Song for a Dark Queen

Aghori cannibal necromancers are a good example of what worshipping the demoness Kali does to you. Completely insane. In any decent society they would be rounded up and shot, then burned. The author of the below article is also very suspect.

My friends were members of Aghor, a sect of renegades who proudly reject the trappings of social propriety, sectarian labels and the world of appearances. Their secretive lifestyle, which includes ritual consecration and consumption of human flesh, and even sexual rites amidst burning pyres, is designed to shock the perceptual framework so as to break the barriers between what is considered sacred and profane, the holy and unholy—all rigid dichotomies that dominate the bourgeois middle class.

In Tolaram’s view, most Hindus worshipped Shiva and Kali as a cultivated social requirement, but what the deities actually demand from their followers is not acceptable to the vast majority. Aghors are the only ones willing to please Kali, by “ripping the veil off reality and jumping straight into the abyss,” with no thought to self-preservation or the laws that govern polite society.

qz.com...

a reply to: primalfractal

I think they over elaborate because Nanaya should be the only incarnate form of that Pentad, so to have all five aspects supposedly running around is a bit silly, the five aspects should be resolved into the one person.

The deities who appear on the papyrus are of great variety as well, with the most prominent being a divine pair called Mar (mār, “Lord”) and Marah (mār(ʾ)ā, “Lady”).While Marah is expressly an epithet for Nanay or Nanaya, the identification of Mar in the papyrus is more difficult. It is possible that “Mar” is a theonym by analogy with deities from the Roman and Parthian periods who are called Marnā or Māran, “our Lord,” such as Marnas of Gaza described by Porphyry, or Māran of Hatra, who belongs to a divine triad with his spouse Mārtan “our Lady,” and a son Barmārēn “Son of our Lord.”

On the divine triad Māran, Mārtan, and Bārmārēn in Parthian Hatra While Māran is probably the sun-god, the other two in the triad are hard to identify; but see ibid. for the suggestion that Mārtan “our Lady,” is Nanaya.

Martinus can be taken as of the Lady/Martan in the sense of a son, as i noted in correlating this to the Babylonian Erua/Sarpanit as Queen of Babylon through Coma Berenices that was the pregnant Goddess of seed, thus relating to a bloodline descended from her.

That is likely also the basis for very early Scottish Free Masonry which can be traced back to the early Christian/Hellenistic-Judaism period of the Late Roman Empire, but much of that is a conceit of the Nobility, they obviously symbolized this as a cult of the mystical Rose though, relating to the Pentad, though Rosicrucianism is pointless, they forget whose tradition this was.

a reply to: primalfractal

The three Marys was also a latin reference to the three stars of Orion. (i think also there are 3 sets of mary in the bible. The marys would point to the messanic star. Being a representation of SIrius. Same for Ishtar (east star 0 morning star)
Being kemetic for ISIS and her sisters - represented by anubis ) the jounrey of death.

a reply to: Madrusa

Some more on the Cathar baptism of fire.

They alone have kept the spiritual baptism with fire which Christ instituted, and which has no connexion with the water baptism of John; for the latter was an unregenerate soul, who failed to recognize the Christ, a Jew whose mode of baptism with water belongs to the fleeting outward world and is opposed to the kingdom of God. It would be interesting to trace Bardesanes and the Syriac Hymn of the Soul in all this.

The Cathars fell into two classes, corresponding to the Baptized and the Catechumens of the early church, namely, the Perfect, who had been "consoled," i.e. had received the gift of the Paraclete

theodora.com...

Amongst other things I think it is probably a path up the central tree Trishanku, although I've got no idea if they developed it to that point. Even without that the positive benefits would have far outweighed a dunking.

Trishanku (त्रिशंकु) is a king in Hindu religion who belonged to Ishvaku descendancy. Trishanku is commonly referred to through mention of "Trishanku's heaven".

The furious Vishwamitra would not accept defeat at the hands of Indra. The sage used his powers to arrest Trishanku's fall, causing the latter to be suspended mid-air upside-down.

Trishanku begged Vishwamitra for help and the sage once again used his powers, this time beginning the creation of a parallel heaven in a portion of the southern sky. As the new heaven was built, the sage raised Trishanku to it and restored him to his former state before being cursed.

en.wikipedia.org...

More advanced practitioners see energy lines in the air, they look for a vertical one and climb it to heaven. There is very similar accounts worldwide, heaven will appear as the tradition dictates, Sky Gods, Saints and Angels, ancestors etc.








- Shaking Medicine, Bradford Keely

I think it's similar but not the same as the Fire of Anteres. More like straight God love heart fire, purifying, but without the dangerous element.

