Username Weise here at ATS was Minn. Shooter Killer

I have been a long time learker on this site, but this is my first post.

I heard about this on the news in the Uk, i just sorta brushed it off as another crazy American kid when it was on tv, but after reading every single post in this thread and looking around the net, i can say that i am not only touched and saddend by this story but also very very confused.

I cannot simply undertsand why Weise choose that specific time to do it. From reading his posts, yeah he seems unstable, lonely, scared, but he doesnt really show any signs of violence, other than to himself.

There some excellent posts in this last page alone, there are also some crazy theories (mind control? Although i am starting to beleive anything on this... my mind is open). The thing i am really having trouble with understanding is why he took out his grandfather. From what i have read he loved his grandad, and his gramps seemed to be the only person who he really trusted. Loads of kids forgive him, saying that he had a heart of gold, would help anyone etc etc, but yet on the flip side i hear the press saying he was a loner, nazi sympathiser who may or may not have gone round in some sort of remote trench coat-esk gang.

Its been a while but there still doesnt seem to be that much info, what about this other kid who supposedly helped him? Did he plan it for ages? I dont know a lot about mental health issues, but the only way i can put this together is as follows...

He seems to be a little scitzo, in his posts here he seem to just be a lonely, troubled kid who was looking for a little help. On other sites (e.g his animation) he seems to be a complete gun toating, death to the world pyscho. I am asking anyone who knows this... is it possible to be skitzo and almost lead your life as too different people, e.g half the time i think i am a scientist, other half i think i am a trained mecenary with contracted targets? I'm sorta getting the impression this was how he was, and on that morning the skitzo side just sorta took over... kinda like Devil Jin in Tekken 5?

I dunno, this is more of a rant than anything. It just seems to me he was let down, they knew he had issues, they knew he was suicidal, how could someone stop this happening? Did they not sit him down properly and get a pyschologist to talk with him... a friend is all he needed? Thats makes me angry, and i am also wondering if a lot of this is infact due to the prozac.

Sorry for a pretty useless rant, this just all sort of baffles me whilst pulling on my heart strings a bit, an effective combo to try and find out the truth!

Thanx for reading.

Wyredone,

I stand by my statement. The kid didn't produce the animation nor write the short story. It may have been possible, but was it probable? No.

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The cop who leaked the info that Weise was shot twice was disciplined for that unauthorized leak. I wonder when they were planning on telling us that little fact, if ever. Makes you wonder what else they are hiding. Like maybe Weise was shot from the rear, when the perps noticed their designated patsy was heading for the exit doors at high speed when the shots started ringing out. And then he allegedly retreated to the classroom? What, by crawling into the room? And what were the cops doing at the time? Watching him crawl away? Something doesn't smell right, as usual.

This quote is interesting:

"Authorities said it took just two minutes for police to respond after the 911 calls, but (J-ustin)Jourdain said he and other students waited 25 minutes before they felt safe enough to finally leave their classroom."
news.minnesota.publicradio.org 3-22-05

Sounds to me like the kids left on their own volition. No cops told them to exit, nor did any cops tell them to remain where they were. Why? Because the cops had left the school, probably to concentrate on setting up a 'perimeter'. Its Columbine all over again. Only this time, the FBLie has learned their lesson. This time they are going to pick up the other minions involved, but keep a tight lid on what these kids have to say that implicates the adults who are behind it.

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Excerps from National Enquirer cover story on Red Lake(4-11-05), based on an interview with fellow student Willy May:


"Just days before ...Jeff Weise shot up Red Lake High School.... officials suspended (him) for threatening to kill students."

[Comment: He threatened to kill students? This is the first I've heard of this.]


"Weise had been sent home after a threatening letter he wrote was found in a school bathroom. A short time later, he shot his grandfather...."

[Comment: Is May saying Weise had been on the school grounds that morning and had been asked to leave?]



"Seething with rage fueled by.... gay taunts from classmates, Weise moved up his planned massacre from its rumored date, April 20..."

[Comment: Rumors said he was planning it on 4-20? Sounds like lots of people did know something about an impending attack.]


"In fact, Weise had been twice accused of threatening to bomb or shoot up the school..."

[Comment: Twice?? I heard about 4-20-04, but what's the other one?]


"He... worshipped the Columbine killers, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold"

[He did? So why doesn't he mention their names once in any of his writings? Or maybe he did, but that hasn't been released.]


"One time, he twisted his hair into Devil's horns and painted the horns red. He looked like a real Devil!"

[Comment: There's that satanic link again.]


"Weise and his "Goth" friends were teased for playing Yu-Gi-Oh! -- a card playing game based on a comic book series."

[Comment: Anybody know anything about that game?]


"They were called 'gay' by other kids," said May. "...he really hated anyone calling him 'gay'. He would go ballistic."

[Comment: There's that gay thing again.]

