Who voted in UK and why is always conservative or labour winning.

a reply to: LABTECH767

If John Smith hadn't of died no doubt we would be living in a different (better) world right now.

RiP John.

originally posted by: LABTECH767

But Labour is no less corrupt than the conservatives, this leaves us Brits feeling most of the time that we really don't have ANY Party to represent us.

You seem to misunderstand the scale of the corruption and blatant, cynical dismissal of any questions. Last year alone, we're looking at over £37 BILLION in shonky contracts.

a reply to: Whodathunkdatcheese

Labour ARE just as corrupt, remember Derek Hatton and Militant, he stole property belonging not only to individuals such as my own mother (and NEVER gave two hoots about the poor he was just a gangster in it for himself, a small time crook given power through council elections and he turned so many Liverpudlians AGAINST Labour that some have still not forgiven Labour for allowing him into the party to this very day) but also from the people of Liverpool itself.

There used to be a famous painting of the Liverpool Skyline during the blitz painted during WW2 by a famous artists, it was hung in Liverpool museum for the public but when Hatton took over control of the council it vanished, it then appeared in one of his Crony's offices hung on the wall, after Hatton was ousted and some of his Crony's with him it then disappeared, his own sister told my mum that he has an account in Switzerland and another on Cyprus full of the money he stole from both private individuals such as my mum and also from the people of Liverpool.

My mothers case is a bit big to go into but it all got swept under the rug when Operation Cheetah (A former police investigation into Hatton brought after repeated complains by my mother and other victims) was wound up after the so called Higher up's told the police to butt out.

Tony Blair was every bit as much a malfeasant as is BOJO, remember Cherry and her property fraud a case which was pushed under the rug because she was the prime ministers wife.

Now I too hate the Tory's, I hate Cameron for what he did to our poor, sick and needy, for the homelessness that he fostered, for harming children in poor family's and oh so many other crimes.

I do not for one moment believe that BoJo has any truly good intention toward the poor (but he is better than Cameron if only by a whisker - though the poor will have to pay for this lockdown as the Tory's will never put the burden onto the rich it is simply not there way).

But you can't call the kettle black when the pot is just as filthy.

Oh I do not for one moment misunderstand the level of corruption in our nation, the hierarchy are nothing but a bunch of crooks and thieves.

But do remember it was also Labour MP's that were accepting money under the table and lobbying for private firm's and that likely still goes on even with supposed rules in place they are just more discreet about how they do it these days in case some reporter is listening in.


Look every political party has good and bad people, there opinions divide them but that does not make them necessarily evil just because they support the Tory's but on the whole the Labour Party - OLD LABOUR was the GOOD Party - AFTER the Liberals created a state in which the Labour Party could actually rise to power since it was the Liberals (no relation to the so called Lib Dem's the OLD WIGS not the party of today) that gave the working class the vote, only then did Labour become a possibility and only then did it rise, so in fact a NEW Labour party could reflect upon this in it's New Name and sorry but we need great mind's to either save the old or create a new Labour Party based on the TRADITIONAL values for which the old one stood but which sadly today under Keir etc it no longer does.

Have we all forgotten the number of Quango's under the Bliar administration and how many of his acolytes and cronies were appointed to these bodies?

The Tories quite rightly vilified Bliar for the inefficiencies and sometimes incestual nature of some of these Quango's.
But strangely enough Cameron carried on in pretty much the same way as did May and as does Boris.

There are currently 1162 government Quango's, Agencies and non-Ministerial bodies with a total expenditure of £101746.4million.

All of these unelected bodies have at least some degree of control over our lives.

The system is rotten to the core and requires urgent and radical reform.

a reply to: Freeborn

Brilliant point, I completely forgot about that.

The Quango, Quasi Unelected - Autonomous (not sure about this one) - Non Governmental Organisation, they were to Blair and subsequent governments pretty much what the privatisation had once been a method of siphoning public fund's into private pockets of the politicians through these affiliated - unofficially of course - organisations.