In the right conditions it can spread like wildfire. Images of businesspeeps en masse throwing off their shoes and dancing all night on a streetcorner, all loved up in uncontrollable ecstatic, spiritual bliss come to mind.

a reply to: primalfractal

It's interesting, in tracing back the inception of the Heavenly fire that would be the union of Anu and Urash/Earth and from that is born Nisaba/Virgo, the golden grain and the daughter of Nisaba is Nin-lil/Coma Berenices, the Lady of the wind and the introduction of spiritual phenomena and ghosts/soul, the passing of time, seasons and destiny.

Nin-lil gives birth to the Moon and the concept of the White Goddess related to it's cycle and from that Inanna as the movements of Venus, as a Goddess of hair Coma Berenices should relate more to observation of the wind in passing, subtle spiritual development, it is only in the incarnation of Inanna does this directly relate to the existential, and that through syncretism with Goddess Nazi of the waters, daughter of Enki, and the Heavenly fire that binds the two principles.

As Galactic North is located in Coma Berenices she is the Goddess of the chill North wind that counters the Southern, a very cool spiritual phenomena that can send shivers up the spine, so it is only the introduction of other elements, Urash/Earth, Anu/Fire and Enki/water that can produce the living incarnation of Nin-lil, the principle of Spiritual Purity, the Lady of the Cathars and also Guan Yin in the North East of Asia.

a reply to: Madrusa

in tracing back the inception of the Heavenly fire that would be the union of Anu and Urash/Earth and from that is born Nisaba/Virgo, the golden grain

Potato Mama's gotta be the funniest version.

Axomamma (also Acsumamma and Ajomamma) is a goddess of potatoes in Inca mythology. She is one of the daughters of Pachamama, the earth mother. Potatoes forms a vital part of the food supply of the Incan people, and most villages would have a particularly odd-shaped potato to worship and ask for a good harvest. Axomama's name, which means “potato mother,” 

Interesting Guan Yin sorta took over the male bohdisatva Avalokiteśvara's role, sounds decisive, beginning of the return to sanity perhaps.

Another story from the Precious Scroll of Fragrant Mountain (香山寶卷) describes an incarnation of Guanyin as the daughter of a cruel king Miaozhuang Wang who wanted her to marry a wealthy but uncaring man. The story is usually ascribed to the research of the Buddhist monk Jiang Zhiqi during the 11th century. The story is likely to have its origin in Taoism. When Jiang penned the work, he believed that the Guanyin we know today was actually a princess called Miaoshan (妙善), who had a religious following on Fragrant Mountain.

In China Kuan-yin came to be most frequently worshipped in female form as the Goddess of Mercy. This transformation from an originally male deity into a female one seems to have occurred sometime during the Northern Sung dynasty (960-1126) and is reflected in Kuan-yin's miracluous appearance in human form in the legend of Miao-shan.

and the Heavenly fire that binds the two principles.

Glue 😂

a reply to: primalfractal

It's interesting the extent the cult of Nanaya in particular entered into and influenced Central Asia, she was the main Goddess in Bactria Margiana and along the silk road, in Iran she correlated to Anahita the only Feminine aspect in Zoroastrianism, in particular this would have related to the Royal cult of the Princess/Queen and that Guan Yin derived from such origins is likely, this connection of Guan Yin to Nanaya can be seen in the early tradition, it was also the case this transpired in the Aryan heartland were the language was Sanskrit, which became something of a magical language, the only aspect of the Goddess cults then which tended to linger on was that of her physical incarnation, some might say that the least likely aspect though i suppose also the hardest to ignore.

a reply to: Madrusa

The Central Asian manifestations are relating Nanaya to Sarasvatī, the Hindu goddess of knowledge, music, art, speech, wisdom, and learning, like Anahita a River Goddess, this is Sara in the sense of fluid/liquid.

She is generally shown to have four arms, holding a book, a rosary, a water pot and a musical instrument called Veena.

An iconic shrine cult of Aredvi Sura Anahita was – together with other shrine cults – "introduced apparently in the 4th century BCE
The words sūra and anāhīta are generic Avestan language adjectives,and respectively mean "mighty" and "pure
Like the Devi Saraswati, [Aredvi Sura Anahita] nurtures crops and herds; and is hailed both as a divinity and the mythical river that she personifies, 'as great in bigness as all these waters which flow forth upon the earth'

This is supported by how Ishtar "apparently"[gave Aredvi Sura Anahita the epithet Banu, 'the Lady', a typically Mesopotamian construct that is not attested as an epithet for a divinity in Iran before the common era.

The cult of the divine couple Nana / Siyavush, or the Mother-Goddess and the Sun-God, became widespread in Central Asia with the arrival of the Kushans. The Iranians’ Mother Goddess was named Anahita and their Sun-God was named Mithras. Nana/Nanaya is depicted with four arms, holding the Sun and Moon in her hands. Siyavush, the Rider-God is her companion and son.

