Remains of 215 children found buried at former B.C. residential school

originally posted by: Atsbhct

originally posted by: AaarghZombies
a reply to: dug88

Just to put this into context.

This isn't just something that happened to indigenous people.

there were similar "schools" in places like Ireland run by similar organizations. Often for unmarried mothers. They've found all kinds of mass graves there.

www.theguardian.com...

Institutions from that time period have terrible reputations.

Why are you trying so hard to diminish it? It's awful that it happened at all, to anyone. It doesn't need "context" that it happened to other people too.

I think maybe the poster just needs to do a bit of research, I'm guessing he/she is not aware the depth of what happened those years..hell, I don't even understand the depths of what happened. Unless you lived it..kinda thing.

a reply to: AaarghZombies

I went to school for 12 years.

During that time one child in the school passed away.

Not 3 a year equaling 36 kids.

Does that not sound like a high number?

originally posted by: LSU2018

originally posted by: vonclod

originally posted by: AaarghZombies

originally posted by: vonclod

originally posted by: AaarghZombies
a reply to: dug88

Do we know how old these bodies are, or over how long a period they were buried?

Are we talking a couple of children dying each year over 200 years, or a couple of children a week over a much shorter period of time?

Do we know the causes of death?

Murder, malnutrition, or smallpox outbreak?

It will take time for all that, and at this site, it happened, over a 70 year period. All in unmarked graves..not shady at all. The bodies are still in the ground..I believe, so, we are talking a huge forensic investigation to come. I imagine they will be looking at other sites now.

Unmarked graves is pretty much the norm for that kind of institution . It happens even if they are well run and above board. They used to be called pauper's graves, and you find them all over the place from prisons to public cemeteries. It's more a symbol of poverty than abuse. They may have had simple wooden grave markers originally that simply rotted away. Without a family to pay for a headstone or the upkeep of a grave this was the best that a lot of poor could expect.

These days people like this are often cremated, and they don't even get an unmarked grave. Old man in a housing project dies, no family, no friends, the state burns the body and scatters the ashes with maybe a minimal ceremony.

215 people over a 70 year period, that's around 3 deaths a year.

I don't want to sound heartless, but that's not particularly bad. These were poor children living in close quarters. Suicide and communicable diseases, plus it probably wasn't very well heated in the winter so add influenza and pneumonia to that, and you're safely within the confines of the expected death rate for simply being poor.

You'd get a worse death rate in a modern inner city high school simply from gang crime and suicides. The big difference is that the parent would be given the bodies.

You understand that children were taken from their parents right? these were not orphans. The church considered them savages, and treated them accordingly. Nope, this is not acceptable, never was, not going to be now.

ETA I should also point out the govts involvement as well.

I was about to ask how the parents didn't know about their kids and what kind of excuses they heard. The only one that would have flown, really, would have been that the child ran away during recess or something. So if the kids were taken from their parents, where did they stay? At the school?

Yes, at the school's, more like reformatory/prison for children. When children did escape/run away, they were often recaptured.

ETA, I should add, they were punished when recaptured, some very bad stuff, also, the schools were often far from where home was.

originally posted by: Atsbhct

originally posted by: AaarghZombies

originally posted by: vonclod

originally posted by: AaarghZombies
a reply to: dug88

Do we know how old these bodies are, or over how long a period they were buried?

Are we talking a couple of children dying each year over 200 years, or a couple of children a week over a much shorter period of time?

Do we know the causes of death?

Murder, malnutrition, or smallpox outbreak?

It will take time for all that, and at this site, it happened, over a 70 year period. All in unmarked graves..not shady at all. The bodies are still in the ground..I believe, so, we are talking a huge forensic investigation to come. I imagine they will be looking at other sites now.

Unmarked graves is pretty much the norm for that kind of institution . It happens even if they are well run and above board. They used to be called pauper's graves, and you find them all over the place from prisons to public cemeteries. It's more a symbol of poverty than abuse. They may have had simple wooden grave markers originally that simply rotted away. Without a family to pay for a headstone or the upkeep of a grave this was the best that a lot of poor could expect.

