Hospitalizations and Deaths to be Dominated by Those Who Have Received Two Vaccines Doses

He is still better then Trudeau, whom would probably try to roll out an army.

originally posted by: Specimen88
He is still better then Trudeau, whom would probably try to roll out an army.

I tend to agree.

Trudeau is downright diabolical...Ford looks like a deer in the headlights during his news conferences. I get the impression that he really has no clue, and is just blindly following whatever his "health experts" tell him.

Trudeau = Tyrant
Ford = Fool

originally posted by: carewemust

originally posted by: IAMTAT
"IF YOU'VE DIED FROM TAKING THE COVID VACCINE...CALL THE LAW OFFICES OF..."

You may be kidding, but your headline will be real.

It will.
The Lawyers will be happy.

a reply to: schuyler

Sure, vaccinate the old folks first. That way if/when they die from adverse reactions to the vaccine we can just say "Oh, well they're old. They would have died anyways."

But at least they were vaccinated. It's better to die after being vaccinated than to die without it.

a reply to: mobiusmale

Anther deliberate omission? "This is discussed further in paragraphs 55 and 56."

a reply to: mobiusmale

The vaccine takes 28 days to elicit an immune response.

You don't get the jab and immediately become protected.

In those 28 days, you can still catch COVID-19, just as if you hadn't been vaccinated, because the vaccine won't be working just yet.

That is why they want to extend lockdowns.

All this crap about the vaccines being ineffective is utter BS. Although not perfect, they have all proven to be highly effective.

a reply to: mobiusmale

That is not what i am reading. What i am reading is that in the most at risk subgroups, the vaccine will not prevent deaths at the same rate that it does in other groups. So the "3rd wave" will be mostly vaccinated people who contracted it, and its worst symptoms, regardless. I could surmise that heavier dosing with the Johnson and Johnson vaccine would create this fear, as it is far less effective overall.

That said, the US does not expect a 3rd wave. So its all staring at tea leaves and chicken bones for now.

originally posted by: Atsbhct

Meanwhile, the people who are modelling these things are saying that 60-70% of this 3rd Wave (at least in terms of those who will die or end up in the hospital) is going to be caused by people who get two jabs - not by the virus itself!

a reply to: mobiusmale


This kind of makes sense though, right?

If the U.K. has vaccinated about 6 million people twice, and the vaccine doesn't prevent Covid really, it just lessens the symptoms and prevent spread (?maybe), then we wpuld assume that those with 2 doses are in the susceptible age brackets (elderly), and more likely to be hospitalized by even mild(er) Covid symptoms.

So, if everything is to be believed, these people will still be succumbing to Covid, it's just that they'll have had the two doses of vaccine.

Just like in the other Covid waves, hospitalizations and deaths were mostly elderly people and people with comorbidities, now the only difference is, those people got their vaccines.

So, 60-70% of deceased/hospitalized will have been vaccinated, but maybe the overall total will be less.

(And honestly who even knows with the ridiculous amount of information being released that "projections" and opinions.)

The vaccine doesn't prevent the spread until there are about 80% of the affected population immune to the virus. This is what 'herd immunity' means.

The vaccine takes 28 days to work. During those two weeks, it's like you haven't even been vaccinated.

The immune response kills the virus. It doesn't treat the symptoms.

a reply to: chr0naut

It has not been proven that all vaccines give any level of immunity. There are studies intimating that there is some level of protection from actual infection, and others that show that if infected after vaccinated, your chance of transmitting it are very low. Each of these studies will need to be vetted, repeated, and pass peer review. For now, its just information that gives cause for hope.

Johnson and Johnson is an exception, as it creates an immune response.

Throwing further wrenches int he works...there are other studies showing antibodies in people who have had neither a vaccine or been infected. This could be asymptomatic folks...or not. Its a real bitch, this virus. You cannot really even intuit/extrapolate due to the nature of how it acts. All you can really say for sure is what you do not know.

originally posted by: schuyler
Fact is this is a prediction, not reality, and y'all are not being very careful in your reading comprehension. The original is being intentionally inflammatory by sprinkling in anecdotal tales. In the US we are vaccinating about 4 million people a day. Old people (65+) are over 50% vaccinated because they were given early priority. The vaccine does not grant immortality. The people in the older age ranges are statistically likely to die, vaccinated or not, at a far higher rate than the rest of the population. This is the same fallacy we saw earlier on when anyone who died in a car accident, if they were found to have covid, was listed as a covid death. This was widely condemned as a misuse of statistics, and now you are using it bolster the case that the vaccine gives you covid.

Fake news, from ATS. What a surprise

Too bad nobody used the same logic on the "COVID pandemic" LTC FACILITIES represent less than 1% of the total population yet account for 34% of the deaths of the total less than 3% deaths. Again that's just LTC places this does not include the vast majority of deaths that are from outside nursing home which are elderly persons too.

Well some here tried to use that logic, and they were basically railed on as unsympathetic grandparent killers

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: chr0naut

It has not been proven that all vaccines give any level of immunity. There are studies intimating that there is some level of protection from actual infection, and others that show that if infected after vaccinated, your chance of transmitting it are very low. Each of these studies will need to be vetted, repeated, and pass peer review. For now, its just information that gives cause for hope.

Johnson and Johnson is an exception, as it creates an immune response.

Throwing further wrenches int he works...there are other studies showing antibodies in people who have had neither a vaccine or been infected. This could be asymptomatic folks...or not. Its a real bitch, this virus. You cannot really even intuit/extrapolate due to the nature of how it acts. All you can really say for sure is what you do not know.

This gets into the crux of the issue, if the vaccines are completely safe and effective ask the COVID vaccine manufacturers if they will now waive immunity from prosecution?