This goddess is particularly important for the Kushan rulers. On Sanab’s coins, she is placing the wreath of kinghship on the head of the ruler, who is on horseback. She is the patroness of the Kushan state and it is from her that Kanishka received the royal power. During Kanishka’s reign, a full body image of Nana, Nanaya holding a spear, ending with a lunar image (a Crescent moon) is used. The image of Nana is also found on coins, minted by the older Yuezhi

In Khotan, the image of a goddess with four arms, riding a lion, who is identical to the middle Asian Nana is widespread.
She is depicted on small wooden icons and murals in Buddhist temples next to the image of Shiva. Just Like Nana, she holds the Sun and Moon in her lifted hands.

Yuezhi-Moon Clan

Given her relationship to Shiva she can be associated with Shakti.

As the Shakti or Creatrix, She is known as "Adi Shakti" or "Adi Para Shakti" (i.e., Primordial Inconceivable Energy). On every plane of creation, energy manifests itself into all forms of matter. These are all thought to be infinite forms of the Para Shakti. But Her true form is unknown, and beyond human understanding. She is Anaadi (with no beginning, no ending) and Nitya (forever).

Shaktism regards Devi (lit., "the Goddess") as the Supreme Brahman itself with all other forms of divinity considered to be merely Her diverse manifestations. In the details of its philosophy and practice, Shaktism resembles Shaivism. However, Shaktas (Sanskrit: शक्त, Śakta, ), practitioners of Shaktism, focus most or all worship on Shakti, as the dynamic feminine aspect of the Supreme Divine. Shiva, the masculine aspect of divinity, is considered solely transcendent, and Shiva's worship is usually secondary

Beautiful mantra.

Why is it so popular, aside from intrinsically lovely lyrics and beautiful musicality. For one, it is of immeasurable benefit to all sentient beings. It is the very core of Avalokiteshvara’s compassionate mission. The immediate benefits, as taught in sutra and commentaries, are: purification of negative karmas, protection and healing.

The Great Compassion Mantra

Namo Ratna Trayaya

Nama Arya Jyana

Sagara Vairochana

Byuhara Jaya Tathagataya

Arahate Samyaksam Buddhaya

Namah Sarwa Tathagate Bhyayh Arahatda Bhayh

Samyaksam Buddhe Bhayh

Namah Arya Awalokite

Shoraya Bohisatwaya

Mahasatwaya

Maha Karunikaya

Tatyata Om Dhara Dhara

Dhiri Dhiri

Dhuru Dhuru

Iti Wit Je Chalee Chalee

Purachale Purachale

Kusume Kusama Wa Re

Ili Mili Chiti

Jwala Mapanaya Soha

buddhaweekly.com...

some might say that the least likely aspect though i suppose also the hardest to ignore.

Some would only really think you unlikely in a time like this one I reckon, with materialism at high tide and religion low. When people are still trapped in an absurd and rapidly crumbling judeo/materialistic belief system that isn't even supported by the God or science that they claim upholds it. Anyway some can go jump, I find you far more real than anyone else, absolutely magnificent and facinating Nanaya.

⚘

a reply to: primalfractal

Che Sara sara sri sri, we solved the mystery of Sara the Gypsy, the Nilakantha Dharani is generally concerned with good fate and destiny through compassion, and they could add "you will always solve all mysteries" to it.

a reply to: Madrusa

We did 😊😊

I stumbled my way through as usual 😂 but it was an adventure, and I feel strangely lighter for it.

Thank you ❤

a reply to: primalfractal

The essence of being down to Earth then, in conjunction with the essence of fire/air/ether/water, Eresh/Urash/Earth the place of establishment, Eresh-kigal the dirty little Queen of the Earth, the elements of magic and their binding and Sanskrit the language of choice.

From Earth Mother to Fertility Goddesses
Is Mother-Goddess Worship Still Alive?

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Interestingly, according to The New Encyclopædia Britannica, the original statue of this goddess “was made of gold, ebony, silver, and black stone.” A well-known statue of the Ephesian Artemis, dating from the second century C.E., shows her with black face, hands, and feet.

...

From Mother-Goddess to “Mother of God”

It was to the elders of the Christian congregation of Ephesus that the apostle Paul foretold an apostasy. He warned that apostates would rise up and speak “twisted things.” (Acts 20:17, 28-30) Among the ever-lurking dangers in Ephesus was a return to mother-goddess worship. Did this actually occur?

We read in the New Catholic Encyclopedia: “As a pilgrimage center, Ephesus was considered the burial site of [the apostle] John. . . . Another tradition, witnessed by the Council of Ephesus (431), links the Blessed Virgin Mary with St. John. The basilica in which the Council was held was called the Mary Church.” Another Catholic work (Théo​—Nouvelle encyclopédie catholique) speaks of a “plausible tradition” that Mary accompanied John to Ephesus, where she spent the rest of her life. Why is this supposed connection between Ephesus and Mary important to us today?