These days people like this are often cremated, and they don't even get an unmarked grave. Old man in a housing project dies, no family, no friends, the state burns the body and scatters the ashes with maybe a minimal ceremony.

215 people over a 70 year period, that's around 3 deaths a year.

I don't want to sound heartless, but that's not particularly bad. These were poor children living in close quarters. Suicide and communicable diseases, plus it probably wasn't very well heated in the winter so add influenza and pneumonia to that, and you're safely within the confines of the expected death rate for simply being poor.

You'd get a worse death rate in a modern inner city high school simply from gang crime and suicides. The big difference is that the parent would be given the bodies.

These were children who were stolen or coerced from their families; beaten, maimed, starved, killed if they didn't conform.

These weren't "poor" children. They were indigenous children caught up in the government and catholics churches efforts to cleanse Canada of native beliefs.

My cousin went to one of the very last ones as a child. He told me a story of a girl who was almost 16, she used some Mikmaq words while a nun was listening. The nun choked her until the girl passed out. She just left her there outside. The girl woke up and ran home and hid on the reservation until she was too old to be sent back.

And things like that happened all the time. I have no doubt that the Church officials were more involved in the deaths of these children than just digging "paupers graves".

You said the children were stolen or coerced from their families. Then your cousin knows of a child who was choked out and left on the ground, but then she was able to run home and stay there until she was too old to go back to school. If she was able to run home, why didn't others band together and run away? I'm directing that question at you, I'm just curious as to why they didn't run home. I would have ran away at the first chance and tried to get as many small kids as I could to safety.

a reply to: Charliebrowndog

It can be the same way in nursing homes as well. Not so much the unmarked graves and such, but evil people will take advantage of weaker people without hesitation.

originally posted by: AaarghZombies
a reply to: dug88

Just to put this into context.

This isn't just something that happened to indigenous people.

there were similar "schools" in places like Ireland run by similar organizations. Often for unmarried mothers. They've found all kinds of mass graves there.

www.theguardian.com...

Institutions from that time period have terrible reputations.

Correct. And in some places on Earth, this is allegedly still happening.

Where or where could that be...

a reply to: LSU2018

Because they were terrified and brainwashed. Not just the children, but their parents too.

Why does it take abuse victims so long to escape their abusers? Why do people get trapped in cults? Why do families protect abusers by keeping secrets instead of turning them in?

Same logic at work.


ETA: You might as well say the nuns who did most of the abuse were likely brainwashed too. That's no excuse for abusing children, but it's worth noting that a lot of the same tactics that would have been used to punish the children were also used to keep nuns in line in those times. Beatings, starvation, sexual abuse, guilt, shame, isolation. Everything Jesus taught us about.

originally posted by: vonclod

originally posted by: LSU2018

originally posted by: vonclod

originally posted by: AaarghZombies

originally posted by: vonclod

originally posted by: AaarghZombies
a reply to: dug88

Do we know how old these bodies are, or over how long a period they were buried?

Are we talking a couple of children dying each year over 200 years, or a couple of children a week over a much shorter period of time?

Do we know the causes of death?

Murder, malnutrition, or smallpox outbreak?

It will take time for all that, and at this site, it happened, over a 70 year period. All in unmarked graves..not shady at all. The bodies are still in the ground..I believe, so, we are talking a huge forensic investigation to come. I imagine they will be looking at other sites now.

Unmarked graves is pretty much the norm for that kind of institution . It happens even if they are well run and above board. They used to be called pauper's graves, and you find them all over the place from prisons to public cemeteries. It's more a symbol of poverty than abuse. They may have had simple wooden grave markers originally that simply rotted away. Without a family to pay for a headstone or the upkeep of a grave this was the best that a lot of poor could expect.

These days people like this are often cremated, and they don't even get an unmarked grave. Old man in a housing project dies, no family, no friends, the state burns the body and scatters the ashes with maybe a minimal ceremony.

