Trying this again. What do you guys think about this?

I posted on this not too long ago and got in trouble. Apparently some folks in the moderation department thought I was someone else. I guess theres been a lot of trouble here lately concerning the subject of homosexuality but there are alot of interesting folks here on ATS and I would like everyone's view on this. I especiallly would like to know what people think about what scripture would apply to this:

www.healthyplace.com...

I am in no way bashing gays. (Would be a little odd given the fact that I am gay)
Just exploring different angles...

I think Matthew 19:12 applies. I will see if I can find more.


"For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it."


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I am trying to understand the point of discussing hermaphrodites in a religious forum. Personally I think a decision should have been made while still an infant. Moderan surgary and hormone treatments would have made it all but unnoticeable.

It is similar to deciding on wether to circumcise or not. It is normally done at an early age to aboid severe emotional or physical trauma

The Genesis account of our creation can be interpreted as two separate stages, with an asexual creation first, followed by the man and woman. So, to me, this is an excellent topic for discussion in a religious forum. I am also very glad that the parents did not impose their own choice of gender onto their child. Whether the reasons for that were noble or not, I think that it is very loving to leave any choice to undergo such a procedure up to the patient. I feel that although our children are of us, they are not our possessions. We created them, and they are owned by no one but themselves. So for me, the intersexual individual is a marvel of nature. , a wonder, a blessing to all.
There is no need to force someone to choose one or the other gender, in this case, imho. In fact, I would support a policy of extreme caution before approving such a procedure. It is my view that there is nothing wrong with being born like that, and that there is something wrong with the antagonism and negative non-acceptance that they face. that is the area I feel needs fixing, bad attitudes, instead of making unique people more ordinary just becuz they are different, and not well-understood. That is not a reason. Love all, BG13

That's an interesting reply Jehosephat but I'm going to have to side with BlackGuardXIII on this one. Right now I'm just trying to answer some questions I have for myself and I'm hoping by seeing some different angles and views it will help me do that. Right now I'm exploring the possible and likely relationship between hermaphrodites like the one linked above and homosexuals/lesbians. I'm not really here to debate anything or make anyone feel that I'm going to be offended. Oppions and thoughts on this from other folks are at the moment very valuable to me, so throw them at me if you will.

[edit on 23-3-2005 by TxSecret]

[edit on 23-3-2005 by TxSecret]

Right now I'm exploring the possible and likely relationship between hermaphrodites like the one linked above and homosexuals/lesbians

I'd like to know what the two have in common. How do you possibly link hermaphrodites with homosexuals? What does being born with the sex organs of both a man and a woman have to do with being gay? Would you say that a hermaphrodite is automatically gay because they have both sexes and therefore they are gay whichever sex they choose to be attracted to? I'm really quite confused as to the point of this thread and honestly find it quite offensive.....and that's probably why it was closed the last time you posted it....it's ridiculous.

Hermaphroditism (word??) is a birth defect. Is homosexuality a birth defect in your mind?

personaly i would have to say that a hermaphidite is the one human who can not be gay. the way i have read it in the bible is man lieing with man, woman lieing with woman. if a man is with a hermaphridide i would think that it would be the female half that he lies with.same with the oposit. unless of course an operation to remove one half of the sexes is done.

i would also agree with parrents not makeing a decision about which sex their off spring will be. i have read in the past this decision ofter causes severe trama to the child as for some unknown reason they feel like the part that was removed a good portion of the time. then they end up finding out what was done causeing irreversible harm in the relationship with the parrents. also the afected person ends up mourning what was lost makeing them unstable and can lead to multiple personalities. as for nameing such a child i would go for a gender neutral name. many names have actualy switched genders in the past carol for example was originaly a male name.

i will also state that i feel that homosexuality is wrong and as such we should do our best to counsol those so aflicted. this of course does not mean i support or codone "gay bashing". however i do condem my government for alowing gay marrage. it is a law that should be recended at the earlyest opertunity.

my apologies if i offend someone by this but it is clearly stated in the bible to be wrong. so wrong in fact that two cities were totaly destroyed at least partialy because of homosexual activity.

i will also state that i feel that homosexuality is wrong and as such we should do our best to counsol those so aflicted. this of course does not mean i support or codone "gay bashing". however i do condem my government for alowing gay marrage. it is a law that should be recended at the earlyest opertunity

Homosexuality is now an affliction? What couseling would you suggest? Why are you against gay marriage? If two people love each other, why shouldn't they be able to be married in a ceremony like a hetero couple? What do their life choices have to do with you or your life and who are you to pass judgement on them? Are you perfect? Are you God?? Should we look in you closet and share with the world the aspects of your life that the "masses" would find questionable??