Let The New Encyclopædia Britannica answer: “Veneration of the mother of God received its impetus when the Christian Church became the imperial church under Constantine and the pagan masses streamed into the church. . . . Their piety and religious consciousness had been formed for millennia through the cult of the ‘great mother’ goddess and the ‘divine virgin,’ a development that led all the way from the old popular religions of Babylonia and Assyria.” What better place could there be than Ephesus for the “Christianization” of mother-goddess worship?

Thus, it was in Ephesus, in 431 C.E., that the so-called third ecumenical council pronounced Mary “Theotokos,” a Greek word meaning “God-bearer,” or “Mother of God.” The New Catholic Encyclopedia states: “The use of this title by the Church was undoubtedly decisive for the growth in later centuries of Marian doctrine and devotion.”

The ruins of the “Church of the Virgin Mary,” where this council met, can still be seen today on the site of ancient Ephesus. A chapel can also be visited that, according to a tradition, was the house where Mary lived and died. Pope Paul VI visited these Marian shrines in Ephesus in 1967.

Yes, Ephesus was the focal point for the transformation of pagan mother-goddess worship, such as Paul met up with in the first century, into fervent devotion to Mary as “Mother of God.” It is principally through devotion to Mary that mother-goddess worship has survived in the lands of Christendom.

Mother-Goddess Worship Still Alive

The Encyclopædia of Religion and Ethics cites Bible scholar W. M. Ramsay as reasoning that in “the 5th cent. the honour paid to the Virgin Mary at Ephesus was [a renewed] form of the old pagan Anatolian worship of the Virgin Mother.” The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology states: “The Catholic notions of the ‘mother of God’ and of the ‘queen of heaven,’ though later than the N[ew] T[estament], point to much earlier religio-historical roots in the East. . . . In the later veneration of Mary there are many traces of the heathen cult of the divine mother.”

These traces are too numerous and too detailed to be coincidental. The similarity between mother-and-child statues of the Virgin Mary and statues of pagan goddesses, such as Isis, cannot go unnoticed. The hundreds of statues and icons of the Black Madonna in Catholic churches throughout the world cannot fail to evoke the statue of Artemis. The work Théo​—Nouvelle encyclopédie catholique says of these Black Virgins: “They appear to have been a means for transferring to Mary what remained of popular devotion to Diana [Artemis] . . . or Cybele.” The Assumption Day processions of the Virgin Mary also find their prototype in the processions in honor of Cybele and Artemis.

The very titles given to Mary remind us of pagan mother-goddesses. Ishtar was hailed as the “Holy Virgin,” “my Lady,” and “the merciful mother who listens to prayer.” Isis and Astarte were called “Queen of Heaven.” Cybele was styled the “Mother of all the Blest.” All these titles, with slight variations, are applied to Mary.

Vatican II encouraged the cult of the “Blessed Virgin.” Pope John Paul II is well-known for his ardent devotion to Mary. During his extensive travels, he never misses an opportunity to visit Marian shrines, including that of the Black Madonna of Czestochowa, in Poland. He entrusted the whole world to Mary. It is, therefore, not surprising that under “Mother Goddess,” The New Encyclopædia Britannica writes: “The term also has been applied to figures as diverse as the so-called Stone Age Venuses and the Virgin Mary.”

But Roman Catholic veneration of Mary is not the only way mother-goddess worship has survived until our day. Curiously, supporters of the feminist movement have produced much literature on the worship of mother-goddesses. They believe that women have been sorely oppressed in this aggressively male-dominated world and that female-oriented worship reflects mankind’s aspirations for a less aggressive world. They appear also to believe that today the world would be a better and more peaceful place if it were more feminist-oriented.

However, worship of a mother-goddess did not bring peace in the ancient world, and it will not bring peace today. ...

Myth 4: God Is a Trinity (One Myth Leads to Another)
Myth 5: Mary Is the Mother of God
Myth 6: God Approves of the Use of Images and Icons in Worship

REJECT MYTHS, STICK TO THE TRUTH

What can we conclude from this brief review of myths that are still taught by many churches? These “tales [Greek, myʹthos] artfully spun” cannot rival the simple and comforting truths of the Bible.​—2 Peter 1:16, The New English Bible.

Therefore, with an open mind, do not hesitate to compare with God’s Word​—the source of truth—​what you have been taught. (John 17:17) Then, this promise will prove true in your case: “You will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”​—John 8:32.

