers interested in the show after all and it helps ratings. So if they thought they could question the debunk, I think they would.

But let's assume for a minute the debunk is wrong and the UFOs are actually passing behind the tether as they appear. Do you accept the stated distance to the tether? Do you know how long the tether is? And from that, can you estimate how large the UFOs would have to be to be seen that size passing behind the tether? Would they be large enough to be visible from the Earth's surface, and did anybody there see them?

They were not seen from the ground, right? So, that should show that your rejection of the debunk has some problems.

Indeed they would be ginormous. Ground based radars would have picked up on the flurry and they would have been visually noticeable by a drunken bum on the park bench. Yes, my rejection has some problems. Touché

My only other out would be, if they were in proximity of the camera......and since their trajectories were going every which a way.....by appearance, they might have been living organisms that have yet to be identified. You would know that microbial life were growing on glass of the ISS....if that’s possible then some micro life doesn’t need oxygen in space.

“ In 2020, Japanese researchers found that pellets of dried bacteria stuck to the exterior of the station were able to survive in space for more than three years. Nicknamed Conan the Bacterium for its ability to endure extreme conditions, it's thought the bacteria would withstand interplanetary travel.”

originally posted by: game over man
Long...Per Google satellite tether is 500 m in length. Why would there be ice crystals in space?

Some of them are urine crystals. The following video shows a dump of waste water, but I think even when they are not making a dump like this, sometimes the dump nozzle can leak a little bit so you might get some ice particles even when they aren't making an intentional dump:

STS-125 - Waste Water Dump from Payload Bay Cameras


There can also be other sources of "space dandruff" so to Ophi's point about debris versus ice, debris is a more general term. Probably most of it is ice, but there could be some paint flecks too.

If you're curious you can look up the STS-75 records to see when they did their waste water dumps, but I think they made such a dump not long before the tether video. Those particles will orbit with the orbiter for some time immediately after the dump.

originally posted by: Ophiuchus1
Indeed they would be ginormous. Ground based radars would have picked up on the flurry and they would have been visually noticeable by a drunken bum on the park bench. Yes, my rejection has some problems. Touché

Good job. In the right lighting conditions, even those teeny tiny ice particles close to the camera can be seen from Earth if there are massive quantities of them like the following photo shows, so imagine if these things were a million times bigger or whatever like they would have to be to be that big behind the tether:

Space Shuttle Unleashes Magnificent Plume of Pee

originally posted by: Arbitrageur

originally posted by: game over man
Long...Per Google satellite tether is 500 m in length. Why would there be ice crystals in space?

Some of them are urine crystals. The following video shows a dump of waste water, but I think even when they are not making a dump like this, sometimes the dump nozzle can leak a little bit so you might get some ice particles even when they aren't making an intentional dump:

STS-125 - Waste Water Dump from Payload Bay Cameras

This vid is a prankster’s screensaver in the making

a reply to: Arbitrageur

Ok so what I'm understanding, when astronauts go pee, since they are in zero gravity the pee stays in little droplets instead of forming a pool in where ever the pee is kept. Then it's released into space where it instantly crystalizes in droplet form, and will remain very close to the camera on the STS.

These frozen pee droplets will then fly in all different directions inches away from the camera? Until they do what? How long can the frozen pee droplets last in space?

Can anyone explain why the supposed ice crystals are doughnut shaped and pulsating? Is the shape only an optical illusion? Because they don't appear to be rotating such that sun light would account for the pulsing/flashing.

I'm not claiming this or that, just curious.

originally posted by: game over man
a reply to: Arbitrageur

Ok so what I'm understanding, when astronauts go pee, since they are in zero gravity the pee stays in little droplets instead of forming a pool in where ever the pee is kept.

I'm not an astronaut pee expert but I would say no, I don't know where you are getting these ideas from about pee staying in little droplets, it's collected in a storage container which contains bulk liquid, not little droplets, I presume.

Then it's released into space where it instantly crystalizes in droplet form, and will remain very close to the camera on the STS.

The liquid waste from the shuttle was expelled from a dump nozzle, that nozzle is what made the tiny droplets.

These frozen pee droplets will then fly in all different directions inches away from the camera? Until they do what? How long can the frozen pee droplets last in space?

How long they can last depends. If they are in shade I would imagine a long time. If you watch the STS-125 dump video you will see huge quantities of particles, most go in the primary direction seen in that video. The quantity seen in the tether video may seem like a lot without any context but in comparison to the total quantity of the dumped particles, it's just a relatively small amount so they are just a small number of strays. See the photo of the urine dump seen from Earth, which gives you an idea of a minimum time they must last even if they are sunlit, since they form a very long trail and an orbit is something like 90 minutes.

originally posted by: Skeletonized
Can anyone explain why the supposed ice crystals are donut shaped and pulsating? Is the shape only an optical illusion? Because they don't appear to be rotating such that sun light would account for the pulsing/flashing.

The reason they are donut shaped is the same reason you wouldn't be able to see rotation, they are out of focus. The donut shape is an artifact caused by the type of lens they used combined with the fact they are out of focus. It's called "bokeh".

a reply to: Arbitrageur

Yeah well, they have that wedge along the circumference that might be used as a rotational gauge. They don't seem to rotate on their axis tbh. Another thing, I thought even the smallest particle would cause huge amounts of damage to our spacecraft. Is this seriously normal up there? A sea of pulsating, doughnut-shaped ice particles whipping around everywhere at different speeds? If that is indeed what they are, I assume they would be everywhere, including right by the shuttle. Kinda hard to dodge all those I would think.

I mean, I sure as hell can't prove anything, but I'm not sold on the ice crystal idea at all really. And bokeh? Maybe, but I'm getting mighty tired of seeing that pushed around at every corner nowadays. I admit that I'm plagued by confirmation bias and science fiction-esque scenarios that makes me lean toward a hopeful revelation of alien visitation (yes, I'm that gullible). However, the same applies for many a soul around here that stands on the opposite debunkers barricade proclaiming that any who say they've witnessed objects that defy known laws are either idiots or bad observers. That list of witnesses is pretty long now I would imagine. Do all of them need glasses? Are they all inept at reading sensor data? Does that include everyone else involved that shares the encounters from different vantage points?

With the increasing discussion about this issue in the MSM and usual players, so also does the debunker activity increase to counter it. Often in a very dismissive way I might add.