For perspective in less than 4 months of COVID vaccinations

There have been 26,959 adverse events reported that were life-threatening, permanently disabling, or death

For years (decade or more likely) and 11 different versions of the flu vaccine

There have been 40,330 adverse events reported that were life-threatening, permanently disabling, or death

Any rational intelligent person would conclude the flu vaccine is infinitely safer than a 4-5 month's old COVID vaccine

If you have an immune system that can fight everything off well, stimulating it could cause problems. That is why they put the dampening chemistry in the vaccines, the phosphocholine chemistry. But if you can break down choline quickly, it will not help much to buffer it.

This vaccine could kill off or disable those with real good immune systems, causing an overzealous reaction or stimulating an autoimmune reaction. Well, maybe that would be good for pharma companies if they triggered autoimmune issues like lupus, Rheumatoid issues, or spondylitis by jump starting genetic issues the people already have for those diseases. Good business is good business. Will this happen? Who knows, hyperactivating autoimmune diseases can be done if you already have the disease, even foods of some kind can cause them to get activated.

a reply to: putnam6

Where is your evidence for all this?

originally posted by: IAMTAT
"IF YOU'VE DIED FROM TAKING THE COVID VACCINE...CALL THE LAW OFFICES OF..."

Dicker & leever
Not just for divorces any more!

a reply to: putnam6

I believe you know the answer to that.....but here goes:

Drug makers are exempt from the full brunt of liability because they were asked to forego phase IV trials in the interest of public health. They could easily have refused, and put the COVID vaccine being released in 2022 or 2023. But they didn't, as it is believed (or was believed) that the risk to human life was too much.

So they did trials, but the phase IV trials are being done in the wild due to this. Because of that, they would be insane to accept responsibility.

As far as being vaccinated goes....as far as I know, it is not required. In the US it likely will never be required. Use your own risk analysis and mitigation strategies and make a personal decision based on that. Since I came from a generation that was still taught Caveat Emptor as a cornerstone of American thought, this doesn't bother me in the least.

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: putnam6

Where is your evidence for all this?

It's all there in the data search it might be over your head but using the same criteria for searching the covid vaccines, substitute the 11 versions on the seasonal flu vaccines


wonder.cdc.gov...

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
a reply to: putnam6

I believe you know the answer to that.....but here goes:

Drug makers are exempt from the full brunt of liability because they were asked to forego phase IV trials in the interest of public health. They could easily have refused, and put the COVID vaccine being released in 2022 or 2023. But they didn't, as it is believed (or was believed) that the risk to human life was too much.

So they did trials, but the phase IV trials are being done in the wild due to this. Because of that, they would be insane to accept responsibility.

As far as being vaccinated goes....as far as I know, it is not required. In the US it likely will never be required. Use your own risk analysis and mitigation strategies and make a personal decision based on that. Since I came from a generation that was still taught Caveat Emptor as a cornerstone of American thought, this doesn't bother me in the least.

Hey, and who says Latin classes don't pay off...

As long as the vaccine isn't mandatory or exclusionary and prohibitive in any way I'm okay.

originally posted by: putnam6

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: putnam6

Where is your evidence for all this?

It's all there in the data search it might be over your head but using the same criteria for searching the covid vaccines, substitute the 11 versions on the seasonal flu vaccines


wonder.cdc.gov...

Not over my head, thanks for being patronising.

Still a rubbish source though.

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2

originally posted by: putnam6

originally posted by: Oldcarpy2
a reply to: putnam6

Where is your evidence for all this?

It's all there in the data search it might be over your head but using the same criteria for searching the covid vaccines, substitute the 11 versions on the seasonal flu vaccines


wonder.cdc.gov...

Not over my head, thanks for being patronising.

Still a rubbish source though.

Sorry it wasn't from the Daily Mail got to be careful on the info from the CDC

Before you get your knickers in a bunch, have been showing this to other persons and have had to explain how to get into the search and what you can and can not do. Where you need to reset it

did you even search and look at the data? It did you get stuck trying to find the agree button

FWIW It's CDC adverse events reports on vaccines since the 90's kind of ironic they compile data that completely no value amirite?

here's the disclaimer from the site

VAERS accepts reports of adverse events and reactions that occur following vaccination. Healthcare providers, vaccine manufacturers, and the public can submit reports to VAERS. While very important in monitoring vaccine safety, VAERS reports alone cannot be used to determine if a vaccine caused or contributed to an adverse event or illness. The reports may contain information that is incomplete, inaccurate, coincidental, or unverifiable. Most reports to VAERS are voluntary, which means they are subject to biases. This creates specific limitations on how the data can be used scientifically. Data from VAERS reports should always be interpreted with these limitations in mind.
The strengths of VAERS are that it is national in scope and can quickly provide an early warning of a safety problem with a vaccine. As part of CDC and FDA's multi-system approach to post-licensure vaccine safety monitoring, VAERS is designed to rapidly detect unusual or unexpected patterns of adverse events, also known as "safety signals." If a safety signal is found in VAERS, further studies can be done in safety systems such as the CDC's Vaccine Safety Datalink (VSD) or the Clinical Immunization Safety Assessment (CISA) project. These systems do not have the same limitations as VAERS, and can better assess health risks and possible connections between adverse events and a vaccine.

Key considerations and limitations of VAERS data:

Vaccine providers are encouraged to report any clinically significant health problem following vaccination to VAERS, whether or not they believe the vaccine was the cause.
Reports may include incomplete, inaccurate, coincidental and unverified information.
The number of reports alone cannot be interpreted or used to reach conclusions about the existence, severity, frequency, or rates of problems associated with vaccines.
VAERS data are limited to vaccine adverse event reports received between 1990 and the most recent date for which data are available.
VAERS data do not represent all known safety information for a vaccine and should be interpreted in the context of other scientific information.