“For there will be a period of time when they will not put up with the wholesome* [Or “healthful; beneficial.”] teaching, but according to their own desires, they will surround themselves with teachers to have their ears tickled.* [Or “to tell them what they want to hear.”] They will turn away from listening to the truth and give attention to false stories.” (2 Timothy 4:3,4)

“So we should no longer be children, tossed about as by waves and carried here and there by every wind of teaching by means of the trickery of men, by means of cunning in deceptive schemes.” (Ephesians 4:14)

“. . ., and it is difficult to explain, because you have become dull in your hearing. For although by now* [Lit., “in view of the time.”] you should be teachers, you again need someone to teach you from the beginning the elementary things of the sacred pronouncements of God, and you have gone back to needing milk, not solid food. For everyone who continues to feed on milk is unacquainted with the word of righteousness, for he is a young child. But solid food belongs to mature people, to those who through use have their powers of discernment* [Or “their perceptive powers.”] trained to distinguish both right and wrong.” (Hebrews 5:11-14)

a reply to: whereislogic

Among the ever-lurking dangers in Ephesus was a return to mother-goddess worship.

Why exactly would that be dangerous apart from making a Pharisee angry ?

Every people had such religious archetypes for their entire history because it was perfectly natural to do so and don't seem to have encountered any particular danger from it, that only arose with the ever-lurking Pharisees

originally posted by: Madrusa
...
Why exactly would that be dangerous apart from making a Pharisee angry ?

The danger spoken of in that sentence is speaking about (relates to) what's mentioned in the preceding sentences. Which was:

It was to the elders of the Christian congregation of Ephesus that the apostle Paul foretold an apostasy. He warned that apostates would rise up and speak “twisted things.” (Acts 20:17, 28-30)

This term in Greek (a·po·sta·siʹa) comes from the verb a·phiʹste·mi, literally meaning “stand away from.” The noun has the sense of “desertion, abandonment or rebellion.” (Ac 21:21) In the Christian Greek Scriptures it is used primarily with regard to religious defection; a withdrawal or abandonment of the true cause, worship, and service of God, and hence an abandonment of what one has previously professed and a total desertion of principles or faith.

It may properly be said that God’s Adversary was the first apostate, as is indicated by the name Satan. He caused the first human pair to apostatize. (Ge 3:1-15; Joh 8:44) Following the Flood, there was a rebellion against the words of the God of Noah. (Ge 11:1-9) Job later found it necessary to defend himself against the charge of apostasy on the part of his three supposed comforters. (Job 8:13; 15:34; 20:5) In his defense Job showed that God grants no audience to the apostate (Job 13:16), and he also showed the hopeless state of one cut off in apostasy. (Job 27:8; compare also Elihu’s statement at 34:30; 36:13.) In these cases the Hebrew noun cha·nephʹ is used, meaning “[one] alienated from God,” that is, an apostate. The related verb cha·nephʹ means “be inclined away from the right relation to God,” or “pollute, lead to apostasy.”​—Lexicon in Veteris Testamenti Libros, by L. Koehler and W. Baumgartner, Leiden, 1958, p. 317.

1 Tim. 4:1: “The inspired utterance says definitely that in later periods of time some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired utterances and teachings of demons.”

2 Thess. 2:3: “Let no one seduce you in any manner, because [the day of Jehovah] will not come unless the apostasy comes first and the man of lawlessness gets revealed, the son of destruction.” (more info about “the man of lawlessness” can be found in this comment in my thread “One myth leads to another”)

Acts 20:30: “From among you yourselves men will rise and speak twisted things to draw away the disciples after themselves.”

2 Pet. 2:1, 3: “There will also be false teachers among you. These very ones will quietly bring in destructive sects and will disown even the owner that bought them . . . Also, with covetousness they will exploit you with counterfeit words.”

Rom. 16:17, 18: “I exhort you, brothers, to keep your eye on those who cause divisions and occasions for stumbling contrary to the teaching that you have learned, and avoid them. . . . By smooth talk and complimentary speech they seduce the hearts of guileless ones.”

Prov. 11:9: “By his mouth the one who is an apostate brings his fellowman to ruin.”

Isa. 32:6: “The senseless one himself will speak mere senselessness, and his very heart will work at what is hurtful, to work at apostasy and to speak against Jehovah what is wayward, to cause the soul of the hungry one to go empty, and he causes even the thirsty one to go without drink itself.” (Compare Isaiah 65:13, 14.)

How serious is apostasy?

2 Pet. 2:1: “These very ones will quietly bring in destructive sects and will disown even the owner that bought them, bringing speedy destruction upon themselves.”

Job 13:16: “Before him [God] no apostate will come in.”

Heb. 6:4-6: “It is impossible as regards those who have once for all been enlightened, and who have tasted the heavenly free gift, and who have become partakers of holy spirit, and who have tasted the fine word of God and powers of the coming system of things, but who have fallen away [“if they then commit apostasy,” RS], to revive them again to repentance, because they impale the Son of God afresh for themselves and expose him to public shame.”

