Jesus was betrayed for vast sums of money and power

a reply to: SlapMonkey

No, that’s not what I claimed at all, nothing like it, not my words, ever and yes, your claim is at the least ignorant

your argument to the story is it’s not a true story, why even comment if none of it’s true?
Herod was an attested murderer and killed many, it was his character, he also knew of the messianic prophecies,
Bible was written 70 odd years after Christ’s death, if that wasn’t a true story, remembered in that generation, the bible would have been ignored

Anyway, believe what you want
Jesus was not an unknown according to the crowds attested (you can deny that as well)
You will have to give me more evidence and support before I take note your opinion

Jesus came from no where, stepped in and started to overthrow one of the oldest existing religions and cultures on earth, and you think nobody noticed, I tend to disagree
All though you probably don’t believe the story, Jesus was executed because Jesus was subverting a whole religion

Actually Slap, are you an atheist?
Have you studied any of this, history, or just an opinion based on what you have picked up here and there
Many people in Israel claimed to be the messiah, become huge issues because Israel were desperate for a messiah

originally posted by: Raggedyman
No, that’s not what I claimed at all, nothing like it, not my words, ever and yes, your claim is ignorant and false

Yeah, okay. Well, you countered my claim that contemporary writings of the time do not support the claim that he was widely known amongst or a threat to the elite at the time by using a single account of Herod doing a disputed action as proof that I'm wrong, so if that's not your claim, what is?

Book was written 70 odd years after Christ’s death, if that wasn’t a true story, remembered in that generation, the bible would have been ignored

Again with the logical fallacy. No, that's a false dichotomy. There are many plausible scenarios between "It must be true" or "It didn't happen."

You will have to give me more evidence and support before I take note your opinion

Evidence of what? You need to be more specific, because there is a LACK of contemporary evidence that Jesus was widely known and seen as a major threat, and there is a severe lack of any empirical evidence that the 'slaughter of the innocents' actually occurred or occurred as Matthew 2 claims. So, I'm confused, because since you are using Herod as the example to prove my initial comment wrong, the onus lies on YOU to give more evidence that expands past "because these couple verses in this 2,000-year-old book says so, so it must be true."

Jesus came from no where, stepped in and started to overthrow one of the oldest existing religions and cultures on earth, and you think nobody noticed

Where did I say "nobody noticed?" No, that's not what I claimed at all, nothing like it, not my words, ever.

Actually Slap, are you an atheist?

Why does that matter? The answer to that holds zero bearing on what I'm saying or what biblical scholars are saying or what the historical record knows at this point in our lives.

On a side note, Rainbow Dash is the best.

Is it really betrayal, with shock an awe if he knew a good bit before hand, an did nothing about Judas kissing an telling which one was Jesus?

All the while some how still being apart of "The Plan of Plans."

a reply to: Raggedyman

So Herod killed all the males born under the age of two

Because Jesus came to claim a kingly messiah role. He was descended from David. I dont buy the Bible line that he was soley here as a spiritual teacher.

Rome ( Pilate ) killed Jesus at the behest of the sanhedrin

wiki

The Gospel of Luke does not state that Herod did not condemn Jesus, and instead attributes that conclusion to Pilate who then calls together the Court elders, and says to them: ... After further conversations between Pilate and the Court elders, Jesus is sent to be crucified on Calvary.

wiki Herod

Herod I also known as Herod the Great, was a Roman client king of Judea, referred to as the ... Upon Herod's death, the Romans divided his kingdom among three of his sons and his sister: Archelaus became ... Similarly, Joseph was warned in a dream that Herod intended to kill Jesus, so he and his family fled to Egypt.

a reply to: Raggedyman

Bible was written 70 odd years after Christ’s death, if that wasn’t a true story, remembered in that generation, the bible would have been ignored

No. You're even betting against scholars

www.google.com... - 1st Published Bible

Which Bible is the original Bible?
Bible #1. The oldest surviving full text of the New Testament is the beautifully written Codex Sinaiticus, which was “discovered” at the St Catherine monastery at the base of Mt Sinai in Egypt in the 1840s and 1850s. Dating from circa 325-360 CE, it is not known where it was scribed – perhaps Rome or Egypt.30 Aug 2018

Jesus came from no where,

Really? Again you're loose with facts. Being descended from David would have been pretty awesome if you were a Jew. Didnt they do genealogies then?

At least quote some links , to show that you have an understanding of the written word, an not look foolish

www.google.com...

Jacob begot Joseph, the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ. Thus there were fourteen generations in all from Abraham to David, fourteen from David to the exile to Babylon, and fourteen from the exile to the Christ."

Actually Slap, are you an atheist?
Have you studied any of this, history, or just an opinion based on what you have picked up here and there

hahaha Pot Meet Kettle

a reply to: Specimen88


Yeah contrived self fulfilling prophecy for martydom, Judas was the 1st scapegoat

So, why did Jesus choose Judas? The reason that Jesus chose Judas was so that the Scriptures would be fulfilled. ... Judas was the “son of destruction.” Rather, Jesus chose Judas knowing fully that he had a wicked and unbelieving heart that would lead to betrayal (John 6:64; 70-71) in fulfillment of the Scriptures

originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: CharGreen

The rough estimate for what Judas turned his brohan over in today's value is about $200. I don't know about you but that doesn't qualify as a vast amount of money.