Cameron brought in a French company owned by a female friend of his (and money and favours go both ways in those kind of friendships) to assess the sick and find ways to forcing the ill and disabled off there benefits, on the whole I believe the Tory's are far worse therefore than Labour but sadly we don't have a party that is worthy of the white hat.

a reply to: LABTECH767

I think The Tories are more open and blatant about how they go about lining their own pockets and those of their backers and puppet masters.
Labour seem to be more discreet in their nefarious dealings.
The point is; both party's feed from the same trough and their primary concern is the preservation of the status quo that allows them to do so.
Is it any wonder when the vast majority of these career politico's come from the same background and have absolutely no idea or understanding of the everyday concerns of the ordinary people of this country and have no desire whatsoever to represent them and their wishes.

Literally millions upon millions are being spent by these unelected bodies yet no-one speaks up and voices any concerns about them.

It is the country's best interests that we have a strong Opposition to keep the incumbent administration on its guard and to exercise a certain amount of oversight.
Just as Boris and his gang - just like his two predecessors - are in my opinion a particularly abysmal gang of miscreants the Opposition party are decidedly lame and ineffectual.

The Tories allege to be the party of law and order yet they they have hamstrung the police force by underfunding them and forcing in vogue political restraints on them.
They are also being criminally negligent in their decimation of our Armed Forces.
I wouldn't be surprised if its all due to a future intent to privatise to varying degrees....all in the name of profit of course.

And Labour are obsessed with furthering the cause of every single special interest group and have completely abandoned their core traditional vote - white, working class people in urban areas.
They are dominated by London based middle-class 'intelligentsia' and their woke agenda.

Both party's are dominated by people who have never done a real days work in the real life and had real life worries.
These people have an arrogance that knows no bounds. Even the best intentioned firmly believe they know what is best for 'the people' and that they have some sort of divine right to impose their opinion on us.

All whilst conspiring to milk this country dry in one form or another.

a reply to: Freeborn

Exactly, they see championing Minority's as there main cause when in fact Labour began as the Champion of the Majority.

As a former members of Keir Starmer's front bench put it Labour has been subverted by Woke Warriors.

Now this is coming from an Asian MP so while I agree on the White comment I have to say it is far more complex than that and I would personally leave that bit out as while I may agree it is not really that relevant to the situation.
metro.co.uk...

The fact is that to my mind if a family live, mix, fight for and suffer for our nation to me there colour is neither here nor there.

If however they want to push there COMMUNITY's agenda over the well being of the NATION then I have a problem, I am against such laws as enacted under the Blair Era as PRO DISCRIMINATION which is in fact making it a legal obligation for company's to discriminate AGAINST white British in favour or ethnic minority's and to my mind that is not and never will be conducive to integration, rather it stokes the fires of resentment, angers the British people and creates racial hatred and divide were none had existed before, so we CAN add that to the list of faults with Labour but it was NEW Labour not REAL LABOUR - remember how the Labour Party took a break away party calling itself REAL Labour to court to destroy them once the coup by the closet right wing 'never worked a hard day in there lives' group that turned it into NEW Labour had taken control of the party.

Sadly this woke crowd have even infiltrated the TUC which is a serious problem since unlike the Tory's whom raise there money from WEALTHY Donors the Labour Party raises it's money from Union Membership and contributions paid via the TUC and most of those people that pay for there union's do NOT want the woke agenda being pushed as representing them when it does not, in fact it has probably caused massive damage to trade union membership, that and of course the Tory's having stripped Unions of just about every power they used to have.

a reply to: LABTECH767

No-one is a more outspoken critic of racism than I am and I was very active in movements like Rock Against Racism back in the day - I'm showing my age there!
I passionately oppose discrimination no matter what shape or form it takes.