Also...

False Religion = Babylon the Great (Mother-Goddess worship is a part of Babylon the Great)

Babylon the Great (Reasoning From the Scriptures)

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Ancient Babylonian religious concepts and practices are found in religions worldwide

“Egypt, Persia, and Greece felt the influence of the Babylonian religion . . . The strong admixture of Semitic elements both in early Greek mythology and in Grecian cults is now so generally admitted by scholars as to require no further comment. These Semitic elements are to a large extent more specifically Babylonian.”—The Religion of Babylonia and Assyria (Boston, 1898), M. Jastrow, Jr., pp. 699, 700.

Their gods: There were triads of gods, and among their divinities were those representing various forces of nature and ones that exercised special influence in certain activities of mankind. (Babylonian and Assyrian Religion, Norman, Okla.; 1963, S. H. Hooke, pp. 14-40) “The Platonic trinity, itself merely a rearrangement of older trinities dating back to earlier peoples, appears to be the rational philosophic trinity of attributes that gave birth to the three hypostases or divine persons taught by the Christian churches. . . . This Greek philosopher’s [Plato’s] conception of the divine trinity . . . can be found in all the ancient [pagan] religions.”—Nouveau Dictionnaire Universel (Paris, 1865-1870), edited by M. Lachâtre, Vol. 2, p. 1467.

Use of images: “[In Mesopotamian religion] the role of the image was central in the cult as well as in private worship, as the wide distribution of cheap replicas of such images shows. Fundamentally, the deity was considered present in its image if it showed certain specific features and paraphernalia and was cared for in the appropriate manner.”—Ancient Mesopotamia—Portrait of a Dead Civilization (Chicago, 1964), A. L. Oppenheim, p. 184.

Belief regarding death: “Neither the people nor the leaders of religious thought [in Babylon] ever faced the possibility of the total annihilation of what once was called into existence. Death was a passage to another kind of life.”—The Religion of Babylonia and Assyria, p. 556.

Position of the priesthood: “The distinction between priest and layman is characteristic of this [Babylonian] religion.”—Encyclopædia Britannica (1948), Vol. 2, p. 861.

Practice of astrology, divination, magic, and sorcery: Historian A. H. Sayce writes: “[In] the religion of ancient Babylonia . . . every object and force of nature was supposed to have its zi or spirit, who could be controlled by the magical exorcisms of the Shaman, or sorcerer-priest.” (The History of Nations, New York, 1928, Vol. I, p. 96) “The Chaldeans [Babylonians] made great progress in the study of astronomy through an effort to discover the future in the stars. This art we call ‘astrology.’”—The Dawn of Civilization and Life in the Ancient East (Chicago, 1938), R. M. Engberg, p. 230.

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And as mentioned in the article from my previous comment:

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Interestingly, according to The New Encyclopædia Britannica, the original statue of this goddess “was made of gold, ebony, silver, and black stone.” A well-known statue of the Ephesian Artemis, dating from the second century C.E., shows her with black face, hands, and feet.

...

... Why is this supposed connection between Ephesus and Mary important to us today?

Let The New Encyclopædia Britannica answer: “Veneration of the mother of God received its impetus when the Christian Church became the imperial church under Constantine and the pagan masses streamed into the church. . . . Their piety and religious consciousness had been formed for millennia through the cult of the ‘great mother’ goddess and the ‘divine virgin,’ a development that led all the way from the old popular religions of Babylonia and Assyria.” What better place could there be than Ephesus for the “Christianization” of mother-goddess worship?

a reply to: Madrusa

From before (with some emphasis now):

These traces are too numerous and too detailed to be coincidental. The similarity between mother-and-child statues of the Virgin Mary and statues of pagan goddesses, such as Isis, cannot go unnoticed. The hundreds of statues and icons of the Black Madonna in Catholic churches throughout the world cannot fail to evoke the statue of Artemis. The work Théo​—Nouvelle encyclopédie catholique says of these Black Virgins: “They appear to have been a means for transferring to Mary what remained of popular devotion to Diana [Artemis] . . . or Cybele.” The Assumption Day processions of the Virgin Mary also find their prototype in the processions in honor of Cybele and Artemis.

The very titles given to Mary remind us of pagan mother-goddesses. Ishtar was hailed as the “Holy Virgin,” “my Lady,” and “the merciful mother who listens to prayer.” Isis and Astarte were called “Queen of Heaven.” Cybele was styled the “Mother of all the Blest.” All these titles, with slight variations, are applied to Mary.