215 people over a 70 year period, that's around 3 deaths a year.

I don't want to sound heartless, but that's not particularly bad. These were poor children living in close quarters. Suicide and communicable diseases, plus it probably wasn't very well heated in the winter so add influenza and pneumonia to that, and you're safely within the confines of the expected death rate for simply being poor.

You'd get a worse death rate in a modern inner city high school simply from gang crime and suicides. The big difference is that the parent would be given the bodies.

You understand that children were taken from their parents right? these were not orphans. The church considered them savages, and treated them accordingly. Nope, this is not acceptable, never was, not going to be now.

ETA I should also point out the govts involvement as well.

I was about to ask how the parents didn't know about their kids and what kind of excuses they heard. The only one that would have flown, really, would have been that the child ran away during recess or something. So if the kids were taken from their parents, where did they stay? At the school?

Yes, at the school's, more like reformatory/prison for children. When children did escape/run away, they were often recaptured.

Man, that's horrible. I couldn't imagine going through life wondering if my child was ok or not. I'm sure the coercion involved something along the lines of "If you try to come get your child(ren), they/you all will be killed. I can't think of many other reasons the parents didn't go destroy those schools.

originally posted by: SleeperHasAwakened

originally posted by: AaarghZombies
a reply to: dug88

Just to put this into context.

This isn't just something that happened to indigenous people.

there were similar "schools" in places like Ireland run by similar organizations. Often for unmarried mothers. They've found all kinds of mass graves there.

www.theguardian.com...

Institutions from that time period have terrible reputations.

Correct. And in some places on Earth, this is allegedly still happening.

Where or where could that be...

Indeed, the Uyghur's come to mind.

originally posted by: LSU2018

originally posted by: vonclod

originally posted by: LSU2018

originally posted by: vonclod

originally posted by: AaarghZombies

originally posted by: vonclod

originally posted by: AaarghZombies
a reply to: dug88

Do we know how old these bodies are, or over how long a period they were buried?

Are we talking a couple of children dying each year over 200 years, or a couple of children a week over a much shorter period of time?

Do we know the causes of death?

Murder, malnutrition, or smallpox outbreak?

It will take time for all that, and at this site, it happened, over a 70 year period. All in unmarked graves..not shady at all. The bodies are still in the ground..I believe, so, we are talking a huge forensic investigation to come. I imagine they will be looking at other sites now.

Unmarked graves is pretty much the norm for that kind of institution . It happens even if they are well run and above board. They used to be called pauper's graves, and you find them all over the place from prisons to public cemeteries. It's more a symbol of poverty than abuse. They may have had simple wooden grave markers originally that simply rotted away. Without a family to pay for a headstone or the upkeep of a grave this was the best that a lot of poor could expect.

These days people like this are often cremated, and they don't even get an unmarked grave. Old man in a housing project dies, no family, no friends, the state burns the body and scatters the ashes with maybe a minimal ceremony.

215 people over a 70 year period, that's around 3 deaths a year.

I don't want to sound heartless, but that's not particularly bad. These were poor children living in close quarters. Suicide and communicable diseases, plus it probably wasn't very well heated in the winter so add influenza and pneumonia to that, and you're safely within the confines of the expected death rate for simply being poor.

You'd get a worse death rate in a modern inner city high school simply from gang crime and suicides. The big difference is that the parent would be given the bodies.

You understand that children were taken from their parents right? these were not orphans. The church considered them savages, and treated them accordingly. Nope, this is not acceptable, never was, not going to be now.

ETA I should also point out the govts involvement as well.

I was about to ask how the parents didn't know about their kids and what kind of excuses they heard. The only one that would have flown, really, would have been that the child ran away during recess or something. So if the kids were taken from their parents, where did they stay? At the school?

Yes, at the school's, more like reformatory/prison for children. When children did escape/run away, they were often recaptured.

