The hard problem of consciousness

The hard problem of consciousness asks the following question : how can the world of matter give rise to the world of consciousness ? How can the realm of quantities give rise to the realm of qualities ? How can you explain and describe joy, sadness, the smell of garlic, the taste of vanilla, the red color, a headache, etc.., in terms of neurons and synapses and electrochemical activity, in terms of atoms and electrons ? David Chalmers introduced the term "hard problem of consciousness" in the 90s.

This isn't just some trivial problem that would be resolved by learning more about subatomic particles, but it is a real deep problem because it's trying to explain how something can completely change its nature and become something totally and fundamentally different.

Personally I believe it will never happen, not because humans aren't smart enough, but because the principles on which this hard problem stands are wrong. It is postulating that matter is the fundamental substance in this universe and as such it must give rise to everything else, consciousness included. What if it's not the case ? What if consciousness is not in matter, but matter is in consciousness ?

We must remember at all times that whatever we see, we touch, we think about, we feel, etc.., it is always in consciousness. It is the beginning and the end of every human activity. Nothing is ever out of consciousness.

What do you say ?

Why are you presuming that physical life led to conciousesness? Could it not have been the consciousness that developed first, then made the physical to inhabit for a time?

No way of proving ether theory.

originally posted by: beyondknowledge
Why are you presuming that physical life led to conciousesness? Could it not have been the consciousness that developed first, then made the physical to inhabit for a time?

No way of proving ether theory.

did you even read the post?
how did you come to that conclusion?

gosseyn: i've had over 1000 Out of body experiences through mediation. I'm 120% positive consciousness creates reality and not the other way around.

I'm also convinced that the scientists at the very top know this but want to keep it a secret from humanity in order to keep making money off their sicknesses, and materialistic, consuming way of life.

So many scientists over the years have said this, but are ostracized from the scientific community. Unfortunately science has become a religion.

If it's not peer reviewed people will never accept it. We live in backwards world.

Science sees things one way and religion from another perspective. They are looking at the same thing but describing it with different words just as two individuals would.

I have a ball in my hand. One person describes it as smooth, round and looks heavy, assuming it is solid. Another person describes it as red, pretty, and squishey, assuming it is hollow rubber. Nether has touched the ball. Who is correct?

I suspect that consciousness is not produced by the brain, but that the brain is just a transducer for consciousness...which is elsewhere. We are like a dreamer in a dream state - that dreamer never thinks about where he/she really is...until he/she wakes up.

originally posted by: beyondknowledge
Science sees things one way and religion from another perspective. They are looking at the same thing but describing it with different words just as two individuals would.

I have a ball in my hand. One person describes it as smooth, round and looks heavy, assuming it is solid. Another person describes it as red, pretty, and squishey, assuming it is hollow rubber. Nether has touched the ball. Who is correct?

But it should not be the role of science to tell what things are. It is the role of philosophy. Science doesn't care if the things it deals with are made of pure consciousness or made of something completely different called matter. Science deals with the behaviors and the scientific method is about setting up experiments, observing the effects and trying to achieve some amount of predictability. Whether atoms and electrons are a product of our conscious perception, or are a fundamentally different substance than consciousness, science doesn't care, or shouldn't care.

originally posted by: beyondknowledge
Why are you presuming that physical life led to conciousesness? Could it not have been the consciousness that developed first, then made the physical to inhabit for a time?

No way of proving ether theory.

It's not me who is presuming, but the people who defend materialism/physicalism, which is the mainstream view among scientists and the general population.

yeah it's kinda like saying radio waves are produced by the radio when in actuality the waves are being received and translated by the radio.

Instead of the radio we have a brain.

this is why manifesting your own reality is possible.

There is no doubt that individual humans experience life differently, both mentally and physically. We can not prove where consciousness is located. So in one way it is everywhere, or it is just in each human. We know we cannot walk in front of a speeding train, so we know a lot about physics. Current physics doesn't conclude the matter is solid. Isn't it like 99% "space"? Also we have learned that sub-atomic particles act very unpredictably. I think that both exist simultaneously. Where ever consciousness comes from it "IS", and our physical/material world "IS".

a reply to: gosseyn

What if consciousness is not in matter, but matter is in consciousness ?

What if?
Did you make any progress or is it the same as your last thread in a slightly new dress?

David Chalmers, aye? From 2020:

Integrated information, huh...

a reply to: gosseyn

"Anyone who looks closely at the inward nature and essence will find that nobody is further from true wisdom than those people with their grand titles, learned bonnets, splendid sashes and bejeweled rings, who profess to be wisdom’s peak."

a reply to: gosseyn

Everything we see, touch, and feel is exterior to us. “Conscious” is an adjective that describes a living being. Adding the suffix “ness” behind it does not make a quality a substance, and it especially doesn’t make it an all pervading one.

originally posted by: CitizenZero
a reply to: gosseyn

Everything we see, touch, and feel is exterior to us. “Conscious” is an adjective that describes a living being. Adding the suffix “ness” behind it does not make a quality a substance, and it especially doesn’t make it an all pervading one.

Are you aware that even materialism/physicalism admits that all these experiences happen inside your skull ?

a reply to: gosseyn

Indeed, there's no separation in a closed system between any of its energy. Isolating consciousness to the brain is just an illusion and attempt to localise information.

a reply to: CitizenZero

no. nothing is exterior to us. It is all interior. Learn to meditate and prove it to yourself. There is no way to show you with our current level of technology.

This documentary is awesome.
duckduckgo.com...
massive advances in science always come from the fringe. Never from academia.

The questions you ask are explained in great depth in THIS. HERE is a brief collection of some of the references to matter within it. Try searching for "matter" in the search box at the top right of the first link. It looks like there are 421 results for it within the book.

Does matter : matter ?

In the world of things : or beyond thingness ?

Scientists and QM researchers, have said that they can't get behind consciousness.
That consciousness appears to be fundamental to the physical universe.

Am only partly conscious, so don't know nothing myself.

a reply to: gosseyn

"We must remember at all times that whatever we see, we touch, we think about, we feel, etc.., it is always in consciousness. It is the beginning and the end of every human activity. Nothing is ever out of consciousness."

-except when we are unconscious.

True, even that ...is an alternate form of same.

Therefore? Logic demands a mutual agreement by definition: both are with, and with-out. Yet both exist.

Both? Both are one. In Astral Projection or Meditation...we call it the greater "ALL" or the ID...or Akashic Record...or ETHER...or Collective Consciousness.

a reply to: BorisBadInOff

Im with you on that.

I also think that to know the answer will probably be one of humanities final discoveries about ourselves.

I do believe something similar to quantum entanglement is at play here but my brain is not up to the task of extrapolating on that.

a reply to: booyakasha

no. nothing is exterior to us. It is all interior. Learn to meditate and prove it to yourself. There is no way to show you with our current level of technology.

You must be talking to yourself then. But we know from thousands of years of medical experience that no world exists inside a human being.