My God loves EVERYONE!!

Originally posted by Zabilgy

i will also state that i feel that homosexuality is wrong and as such we should do our best to counsol those so aflicted. this of course does not mean i support or codone "gay bashing". however i do condem my government for alowing gay marrage. it is a law that should be recended at the earlyest opertunity

Homosexuality is now an affliction? What couseling would you suggest? Why are you against gay marriage? If two people love each other, why shouldn't they be able to be married in a ceremony like a hetero couple? What do their life choices have to do with you or your life and who are you to pass judgement on them? Are you perfect? Are you God?? Should we look in you closet and share with the world the aspects of your life that the "masses" would find questionable??

My God loves EVERYONE!!

i never implyed that by being gay god did not love you. god loves all of us even the worst of us. god even loved hitler and would take him back if he only confessed and asked for forgiveness.

marrage is the contract between man and woman to live, work and share life together, for procreation, and to weather all trials and pitfalls together. there is not even a requirement for love other than the love we should feel for everyone. it is esentualy a religious act that untill modern times was only done through a religious leader. to those of the cathlic faith it is considered to be a nesisary sacrament.

the counsoling would basicly come down to the expaining that to act out homosexual passions is a sin against god, and goes against nature. the choice would ultimately be up to the individual involved. keep in mind one may always repent and be forgiven. the fact that sex produces such wondefull sensations is to ensure that civilization can continue for without new life it would die out.

as for "looking into my closet" that is precisly where any sexual activity should be kept. no one needs to know what goes on in the "bedroom", that is between those involved. it is not something that you should brag about.

as for being aflicted i do not pretend to know what causes people to go so far against god, and against nature itself. but why should you parrade such sinfullness so joyously.

as for love i love my sister that does not mean i shoud mary her, indeed that would be a great sin also. i love my friends this does not mean i should pursue sexual relations with them. i try to follow the command to love all, this does not mean i should have sex indiscriminatly. this does not mean i should try to marry every female.

i have never claimed to be god or that i am perfect. far from it. i do not pass judgement that is up to god , remember you will be called to accout for your life by god in the end. i can only remind someone they are liveing in sin, and should strive to be better. as we all should strive to be better.

as for "looking into my closet" that is precisly where any sexual activity should be kept. no one needs to know what goes on in the "bedroom", that is between those involved. it is not something that you should brag about.

A. I'm not gay...and why would I have to be to have the viewpoints I have? I'm not a homophobe or a gay-hater.
B. You feel it's no ones business what goes on in YOUR bedroom but you feel it is YOUR business what goes on in homosexuals bedrooms...why the double standard?

as for being aflicted i do not pretend to know what causes people to go so far against god, and against nature itself. but why should you parrade such sinfullness so joyously.

Being homosexual goes against God?? How?? I understand it goes against nature for the same sexes to have sex, but does sex always have to lead to procreation? Can't men/women have sex just for the pleasure of it? My God allows this....obviously yours does not. And who is parading anything. I'm straight and don't parade that around....are you saying homosexuals parade their gayness around? Their may be some that are "flaming", but most you would have no idea are gay. Perhaps YOU are even in the closet....maybe that's why you so intensely protest it, to hide your true self from yourself??.....it happens quite often!!

i do not pass judgement that is up to god

Better re-read your initial post....you are passing judgement. And my God isn't going to have me account for my life in the end. My God understands I am human and imperfect.....and knows I will strive to do better in the next life!!

i can only remind someone they are liveing in sin, and should strive to be better. as we all should strive to be better.

This is called PASSING JUDGEMENT!!

Originally posted by Zabilgy

as for "looking into my closet" that is precisly where any sexual activity should be kept. no one needs to know what goes on in the "bedroom", that is between those involved. it is not something that you should brag about.