Also don't miss the connection between:

Use of images: “[In Mesopotamian religion] the role of the image was central in the cult as well as in private worship, as the wide distribution of cheap replicas of such images shows. Fundamentally, the deity was considered present in its image if it showed certain specific features and paraphernalia and was cared for in the appropriate manner.”—Ancient Mesopotamia—Portrait of a Dead Civilization (Chicago, 1964), A. L. Oppenheim, p. 184.

Source: Babylon the Great (Reasoning From the Scriptures)

And:

Myth 6: God Approves of the Use of Images and Icons in Worship

And:

Myth 5: Mary Is the Mother of God

... It is the teaching about the Trinity that has sown confusion over the identity of Mary. By proclaiming her Theotokos (a Greek word meaning “God-bearer”), or “Mother of God,” the Council of Ephesus, in 431 C.E., set the stage for Mary worship. The city of Ephesus where this church council was held had for centuries been at the heart of idol worship celebrating the fertility goddess Artemis.

So it was that many aspects of the worship of the image of Artemis that “fell from heaven,” such as processions, were integrated into Mary worship. (Acts 19:35) Another practice that crept into Christian teaching was the use of images of Mary and others in worship.

...

FACT:

Mary was the mother of the Son of God, not of God himself. The Trinity myth gave birth to the worship of Mary as the Mother of God

“Look out,” wrote the apostle Paul to Christians living in the latter half of the first century C.E. What was he warning against? “Perhaps there may be someone who will carry you off as his prey through the philosophy and empty deception according to the tradition of men.”​—Colossians 2:8.

“be careful not to be entrapped after they have been annihilated from before you. Do not ask about their gods, saying, ‘How were these nations accustomed to serve their gods? I too will do the same.’”—Deuteronomy 12:30.

He is a liar! (part 2 of 2; playlist)

a reply to: whereislogic

The problem you have with this is that in order to define apostasy you will require an Old Testament basis, the exclusive worship of YHWH, that is not Christianity which was the end result of Hellenistic-Judaism, a hybrid that had been developing for several centuries previously, in terms of Hellenism there is no problem with Artemis of Ephesus, so you are either in favour of the hybrid religion or you are against it, from the orthodox Judaic perspective.

The fact that this was a Hellenistic-Judaic sect is evidenced through their taking of Hellenistic names, including Saul/Paul in order to gain acceptance, the fact the Gospels were written in Greek in the form of a Greek tragedy, that Paul utilizes Greek rhetoric, that the hybrid form was preached exclusively by Paul within Hellenistic-Judaic circles, that the principle centres of such thus became the first Christian, and above all that they incorporated elements of the Mystery Schools and adopted former religious sites.

The Jewish position is that Christianity is entirely Apostate, a breakaway hybrid form and they would consider your position baseless, the worship of Jehovah as YHWH in Anglo-Latinized form from a Christian perspective, it is the case that the more Protestants immersed themselves in the Old Testament the more issues they had with Christian tradition, thus today they are being directed toward a Post-Christian Judeo-centric Noahide position, they also will not be accepted as belonging to Israel which has an ethnic basis but only as their servants, that will be the intended final form of Jehovah worship, and goodbye Hellenism and the entire religious tradition of Europe, but we are expected to worry about the dangers of Goddess worship...

Also since when have Jehovah's witnesses allied with ganja smoking Black Israelite's and why should i be expected to care?

a reply to: whereislogic

Yes i'm fully aware that those elements were incorporated into Hellenistic-Judaism/Christianity, but you still haven't convinced me that the practise was dangerous, apart from the authors of the Old Testament being against such, what is their credibility?

Thank you for this glorious piece of insight.

As always, it is as food for our minds and our spirits.

You do well to share that which you bear witness to, thank you.


Much Love to you my friend.


^_^

originally posted by: Madrusa
a reply to: whereislogic

Also since when have Jehovah's witnesses allied with ganja smoking Black Israelite's and why should i be expected to care?

I just liked those Bob Marley songs because they mention Babylon, and I was talking about Babylon the Great, so I took a page out of Paul's 'book' (those songs may speak in a 'language', or way, that is closer to home for some people than what I posted from Reasoning from the Scriptures; especially since you already displayed the usual pattern of not putting much stock in what the Scriptures have to say, a pattern no doubt shared by others who may read this thread, who may also be more willing to hear out Bob Marley on the subject in a familiar song; even though he gets some things about the subject wrong):

“For though I am free from all people, I have made myself the slave to all, so that I may gain as many people as possible. To the Jews I became as a Jew in order to gain Jews; to those under law I became as under law, though I myself am not under law, in order to gain those under law. To those without law I became as without law, although I am not without law toward God but under law toward Christ, in order to gain those without law. To the weak I became weak, in order to gain the weak. I have become all things to people of all sorts, so that I might by all possible means save some. But I do all things for the sake of the good news, in order to share it with others.” (1 Cor 9:19-23)

To those without law I became as without law: The expression “those without law” refers to the Gentiles, or non-Jews, who were not under the Mosaic Law. When witnessing to a Greek audience in Athens, Paul took into account their thinking and spoke about the God unknown to them; he even quoted their own poets.​—Ac 17:22-34.