But you prove my point; no-one is allowed to point out that the single most under-represented demographic in this country is white, working class males.
Anyone saying this is immediately vilified and labelled racist and advised to shut up yet every single minority or special interest group has very vocal advocates and supporters pushing their particular cause and voicing their concerns.
Yet who is standing up for white, working class men?
Who is looking after their cares and concerns?

I have black friends who literally piss themselves laughing over this.

I neither expect or want preferential treatment.
I am no better than anyone else....but I'm no #ing worse as well and I deserve as fair a chance as anyone else regardless of race, creed, sexuality or anything else.

If any major politician had the balls to stand up and say something like that they would be voted into Westminster in an absolute landslide.

That doesn't mean that we should be any less fervent in the fight against discrimination of any sort, far from it.
Quite the opposite.
But we need to stop pandering to the woke agenda and every single special interest group.

A middle class black person has a far better chance of succeeding in this country than any working class person....including white males.

a reply to: LABTECH767

Let's imagine that your examples are less than 15 years old.

Which part of £32 billion is comparable to a missing painting or a shonky flat purchase.

a reply to: Freeborn

I absolutely agree.

originally posted by: Freeborn
Have we all forgotten the number of Quango's under the Bliar administration and how many of his acolytes and cronies were appointed to these bodies?

Fair point about the quangos, but they were started by Thatcher precisely so they could be run by appointees rather than elected officials.

originally posted by: Freeborn

But you prove my point; no-one is allowed to point out that the single most under-represented demographic in this country is white, working class males.
Anyone saying this is immediately vilified and labelled racist and advised to shut up yet every single minority or special interest group has very vocal advocates and supporters pushing their particular cause and voicing their concerns.
Yet who is standing up for white, working class men?
Who is looking after their cares and concerns?

You are allowed to point it out. You just did.

Who is standing up for white working class men? The left. Not liberals. Not paper Tories like Keir Starmer. The left.

Notorious leftie Owen Jones made his reputation arguing that the liberal obsession with race was intended to hide problems of class and that the white working class paid for it the most. www.goodreads.com...

a reply to: LABTECH767

On the point of "woke", when does "woke" actually impact on anyone's day-to-day life?

Like EU laws, everyone has an issue with them but nobody can give a specific example of how it impacts them personally.

originally posted by: Whodathunkdatcheese
a reply to: LABTECH767

Let's imagine that your examples are less than 15 years old.

Which part of £32 billion is comparable to a missing painting or a shonky flat purchase.

Good point but you have to remember the difference, the Conservatives have a different ethic and belief to OLD (AKA TRUE) Labour,.

While Labour believe in abolishing division in society, creating a fair and equitable society for everyone, one in which a person can achieve anything based on there own personal merit and in which the state will help the poor and the downtrodden, end homelessness and feed the population.

The Tory's believe in what can only be termed SMALL government, one which does not care about the people (no matter what they say) but only about the pecking order, the rich, the elite are the ones they serve not the electorate no matter how they may spin that.

Also you have to remember that when Thatcher sold off the national assets the Tory's then tried to use every penny so as to not leave any for any possible future labour government to reinvest in renationalising the assets they had sold off.

In short the Tory's have always been crooked but some of them have been above board and decent, the same with Labour, most politicians you will find are tarred just as Freeborn points out with the same brush, they are peas in a pod.

Basically there are a handful of good men and woman among them and the rest of them are on a bloody good scam at our expense.

As to that money, old Labour would have been the ones to fight back on that obvious criminal embezzlement but New Labour AKA Keir Starmer the Blairites bunch are just as bad as them.

