Why Not the Moon?

originally posted by: mzinga
a reply to: IAMTAT

Umm gravity is a function of mass, not spin..

Umm...okay.

originally posted by: beyondknowledge
a reply to: TheKestrel04
Actually if you had a tractor beam, rotation would be a great weapon. Spin an enemy ship by aiming the tractor beam to one edge of that ship instead of the center of mass and they can't aim their weapons at you. Keep increasing the spin and they will be unable to do anything inside the ship to operate it. Apply the spin acceleration very quickly and you turn the occupants into soup.

Horrifyingly effective

originally posted by: IAMTAT
a reply to: TheKestrel04

Be cool to try and give the moon some rotation for gravity...but we'd probably end up accidently launching it into the earth.

You are in the right area just the other way around as I have just realised. I mean spin and gravity might affect each other in more bizarre ways, I heard lots of things. For me time is a big factor as no time no gravity.

originally posted by: beyondknowledge
The main problem is the properties of the dust. Mars dust has been blown around by the atmosphere and this has worn off the sharp points of the particles. Moon dust is as sharp as the day it was blasted from the impacts that made craters. This sharp dust eats through the fabric of the space suits. The Apollo suits outer layer was Teflon coated nylon and the moon dust deteriorated them badly at the microscopic level. This also applies to anything mechanical that moves.

Think tiny stone arrow heads and knife points embedding in the fabric and cutting with every movement.

Unless you have an endless supply of space suits, you can only stay on the Moon for a short time.

I love learning new things, and I am admittedly sometimes a know-it-all. (We all have issues)

I did not know or consider this at all. That makes a ton of sense actually. The particles would be much more coarse and dangerous because of 0 erosion (outside of gravitational.. uhh.. "compaction"?)

I wonder why I've never seen this brought up or talked about.

I have always thought we could create a sealed, underground base on the moon with a a port lock or two for entry and exit. Slap a nuclear reactor in and BAM! Power galore. At least underground you would be protected from micro particles that would RIP through things topside.

a reply to: IAMTAT

This isn't sci-fi/Hollywood science here.. If the earth would start spinning faster, the centrifugal force actually works to combat gravity, not add to it. Works great in a movie.. But not in a science, mass and math world.

www.popsci.com...#:~:text=Losing%20weight&text=But%20if%20Earth%20were%20to,says%20NASA%20astronomer%20Sten%20Odenwald.&text=T hat's%20because%20of%20the%20extra,weight%20would%20drop%20even%20further.

originally posted by: Lucidparadox
I do agree that it's weird we haVent created a base on the moon

i think we might have. secretly of course.

I always like it when I hear them say they will terraform Mars...hahaha! Are they using the global warming hacks to tell them how long it will take and how to do it?

originally posted by: Lucidparadox

originally posted by: beyondknowledge
The main problem is the properties of the dust. Mars dust has been blown around by the atmosphere and this has worn off the sharp points of the particles. Moon dust is as sharp as the day it was blasted from the impacts that made craters. This sharp dust eats through the fabric of the space suits. The Apollo suits outer layer was Teflon coated nylon and the moon dust deteriorated them badly at the microscopic level. This also applies to anything mechanical that moves.

Think tiny stone arrow heads and knife points embedding in the fabric and cutting with every movement.

Unless you have an endless supply of space suits, you can only stay on the Moon for a short time.

I love learning new things, and I am admittedly sometimes a know-it-all. (We all have issues)

I did not know or consider this at all. That makes a ton of sense actually. The particles would be much more coarse and dangerous because of 0 erosion (outside of gravitational.. uhh.. "compaction"?)

I wonder why I've never seen this brought up or talked about.

Well that is a Heavy counter point. The shear maintenance of typical space gear would outstrip practical long term stay.

Like 2012v7 said I was also thinking an underground base is the next practical approach. It would be nice to send a large platform which lands fully intact and then you start drilling from the surface in to avoid the dust. Now if they had a super hot melting laser or something like that the boring would be easier as the material would vitrify and fuse together...

originally posted by: Middleoftheroad
I always like it when I hear them say they will terraform Mars...hahaha! Are they using the global warming hacks to tell them how long it will take and how to do it?

I doubt any terraforming in any great capacity can be done by us atm given how we don't seem to quite have the reigns on our own existing terraform.

I've read some pretty good articles that outline exactly why the Moon is a very difficult place to live. Number one is the dust -- extremely, microscopically fine dust that through impacts have been shaped into tiny glass needles. Every single machine and object put up there would have to be constantly cleaned of dust to keep it from gumming everything up, and even then enough would find its way into the air of any outpost that people would have to breathe it. Several of the lunar astronauts ended up with allergies from it. Fortunately, they were only there for a few days. Smells like burned gunpowder, apparently.

Imagine living and working in an ashtray filled with asbestos.

And then there's the insane amounts of deadly radiation.

Yeah, a real vacation spot.

originally posted by: Blue Shift Imagine living and working in an ashtray filled with asbestos.

And then there's the insane amounts of deadly radiation.

Yeah, a real vacation spot.

would be a difficult sales pitch for the brochure, no doubt.

originally posted by: TheKestrel04

originally posted by: Middleoftheroad
I always like it when I hear them say they will terraform Mars...hahaha! Are they using the global warming hacks to tell them how long it will take and how to do it?