The Importance Of Reading Thread Names

Originally posted by weirdo

Originally posted by Majic

Originally posted by weirdo
I never stated ATS was free of criminals.Just potential child mass murders.

In light of why this thread exists in the first place, you might want to reconsider your position on this.

No this thread is about a child/adolesent who has commited mass murder.

The name of this thread is Username Weise here at ATS was Minn. Shooter Killer.

You aren't making any sense to me whatsoever.

Interesting Side Note

Whilst following some of the various links thoughtfully provided above, I found this little snippet to be of particular interest:

From MTV.com:
School Shooter Left Trail Of Clues On The Internet

[...]The FBI has not verified that all the postings are indeed from Weise, but at least one administrator of an online forum told the [New York] Times that a number of private messages received from Weise showed stark signs of problems. In them, Weise said his mother drank heavily and "hit me with anything she could get her hands on" prior to the car accident that left her brain-damaged and confined to a wheelchair in a nursing home.

"I have friends, but I'm basically a loner inside a group of loners," Weise wrote, according to the administrator. "I'm excluded from anything and everything they do. I'm never invited. I don't even know why they consider me a friend or I them." [...]

I find the “I'm basically a loner inside a group of loners” quote intriguing.

Aside from that, I wonder which “administrator of an online forum” disclosed the content of these messages to the New York Times?



[edit on 4/6/2005 by Majic]

Originally posted by Majic
The Importance Of Reading Thread Names

Originally posted by weirdo

Originally posted by Majic

Originally posted by weirdo
I never stated ATS was free of criminals.Just potential child mass murders.

In light of why this thread exists in the first place, you might want to reconsider your position on this.

No this thread is about a child/adolesent who has commited mass murder.

The name of this thread is Username Weise here at ATS was Minn. Shooter Killer.

You aren't making any sense to me whatsoever.

Weise if you look it up in the Dictionary killed multiple times which makes him a Mass Murderer.The Disscussion we are in has gone of the main Title of the thread ,as with all disscussions the will lead in various differant sub topics.

A lot has been said on this subject and its been intresting reading the thread, all i can say to add to it is rip to weise and the victums

Tenacious Lapses Of Logic

Um, okay. Let's see if I can work this out for you, step by step.

First, you said:

Originally posted by weirdo
I never stated ATS was free of criminals.Just potential child mass murders.

So you claimed that, in effect, ATS was free of potential child mass murders [sic].

Then I said:

Originally posted by Majic
In light of why this thread exists in the first place, you might want to reconsider your position on this.

That's because this thread is about an ATS member -- a child -- who turned out to be a mass murderer.

Then you said:

Originally posted by weirdo
No this thread is about a child/adolesent who has commited mass murder.

Seeming to ignore the fact that Weise was a member of ATS.

Then I said:

Originally posted by Majic
The name of this thread is Username Weise here at ATS was Minn. Shooter Killer.

My point, which you seem to be almost deliberately missing, is that since Weise was a child mass murderer, and that he was a member of ATS, your claim that ATS is free of them is obviously bogus.

What I find amazing is that you seem to continue to miss the point that your own words are contradicting your own claims.

I hate dragging this out, but again, I am truly stunned at how you insist on missing the point.

Is there any way I can illustrate your logical error any more clearly?

Here's the executive summary:

You claimed that ATS is free of “potential child mass murders”. Weise was a member of ATS and a “child mass murder”.

The point is you were wrong, and I was trying to make the point as nicely as I could.

Sorry to waste our time on the obvious.

Originally posted by Majic
Tenacious Lapses Of Logic

Um, okay. Let's see if I can work this out for you, step by step.

First, you said:

Originally posted by weirdo
I never stated ATS was free of criminals.Just potential child mass murders.

So you claimed that, in effect, ATS was free of potential child mass murders [sic].

Then I said:

Is there any way I can illustrate your logical error any more clearly?

Here's the executive summary:

You claimed that ATS is free of “potential child mass murders”. Weise was a member of ATS and a “child mass murder”.

The point is you were wrong, and I was trying to make the point as nicely as I could.

Sorry to waste our time on the obvious.

Weise was a member and is no longer.Can you prove that there are any further members on here with that potential.Statistically there wouldn`t be as quantity of members too small, but that could be wrong.true there is no way of noing you obviously believe people are less intelligent than you but l stand by my words.Weise was a one off.

Diminishing Returns

Originally posted by weirdo
Weise was a member and is no longer.Can you prove that there are any further members on here with that potential.Statistically there wouldn`t be as quantity of members too small, but that could be wrong.true there is no way of noing you obviously believe people are less intelligent than you but l stand by my words.Weise was a one off.

I guess I'm a slow learner. Once again, I see where this is heading.

Okay. Hold that thought.