IF - IF - True Labour takes back control, get's those woke warriors to stop and go join the bloody greens or something then the Tory's will have something to truly fear but otherwise they will do as they want knowing that the other side are just as bad as themselves and that there will therefore be no repercussions in the future under a Labour government and no major public enquiry into the matter (if one is held under the Tory's it will be a whitewash, if one is held under New Labour it will be mostly a whitewash as they have dirt on one another but if one was held under a Genuine Labour government - not Keir and his wannabes - then criminal charges may even follow such an enquiry).

a reply to: Whodathunkdatcheese

Ever watch the TV, want your kid's to have a wholesome upbringing but instead they are being educated GAY right's even when they are too young to even understand what Gay mean's in any real sense of the word, are having Gay cartoon characters, comic book characters and Gay men on almost every tea time show so that they can not even live innocent lives any longer because SOMEONE with a woke agenda wanted to push Gay Agenda over that of the Child (Aka our FUTURE) Agenda.

That is just an example, Parents can teach there kid's and to respect others no matter there differences but when Woke Agenda's are affecting our media, our politician's decisions and even our Children's future.

Woke has NO place in politics except when it is the will of the people, it is not or else they would not be trying to brainwash everyone, allowing public service broadcasters like the BBC to air such things before the watershed and pushing down people's throats.

Unions can not peacefully picket (And it is now mostly against the law thanks' to the Tory's and no affective opposition) without being attacked by police, arrested etc or charged with Civil or even criminal offences but Gay right's marchers can gather in there thousands and stop city traffic and march in any city, minority's can pray in the middle of the bloody road and march insulting our soldiers when they come home (Sparking outrage in most genuine British).

Get it, something is wrong.

Woke is Broke, it is wrong.

Waking up is not being Woke in that sense of the word because they want the rest of us to go to bloody sleep so they can run the world according to there crazy house beliefs.


And don't get me wrong I have nothing against anyone but I don't want my kid's to be brainwashed into what is essentially an AGENDA of someone that does not have THERE best interest at heart.

Basically the public are Sick of the Woke Agenda impacting there lives, filling there media and even finding voice in the party they WOULD have voted for but since it is championing the Woke minority's and other minority's and no longer THERE champion they just stopped voting for them.

People KNOW the Tory's are crooked but at least they are not pushing idiocy and woke minority's down there throats and until that changes Labour is sadly more so to us that always Voted Labour, finished.

a reply to: Whodathunkdatcheese

You are allowed to point it out. You just did.

On a relatively obscure international conspiracy website with a passionate but rather limited audience.

Ever see anyone voicing such an opinion on MSM?
Do you ever hear anyone on ITV, BBC, Sky airing such sentiments.....and bear in mind they are very common and hard held opinions in working class communities.

Who is standing up for white working class men? The left.

Where?
Did Jeremy Corbyn ever stand up for white, working class men during his tenure as Labour Party Leader?
If you believe so please give me a link to anything where he specifically does so?
If you can I will gladly hold my hand up and say I was wrong etc.

Where and how are 'the left' standing up for white, working class men?
Where are the advocates for their 'special interests'?
Where are the working groups committed to furthering their particular cares and concerns?

It simply isn't happening.

Not liberals. Not paper Tories like Keir Starmer.

I agree with you there, I just think that generally speaking 'the left' are at least as equally dismissive of, condescending to and disinterested in white, working class males.

Notorious leftie Owen Jones.....

He's that 'notorious' that I guarantee you that 99% of working class people - regardless of race, gender, creed etc - have ever heard of him let alone read or heard anything he's written or had to say.

....made his reputation arguing that the liberal obsession with race was intended to hide problems of class and that the white working class paid for it the most. www.goodreads.com...

I've got to admit, looks like an interesting read and I'll certainly be looking it up.

But just who is he getting his 'message' across to?
I'd suggest it's more than likely mainly to other people like him, from his socio-economic background.
I'm certainly not intending to question his personal conviction etc but just look at his upbringing etc; parents both members of Militant, his mother a Professor, he's an Oxford graduate, worked as a lobbyist then a parliamentary researcher for John McDonnell before becoming a journalist and a firm fixture in the London based left-wing 'intelligentsia' that dominates Labour at present.