It was a lot of money back then. And then Judas had his intestines' fall out when he went to inspect the property he bought with the silver he received for his betrayal, after tripping and falling on some object.

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

Yeah ok, Bible was written centuries but I should have said letters and gospels as individual records, not the bible as a whole, silly me

As for Jesus coming from nowhere, well, at best He was a builder with no real recorded formal training, yes Davidic heritage but, not a classic and trained heir or military tactician as expected

Though, not sure you are really interested in explaining rather than scoring points

a reply to: NoCorruptionAllowed

I gave you the value with inflation factored in, it wasn't a lot. A laborer of the era could make around 100 sesterces per month and a craftsmen over 300.

a reply to: Raggedyman

at best He was a builder with no real recorded formal training,

Not much is mentioned in the NT about that the missing years between 12 and 29

en.wikipedia.org...

The "lost years of Jesus" concept is usually encountered in esoteric literature (where it at times also refers to his possible post-crucifixion activities) but is not commonly used in scholarly literature since it is assumed that Jesus was probably working as a carpenter in Galilee, at least some of the time with Joseph, from the age of 12 to 29.[2][3][4]

If you look at our encounters I usually provide some links unlike most of your posts. Its not about scoring points. I'm not a scholar, just am trying to be logical and provide some context for my comments.

In all honesty you usually have at least 1 snarky comment in most of your posts. If you click on the little man beloiw your avatar and see "posts in thread" you'll see what I mean. Its also helpfiul for all of us to be doing that to get an overall picture and context to see where we're coming from and to better understand the other posters point of view

a reply to: TheConstruKctionofLight

My point is not mute, Jesus rode a donkey into Jerusalem and the crowds came out in force, heralding the Messiah, Jesus wasn’t an unknown
For Slapmonkey to suggest Jesus was an unknown or whatever is ignorant of recorded history, a history he seems to deny at any rate

a reply to: incoserv


Nice try at a backhanded insult, but by bringing in nuance to the equation, you are saying that things are up to anyone to make up anything that suits their conscious.

Again, so who is the arbiter of said nuance? You? Me? I dare say that would solve nothing, like your post.

originally posted by: Guyfriday
a reply to: CharGreen

Was he though? Judas never denied Jesus like the other apostles did, and lets not forget the Jesus trusted that Judah would do what God instructed him to do.

Maybe you should be looking at Judah and see what his roll in this whole caper really was, and why Jesus, who already knew what Judah was going to do, would keep him around.

I think the idea of Judah selling out Jesus was more a talking point, rather then a real event.

That’s an interesting take and an argument I’ve heard somewhere else before. Can’t for the life of me place where though.

originally posted by: lakenheath24
a reply to: incoserv


Nice try at a backhanded insult, but by bringing in nuance to the equation, you are saying that things are up to anyone to make up anything that suits their conscious.

Again, so who is the arbiter of said nuance? You? Me? I dare say that would solve nothing, like your post.

I'll say again ...



CONTEXT!
:

Double post ...

Perhaps, I'm no Biblical scholar.

But what I always found amusing during my much younger "prosperity gospel" days was when the super-rich preachers justified their wealth (and "contextualized" several verses that caution against earthly riches and mammon, and the parable of the rich man and the eye of the needle, or the beggar being carried to Abraham's side while the rich man cried for one last chance in hell) by claiming that the Roman soldiers gambled for Christ's coat.

See, He was rich!
He had the most expensive technicolor dreamcoat since Joseph!
Therefore it figures that mega-church pastors should be super-rich too.
Thus went the dubious logic.
All justified because Jesus had a coat.

Jesus was killed because he represented a threat to the relative peace the Jews and the occupying Romans had at that time. He claimed (and was probably right) to be related to King Solomon. He was gathering a pretty large following thanks to those he "inherited" from his cousin, John the Baptist, after he let poor Johnny be decapitated. He could have used his influence to stop it, but didn't for numerous reasons, many having to do with political maneuvering.

The more stories you read about the whole Jesus thing, including the Gnostic texts and stuff like the Infancy Gospels, the story changes from one about a persecuted demi-god to a political thriller. It's about a rich Egyptian sorcerer, pretender to the Jewish throne and rabble rouser who pushed too hard and too fast and started believing his own hype and may have been infected by psychological (and perhaps real in some way) demons. Particularly when he started raising people from the dead. Even his own followers thought he was nuts at that point.

Someday I will write that political thriller as a screenplay that nobody would ever buy or make into a movie, even though it has sex, violence, intrigue, and supernatural aspects and makes way more sense than the sketchy messiah story.

originally posted by: halfoldman
See, He was rich!

Hey, that gold, frankincense and myrrh those Three Kings gave him as a baby would have set him up for life in those days. An his father, Joseph, was a relatively high-ranking member of the Sanhedrin. This was no humble hippie, as a lot of people seem to think. Easiest way to turn water into wine? Cash-ola!

A lot of people who call themselves firm believers have never actually read the Bible but have it spoon-fed to them by preachers with an agenda. (Hint: Money)