Edit: Sigh. I'm Going To Hate Myself In The Morning

I can't help it. You are voicing a classic logical fallacy.

We have already seen it proven that the ATS member population has contained at least one mass murderer so far.

You are making the false assumption, without any evidence to support it, that there cannot possibly be more than one such mass murderer, citing the “odds” and claiming a “one-off”.

On what basis? Even if you go by “general statistics”, you are still making the fallacious assumption that mass murderers are distributed evenly and uniformly among populations, and they are not.

To see a mass murderer arise from the ranks of ATS and then assume that it couldn't happen again because it already has is irrational.

That's the basis of my objection, and your refusal to acknowledge it is the basis of my frustration.

If you have proof that there cannot be another mass murderer on ATS, then present it.

If not, then to reject the possibility that there could be another mass murderer on ATS on the grounds that it has already happened is fundamentally wrong and not supported by probability theory.

That's the point I'm trying to make.

[edit on 4/15/2005 by Majic]

Originally posted by Majic
Diminishing Returns

Originally posted by weirdo
Weise was a member and is no longer.Can you prove that there are any further members on here with that potential.Statistically there wouldn`t be as quantity of members too small, but that could be wrong.true there is no way of noing you obviously believe people are less intelligent than you but l stand by my words.Weise was a one off.

I guess I'm a slow learner. Once again, I see where this is heading.

Okay. Hold that thought.

Edit: Sigh. I'm Going To Hate Myself In The Morning

I can't help it. You are voicing a classic logical fallacy.

We have already seen it proven that the ATS member population has contained at least one mass murderer so far.

You are making the false assumption, without any evidence to support it, that there cannot possibly be more than one such mass murderer, citing the “odds” and claiming a “one-off”.

On what basis? Even if you go by “general statistics”, you are still making the fallacious assumption that mass murderers are distributed evenly and uniformly among populations, and they are not.

To see a mass murderer arise from the ranks of ATS and then assume that it couldn't happen again because it already has is irrational.

That's the basis of my objection, and your refusal to acknowledge it is the basis of my frustration.

If you have proof that there cannot be another mass murderer on ATS, then present it.

If not, then to reject the possibility that there could be another mass murderer on ATS on the grounds that it has already happened is fundamentally wrong and not supported by probability theory.

That's the point I'm trying to make.

[edit on 4/15/2005 by Majic]

Majic you really need to get over yourselve.

This as you have failed to grasp is a Discussion Board we disscuss not try to prove statements as if we are as accountable as in a court of law.I have no need or possibility of proving my statements,also that point stands for your your counter claims which really do show you to be really funny as you obviously take life so serious .
Since 1979 there have been 18 child school killers in a country with a population (fig from Census 2000 so far the most accurate but by no means 100%) of a population under 18yrs of 72.3 Million.

It is not irrational to assume it couldn`t happen again as the odds you rightly or wrongly disapprove of would increase the statistical possibility.Yes l know that could be argued the other way that if one was attracted to this site others would follow,but to date no survivng child school killer has every been a member of an internet disscussion board of this type.

Majic time to spend less time on your writing skills and more on your Psycological and Mathmatical understand of the subject .

This site holds very few attractions for the type of mentality shown by surviving child school killers.The oldest killers were 17 yrs in 1979 Brenda Spencer.Stephen Abbott and Jamie Rhous in 1995.The others of the 13 surviving killers were aged around 13 & 14 yrs.There more lets say colourful internet sites that would attract them.If you understood the subject better and concentrated less on scoring points in my writing you would have grasped the point l was making earlier

Majic l really used to like reading some of your points but recently you seem to have appointed yourselve as some kind of judge advocate bent on cross examining other people.I think you need to see somebody and disscuss points in your life.You need to learn that the frustration you feel when you come into contact with people that disagree with you is not a healthy view to have.You need to learn to understand people more and CHILL OUT ;p


[edit on 15-4-2005 by weirdo]

When In Doubt, Change The Subject To The Poster

Originally posted by weirdo
Majic you really need to get over yourselve.

This thread is not about me.

Your insults prove that I was right to believe it would be a waste of my time to pursue further discussion with you.

You are using troll tactics, and I fell for them.

I will not repeat the mistake.

Originally posted by Majic
When In Doubt, Change The Subject To The Poster

Originally posted by weirdo
Majic you really need to get over yourselve.

This thread is not about me.

Your insults prove that I was right to believe it would be a waste of my time to pursue further discussion with you.

You are using troll tactics, and I fell for them.

I will not repeat the mistake.

Hah Hah Hah.I`m not insulting you l just think you are lossing the point of this site.By the way you need to re read you postings as you do not disscuss you look for fault in peoples post with your constant irritating headings and quotes.This about you as you make it personnel.Plus you like to have the last say ;P

Wow.

Life is odd.

My condolences go out to the families of the victims. How horrible... the world is such a dreadful place.