I don't mean to sound dismissive of Owen Jones - especially considering I've never really known anything much at all about him until I read your post - but is he more concerned with political theory and dogma rather than the actual cares and concerns of people free from any sort of political bias?

You see, these people have been ignored, dismissed, ridiculed and treat with casual disdain for so long now that they don't give a toss about political theories and rhetoric and party allegiance they just want politicians etc to actually listen to them and do something.

Acts and deeds.

a reply to: LABTECH767

Exactly.

Watching UK TV you get the impression that every other person is Black/Asian, that every relationship is mixed race, that same sex relationships are almost as common as mixed sex relationships.
If truly representative of the UK then TV would have us believe that almost 50% of the population is non-white and are gay etc.

I really don't give a toss what consenting adults get up to but as you rightly point out, the gay agenda being pushed at our children is a disgrace and should not be encouraged.

During lockdown I watched a few episodes of Vera - a bit of escapist TV has been a necessity for everyone I think.
Its set in the North East and a lot of it is based in the Northumberland countryside.
Of course there is the obligatory non-white family's etc in these stories.
Now I can more or less assure you that black people in the wild Northumberland countryside are about as common as the proverbial rocking horse #.
That's not because they aren't welcome or because the people who do live there are racist, as far as I can tell they simply don't want to live there.

In this instance UK TV is being decidedly UNrepresentative.

Vera is not unique.

Heads have started to roll at Labour party HQ , Reshuffle underway and Angela Rayner sacked as party chair and election strategist but keeps her role as deputy leader as she was elected to the role by party members.

Former shadow chancellor John McDonnell said the decision to remove Ms Rayner was a “cowardly avoidance of responsibility”.

The senior party figure tweeted: “Keir Starmer said yesterday that he took full responsibility for the election result in Hartlepool and other losses.

“Instead today he’s scapegoating everyone apart from himself.

“This isn’t leadership, it’s a cowardly avoidance of responsibility.”

Gaya Sriskanthan, Momentum co-chair, called the move, “blatant scapegoating,” saying of Sir Keir: “It is his failed strategy that has brought us to this point, and he said he would take responsibility. Yet again he has gone back on his word.”
www.standard.co.uk...

Civil war inbound , Labour do that so well.

a reply to: gortex

It is a bit 'cowardly' for Starmer to make Rayner the scapegoat but if she was in charge of election strategy then it's only right that she take a large portion of the blame.

There seems to be a recurring trend here; leadership refusing to accept their share of responsibility after all, Jeremy Corbyn repeatedly refused to accept any sort of blame for Labour's continued election defeats and for the electorate's increasing alienation from his Labour Party, leadership and policies.

And the criticism is a bit rich coming from McDonnell, a man whose support of the I.R.A. amongst other policies core Labour supporters took particular exception to.

On the one hand we have the champagne socialists and social justice warrior types and on the other we have the Tory lite.
The vast majority are part of the London based politico's who share similar backgrounds with their Tory counterparts and exactly the same as them have no experience or understanding of real life for literally millions upon millions of British people.

I have no intention of sidetracking this thread but as a slight aside we have to face up to the FACT that Scotland is somewhat out of synch with rUK at present.

And why is that?

One of the reasons is undoubtedly the decline in support for Labour not just in Scotland but in England as well.
As English voters has deserted Labour in droves - we all know the reasons why - it has left Scotland feeling alienated and disconnected from rUK.
Scotland could literally return 59 Labour MP's to Westminster and at present it wouldn't matter one little bit, they would still have a Tory government - I know that would piss me off.
And many of the Scots I know, and I know quite a few, are just as fed up with the woke nature of Labour and their emphasis on identity politics etc and their desertion of their core traditional support base.

They despise The Tories with a passion - one of the many shared values etc - and feel they have no alternative but to support Sturgeon and her ilk.
Almost as much as The Tories and their austerity etc Labour and its wokism is almost forcing Scotland down the road to separation from the rest of The United Kingdom....that in my book is treason!