Man, that's horrible. I couldn't imagine going through life wondering if my child was ok or not. I'm sure the coercion involved something along the lines of "If you try to come get your child(ren), they/you all will be killed. I can't think of many other reasons the parents didn't go destroy those schools.

I think they probably felt powerless, as many of us do even today. They had no rights..or not the same rights, they were isolated, on various reserves, communication would of been via mail..in terms of communicating with other reserves.

They probably would of been killed.

originally posted by: vonclod

originally posted by: SleeperHasAwakened

originally posted by: AaarghZombies
a reply to: dug88

Just to put this into context.

This isn't just something that happened to indigenous people.

there were similar "schools" in places like Ireland run by similar organizations. Often for unmarried mothers. They've found all kinds of mass graves there.

www.theguardian.com...

Institutions from that time period have terrible reputations.

Correct. And in some places on Earth, this is allegedly still happening.

Where or where could that be...

Indeed, the Uyghur's come to mind.

Precisely, you and I are on the same mental wave link on that one.

originally posted by: LSU2018

originally posted by: Atsbhct

originally posted by: AaarghZombies

originally posted by: vonclod

originally posted by: AaarghZombies
a reply to: dug88

Do we know how old these bodies are, or over how long a period they were buried?

Are we talking a couple of children dying each year over 200 years, or a couple of children a week over a much shorter period of time?

Do we know the causes of death?

Murder, malnutrition, or smallpox outbreak?

It will take time for all that, and at this site, it happened, over a 70 year period. All in unmarked graves..not shady at all. The bodies are still in the ground..I believe, so, we are talking a huge forensic investigation to come. I imagine they will be looking at other sites now.

Unmarked graves is pretty much the norm for that kind of institution . It happens even if they are well run and above board. They used to be called pauper's graves, and you find them all over the place from prisons to public cemeteries. It's more a symbol of poverty than abuse. They may have had simple wooden grave markers originally that simply rotted away. Without a family to pay for a headstone or the upkeep of a grave this was the best that a lot of poor could expect.

These days people like this are often cremated, and they don't even get an unmarked grave. Old man in a housing project dies, no family, no friends, the state burns the body and scatters the ashes with maybe a minimal ceremony.

215 people over a 70 year period, that's around 3 deaths a year.

I don't want to sound heartless, but that's not particularly bad. These were poor children living in close quarters. Suicide and communicable diseases, plus it probably wasn't very well heated in the winter so add influenza and pneumonia to that, and you're safely within the confines of the expected death rate for simply being poor.

You'd get a worse death rate in a modern inner city high school simply from gang crime and suicides. The big difference is that the parent would be given the bodies.

These were children who were stolen or coerced from their families; beaten, maimed, starved, killed if they didn't conform.

These weren't "poor" children. They were indigenous children caught up in the government and catholics churches efforts to cleanse Canada of native beliefs.

My cousin went to one of the very last ones as a child. He told me a story of a girl who was almost 16, she used some Mikmaq words while a nun was listening. The nun choked her until the girl passed out. She just left her there outside. The girl woke up and ran home and hid on the reservation until she was too old to be sent back.

And things like that happened all the time. I have no doubt that the Church officials were more involved in the deaths of these children than just digging "paupers graves".

You said the children were stolen or coerced from their families. Then your cousin knows of a child who was choked out and left on the ground, but then she was able to run home and stay there until she was too old to go back to school. If she was able to run home, why didn't others band together and run away? I'm directing that question at you, I'm just curious as to why they didn't run home. I would have ran away at the first chance and tried to get as many small kids as I could to safety.

Up until fairly recent times there was an Indian Agent that lived on Reserve. People had to sign in and out of the Reserve and the Agents kept a log.

One or two runaways may get away with hiding out but in quantity they would be rounded up by the RCMP or Government services and returned to the school for a good whupin or worse.

originally posted by: vonclod

originally posted by: NorthOfStuff

originally posted by: vonclod

originally posted by: AaarghZombies

originally posted by: vonclod

originally posted by: AaarghZombies
a reply to: dug88

Do we know how old these bodies are, or over how long a period they were buried?