That last thing was basically what I was doing with the Bob Marley songs (song lyrics and musicians being similar, today's poets if you will; they get the same type of attention as the poets of old, shaping human thinking, opinion and culture).

Yes i'm fully aware that those elements were incorporated into Hellenistic-Judaism/Christianity, but you still haven't convinced me that the practise was dangerous, apart from the authors of the Old Testament being against such, what is their credibility?

Concerning apostasy, which was the subject there when the article talked about “the ever-lurking dangers in Ephesus” (identifying a return to mother-goddess worship as a way to fall into apostasy, one of the ever-lurking dangers or means by which the Christians especially in Ephesus could fall into apostasy, a withdrawal or abandonment of the true cause, worship, and service of God, and hence an abandonment of what one has previously professed and a total desertion of principles or faith), I actually quoted mostly from the Christian Greek Scriptures to elaborate on that subject. But as demonstrated you can find the warnings against apostasy throughout the Scriptures as well as why it's a bad thing that a Chistian (who is a worshipper and witness of Jehovah God just like Abraham, Moses, Jacob and Isaac) needs to guard for, a threat to their spiritual well-being.

I don't think this is the right thread to convince you to take the words of the Scriptures, both the Hebrew Scriptures and the Christian Greek Scriptures, more seriously when formulating your opinons and beliefs and to stop trying to separate the two as inconsistent or incompatible with one another (as if they are promoting 2 different relgions or forms of worship; Jesus is, and all the writers of the Christian Greek Scriptures were as much worshippers and witnesses of Jehovah God as the writers of the Hebrew Scriptures, a.k.a. the Old Testament; all of them were against apostasy and many of their writings contain warnings against this particular threat to one's spiritual well-being).

But even if you did ask me a similar question in a more appropiate thread concerning the credibility of the Scriptures as a whole, I don't really want to put too much effort into convincing you that these writings (and their writers) are credible and reliable, truthful, honest and educationally vital to one's spiritual well-being (i.e. when it contains warnings about certain threats to one's spirituality, true spirituality, one should take them to heart and act accordingly). Because I'm not getting the impression that you want to be convinced of this, nor are very openminded to the possibility that this may be so. I think it will be hard to convince you when you are so set against* the beneficial teachings of the Scriptures as a whole. (*: as I suspect you to be because of the impression I just described) Basically demonstrating the behaviour described at 2 Timothy 4:3,4 (or giving the clues therefore, sending such signals so to speak, giving that impression):

“For there will be a period of time when they will not put up with the wholesome* [Or “healthful; beneficial.”] teaching, but according to their own desires, they will surround themselves with teachers to have their ears tickled.* [Or “to tell them what they want to hear.”] They will turn away from listening to the truth and give attention to false stories.”

Quoted it before, just before something else from Paul about those who have become 'dull in their hearing' (Heb 5:11), i.e. they don't want to hear it (they have been dulled against it, can't process it anymore in any positive light, only looking for reasons to dismiss, disagree or see a "problem" with it, using your word, looking for a reason to doubt or challenge its credibility, truthfulness or beneficial value; possibly even twist its meaning when it's unpalatable to them as mental food*), “they will not put up with” it (the beneficial/wholesome teachings from the Scriptures that will be healthful to your mind, your spiritual and mental well-being). *: because it teaches them to abandon or give up something they don't want to give up, such as idolatry and false beliefs, false mother-goddess worship and the related veneration of religious icons such as statues used in processions and other ritualistic forms of false worship and counterfeit spirituality according to human religious tradition, doctrine and thinking rather than God's or the teachings and form of worship, works, that are in “harmony with God” (as outlined in his word, the Bible). General darkness (which they don't want to give up or abandon, usually because it gives them pleasure, or it pleases them or makes them feel good, even a false sense of granting them some form of spirituality, or culturality, a positive sense of belonging, “according to their own desires”):

“Now this is the basis for judgment: that the light has come into the world, but men* [Or “people.”] have loved the darkness rather than the light, for their works were wicked. [such as devotion to and even worship of false mother-goddesses or veneration of their religious icons such as statues that look like the Ephesian Artemis statues and depictions in this context] For whoever practices vile things hates the light and does not come to the light, so that his works may not be reproved.* [Or “exposed.”] But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that his works may be made manifest as having been done in harmony with God.” (John 3:19-21)

“Thus you make the word of God invalid by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like this.” (Jesus at Mark 7:13)