I doubt any terraforming in any great capacity can be done by us atm given how we don't seem to quite have the reigns on our own existing terraform.

Yeah. Living in Antarctica or in the ocean is 10,000 times easier than getting to and living on Mars, and only a few very dedicated scientists are doing it. Sure, there will be a few daredevils and others hungry for attention who will probably make it to Mars and die (or die before they get there). But it's unlikely that within the next several centuries at least there will be any significant population of humans on Mars.

originally posted by: Blue Shift

originally posted by: TheKestrel04

originally posted by: Middleoftheroad
I always like it when I hear them say they will terraform Mars...hahaha! Are they using the global warming hacks to tell them how long it will take and how to do it?

I doubt any terraforming in any great capacity can be done by us atm given how we don't seem to quite have the reigns on our own existing terraform.

Yeah. Living in Antarctica or in the ocean is 10,000 times easier than getting to and living on Mars, and only a few very dedicated scientists are doing it. Sure, there will be a few daredevils and others hungry for attention who will probably make it to Mars and die (or die before they get there). But it's unlikely that within the next several centuries at least there will be any significant population of humans on Mars.

From my understanding we have solved the biggest problems already.

Radiation? --> Water shielding on the spacecraft, and domes on mars.

Water?--> Theres water on Mars in the ice, bring some along, melt some, away, and send multiple supply drops.

Food?--> Greenhouses, regular scheduled supply drops, insects.

Oxygen?--> Bring some along, ship some in regular supply drops, recycled air, and create oxygen from the Mars ice.

Shelter?--> Build domes and/or use one of the cave systems and build in there.

a reply to: Middleoftheroad

Yeah ... terraforming Mars. I doubt Mars has enough gravity to terraform very effectively. It couldn't hold onto its originally-thicker atmosphere; so, how is it going to hold onto any new atmosphere for very long either -- especially without a strong enough magnetic field to protect vs solar wind?

originally posted by: DrumsRfun
a reply to: TheKestrel04

We humans are a greedy moronic species.
We can't even figure out this planet, but we ignore that part of the equation and talk about screwing up other planets.
I'd prefer we concentrate and focus on our own planet before screwing all the other ones up.

Lets create a civilized earth first, before venturing out into space like the idiots we have proven to be.
Nukes, genocide, regime changes, corruption, slavery, human trafficking etc etc etc

I get this point but frustratingly so. As in the technology we develop going to these places will be the technology we use to save this place!
Every dollar put into anything space related we will get back in future tech that will benefit all of humanity. So the idea of just shelving all of it to "fix" our planet first is just laughably ridiculous to me. I understand the flawed logic however.

originally posted by: Blue Shift
I've read some pretty good articles that outline exactly why the Moon is a very difficult place to live. Number one is the dust -- extremely, microscopically fine dust that through impacts have been shaped into tiny glass needles. Every single machine and object put up there would have to be constantly cleaned of dust to keep it from gumming everything up, and even then enough would find its way into the air of any outpost that people would have to breathe it. Several of the lunar astronauts ended up with allergies from it. Fortunately, they were only there for a few days. Smells like burned gunpowder, apparently.

Imagine living and working in an ashtray filled with asbestos.

And then there's the insane amounts of deadly radiation.

Yeah, a real vacation spot.

IF we can handle that we can handle most things that will follow

originally posted by: RoScoLaz5

originally posted by: Blue Shift Imagine living and working in an ashtray filled with asbestos.

And then there's the insane amounts of deadly radiation.

Yeah, a real vacation spot.

would be a difficult sales pitch for the brochure, no doubt.

A Travel Vlogger's goldmine, awaiting the Youtube Livestream

As a matter of fact space tourism would get more interest, the base would be expansive but completely encapsulated. So for moon walks instead you walk through like a glass/transparent corridor along the surface rather than in a spacesuit. Surface walks would basically be forbidden unless for emergency or maintenance reasons. Being mainly completely underground would pretty much solve all of that while retaining the " Natural Beauty " of the environment.

So like living on the Int. Space Station but with actual gravity....


The more I rationalize this the more obvious it becomes there is probably a secret moon base.

With the infinite military budget it makes Perfect sense. It is a Remote highly inaccessible location for most but few.

a reply to: DrumsRfun

I'd prefer we concentrate and focus on our own planet before screwing all the other ones up.

To be fair, the other planets are pretty much already dead wastelands, there's not much we can do to make them worse. I agree with the OP, it would make a lot of sense to establish bases on the Moon before attempting it on Mars. It would provide a lot of learning experiences and allow us to refine our plans for Mars.

originally posted by: Fowlerstoad
a reply to: Middleoftheroad

Yeah ... terraforming Mars. I doubt Mars has enough gravity to terraform very effectively. It couldn't hold onto its originally-thicker atmosphere; so, how is it going to hold onto any new atmosphere for very long either -- especially without a strong enough magnetic field to protect vs solar wind?

The lack of a magnetic field is the real deal breaker WRT to terraforming. Without any protection provided by a magnetic field, those on the surface of Mars are vulnerable to solar radiation and cosmic rays.