Are we talking a couple of children dying each year over 200 years, or a couple of children a week over a much shorter period of time?

Do we know the causes of death?

Murder, malnutrition, or smallpox outbreak?

It will take time for all that, and at this site, it happened, over a 70 year period. All in unmarked graves..not shady at all. The bodies are still in the ground..I believe, so, we are talking a huge forensic investigation to come. I imagine they will be looking at other sites now.

Unmarked graves is pretty much the norm for that kind of institution . It happens even if they are well run and above board. They used to be called pauper's graves, and you find them all over the place from prisons to public cemeteries. It's more a symbol of poverty than abuse. They may have had simple wooden grave markers originally that simply rotted away. Without a family to pay for a headstone or the upkeep of a grave this was the best that a lot of poor could expect.

These days people like this are often cremated, and they don't even get an unmarked grave. Old man in a housing project dies, no family, no friends, the state burns the body and scatters the ashes with maybe a minimal ceremony.

215 people over a 70 year period, that's around 3 deaths a year.

I don't want to sound heartless, but that's not particularly bad. These were poor children living in close quarters. Suicide and communicable diseases, plus it probably wasn't very well heated in the winter so add influenza and pneumonia to that, and you're safely within the confines of the expected death rate for simply being poor.

You'd get a worse death rate in a modern inner city high school simply from gang crime and suicides. The big difference is that the parent would be given the bodies.

You understand that children were taken from their parents right? these were not orphans. The church considered them savages, and treated them accordingly. Nope, this is not acceptable, never was, not going to be now.

From what I understand so far it was a mass grave. Not the sort of thing you keep digging up and adding more bodies to over a 70 year period.

A lot of the guys I work with went to these schools and it has damaged them for life. Forbidden to speak their language, abused, and distorted by an evil system.

I'm not sure about the mass grave, but otherwise absolutely agree, my stepfather of 20 years was put in one, also my former mother in law. My stepdad, is in his 70s, was successful in life, did well, but harbours some deep pain and resentment..he will go to his grave carrying it.

Here’s some info on the mass grave.


“While the timeframe for the deaths is unknown, a mass grave is typically created within a very short period of time. Either that or the school treated the grave as a landfill. Both scenerios are horrific.”

www.thestar.com...

Most of the news sites are calling it that now.

Disturbing.

a reply to: AaarghZombies

YOU have no idea of what happened. You are ignorant (look up what that means). It means uneducated. Educate yourself about the horrors and evil that happened. Either educate yourself or get off this thread.

a reply to: dug88

But there is no truth to the article’s claim. The British royal family often makes headlines. If the queen had been found guilty of such a crime, it would have been picked up by major news outlets, yet none have reported on it, and Buckingham Palace has not issued a press release.

When attending a recent 'Stand in the Park' meeting, did talk to one aboriginal who said 300 aboriginal children went missing the last time the Queen visited Australia. With what has come out around Prince Andrew, the Monarchy is above the law. For anyone to expect Buckingham palace to issue a press release on this don't know how this world works.

these mass graves happened in the US also at Indian boarding schools.

www.aljazeera.com...
www.hcn.org...
www.inquirer.com...

Found a bunch at another school, in Sask. And I'm sure more yet to be found.

a reply to: Atsbhct

In what way is this diminished? Acknowledging that the same sorts of things happened in many places doesn't diminish this in any way.

Because this did happen, most every where. Canada isn't unique, unfortunately. Africa. Asia. The Americas. Europe.

a reply to: vonclod
Whoa..looks like they found up to 750 bodies in unmarked graves at Marieval Indian Residential School, in Sask. Can you only imagine how much worse it might be if not run by the church..who we are told really love children!

The article say the RC church at some point removed whatever headstones were there..why?..wtf!


www.ctvnews.ca...

a reply to: vonclod

I have a bad feeling they this may just be the beginning.

There is now a hotline that former pupils (inmates) can call with any tips they may have.

Rocky times ahead methinks.