A. I'm not gay...and why would I have to be to have the viewpoints I have? I'm not a homophobe or a gay-hater.
B. You feel it's no ones business what goes on in YOUR bedroom but you feel it is YOUR business what goes on in homosexuals bedrooms...why the double standard?

as for being aflicted i do not pretend to know what causes people to go so far against god, and against nature itself. but why should you parrade such sinfullness so joyously.

Being homosexual goes against God?? How?? I understand it goes against nature for the same sexes to have sex, but does sex always have to lead to procreation? Can't men/women have sex just for the pleasure of it? My God allows this....obviously yours does not. And who is parading anything. I'm straight and don't parade that around....are you saying homosexuals parade their gayness around? Their may be some that are "flaming", but most you would have no idea are gay. Perhaps YOU are even in the closet....maybe that's why you so intensely protest it, to hide your true self from yourself??.....it happens quite often!!

i do not pass judgement that is up to god

Better re-read your initial post....you are passing judgement. And my God isn't going to have me account for my life in the end. My God understands I am human and imperfect.....and knows I will strive to do better in the next life!!

i can only remind someone they are liveing in sin, and should strive to be better. as we all should strive to be better.

This is called PASSING JUDGEMENT!!

i said all sex should be kept in the bed room. not just mine. as for paradeing arround what is the gay day PARADE. many times i have heard people triumfantly cry " i am gay". normaly you do not hear that from a straight person. i do not care what goes on within another's bedroom that is between those involved and God. it is in their own hands wheather or not to participate in such a detestible sin or not. i just wish that they would keep it to themselves. when or if they decide to stop sinning they can admit to their sin and ask God's forgiveness.

interesting thougt that i may be in the closet myself. well first off i'm not. secondly even if i was as long as i did not participate in the sinfull practice of it and sought to avoid such temtation,i would not be sinning. i would also pray to God to remove such evil thoughts from saten from me.

leviticus 18:22
"do not practice homosexuality; it is a detestible sin."
1 corinthians 6:9-10
don't you know that those who do wrong will have no share in the kingdom of God? don't fool yourselves. those who indulge in sexual sin, who are idol worshipers,adulterers, male prostitutes, homosexuals, theives greedy people drunkards, abusers, and swindlers-none of these will have a share in the kingdom of God.
1 corinthians 6:18
run away from sexual sin! no other sin so clearly affects the body as this one does. for sexual immortality is a sin against your own body

i do not see haveing sex for pleasure as being bad as long as it is between man and wife. in fact God intended us to get pleasure from it. otherwise we would not get pleasure from it.

it is not passing judgement to try to remind somone that something is a sin. to judge them i would have to condem them for it.as for my first post i am stateing my opinion in the matter not condemming someone for it. that would be up to God. as for doing better in the next life according to the bible you only have this life. the next life will be one of two things, go to heaven where there is no sin, or go to hell and face eternal damnation.

your God? from the sounds of it you do not worship the true God. there is only one true God all others are false gods.

I see leviticus quoted, so you must adhere to all the restrictions therein.

No shellfish, slavery is okay, menstruation requires quarantine, etc.

what a load of b.s.

God and gay people can make their own peace, you and I have zip to say.
If a gay couple is in any way discriminated against regarding marital benefits or rights, then the policy must go. Hate is no basis for law.

it is in their own hands wheather or not to participate in such a detestible sin or not. i just wish that they would keep it to themselves. when or if they decide to stop sinning they can admit to their sin and ask God's forgiveness

Again Drogo...this is YOU passing judgement. Though you say you do not pass judgement on people. Quoting from the Bible does absolutely nothing for me. This book was created by mortal men for their own gain. It wasn't written by God or by Jesus...and there are important books that have been conveniently left out. Most of the new testament was written by mortal men to control the masses and pass their mortal thoughts and beliefs on those masses. The Bible is an interesting text but is mostly fiction.......

I have had several gay friends over the last 20 years and none of them used to jump around screaming "Woo Hoo I'm a fag!!"....they were normal people that have different sexual interests.

it is not passing judgement to try to remind somone that something is a sin

Why is it your job to remind anyone that something is a sin? Are you God? Are you a Saint?...are you a perfect individual?? Since you feel the need to tell all the homosexuals they are sinning, why don't you share your sins with us, so we can pass our judgements on you!! Sounds fair to me!!